"Kill All The Wolves" and invasive species?

[Slick_36]

For all the angry people in here, wolves kill a lot of other animals, not just livestock. So they go on these hunts to keep the deer, elk and whatever else animals numbers up.

That's pure BS. Those are animals people hunt every year. If their numbers were so small that we need to eradicate another animal entirely to protect them, hunting them would have been outlawed years ago. And what else, they've evolved side by side in the same environment for millennia. Deer species don't suddenly need human assistance to survive, they're more than plentiful in North America where the wolves have always been hunting them. This is nothing but a cheap excuse for a pathetic hobby.

 

[Slick_36]

I know that. The animals got used to not having the Wolves around for so long so now that they're showing up again they do a real number on the deer and elk populations. Imagine one Wolfs diet, now imagine an entire pack.

The deer adapt. If not, they would be extinct by now. And if they die out from a natural predator, they deserve to die out.

 

[Terry Toughnut]

It's the same mentality that led to the extinction of the Thylacine. It is really a crime they are gone now.

And that shit only took like 90 years.

 

[Slick_36]

And that shit only took like 90 years.

It's a good thing they're not delicious too or we could have another dodo or Stellar's sea cow on our hands.

 

[Oeshon]

Not sure about wiping a species off the planet( other that rats of course) but i am for people protecting their livestock. And people should be able to shoot wild animals if they endanger thier stock in any way like coming on to their land but not just opening hunting them in the wild to the point of extinction.

Rats? Are you fucking kidding?

They are amazing animals. So cute and VERY intelligent.

Have you even spent time around a domesticated rat?




Watch these videos and tell me with a straight face you want to wipe rat from the face of the earth.

 

[Terry Toughnut]

"We need to hunt the wolves, so we can keep hunting the deer". Have I got it right?

 

[TripLikeIDo]

Its called nature my friend , predators usually hunt other animals
Of course they want to keep the deer and elk populations up, what are they going to mount on their wall if the wolves eat all their trophies

Not sure if you're trying to be funny or are just ignorant.

Wolves don't just act as predators. They don't just kill animals to eat them. It's part of their social structure to kill other animals to prove that they are the top dog, much as gang members kill people to rank within their gang.
Wolves will wipe out 200 sheep in one night-killing every single one, and just leaving them, maybe eating a couple.
They do the same thing to elk herds. It's not an 'urban legend' or 'redneck legend' it happens. They kill to prove themselves to other wolves, not only for food.
If you lived in an area that actually has wolves and livestock, you'd know this because many people have had similar stories and hunters who actually spend time in the habitat of elk and deer come across slaughter fields of deer and elk.

I'm not saying they should be hunted until extinction, but you should understand that there are pockets of areas in this country and Canada(particularly Montana, Wyoming, and southern Alberta) where there is a lot of ranching and a lot of wolves.

You can't add all of the livestock in Texas and Oklahoma to the cattle/wolves statistics, when there are no wolves there.

 

[DoctorGonzo]

Not sure if you're trying to be funny or are just ignorant.

Wolves don't just act as predators. They don't just kill animals to eat them. It's part of their social structure to kill other animals to prove that they are the top dog, much as gang members kill people to rank within their gang.
Wolves will wipe out 200 sheep in one night-killing every single one, and just leaving them, maybe eating a couple.
They do the same thing to elk herds. It's not an 'urban legend' or 'redneck legend' it happens. They kill to prove themselves to other wolves, not only for food.
If you lived in an area that actually has wolves and livestock, you'd know this because many people have had similar stories and hunters who actually spend time in the habitat of elk and deer come across slaughter fields of deer and elk.

I'm not saying they should be hunted until extinction, but you should understand that there are pockets of areas in this country and Canada(particularly Montana, Wyoming, and southern Alberta) where there is a lot of ranching and a lot of wolves.

You can't add all of the livestock in Texas and Oklahoma to the cattle statistics, when there are no wolves there.

Build a farm in the middle of an area where Wolves used to be the dominant species (humans are now), don't be surprised if wolves hang around and try to kill your livestock. The wolves don't see it as private land , nor should they

Again, the wolves killing elk and deer is nature at play, probably been happening for 1000's of years , how does this have any affect on humans other than hunting issues ?

Serious question, not trying to be a tool - Why is is bad if Wolves go and kill a herd of deer in their territory ? How does this have a negative effect on humans

 

[Cazadores]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kill-ALL-the-Wolves/490903504279336
So y'all...I was introduced to this fine group of folks by some friends on Facebook. They basically consider wolves an "invasive species" and get off on killing them. They say that wolves are destroying their way of life by killing their livestock, pets, and their ecosystem. Kind of like the folks on that Discovery show (I think) who hunt wild boars (not exactly, but kind of.)

So what do you guys have to say about this and these people? Do they have a case or are they just a bunch of sick fucks who enjoy killing these wolves a little too much? I've looked at the numbers they use to justify themselves (they are on the Facebook page) and the loss of livestock/pets/human injury don't seem to justify their hatred of wolves to me.

Didn't click the link because I don't want to, but wolves were re-introduced to Yellowstone? I think, or Idaho. They were all but instinct in these areas, Montana, Washington, and Idaho. Now they are destroying elk and deer populations. Destroying pets, cows, etc.

They aren't in the classic sense, invasive, but very much so when using common sense. The are causing farmers and states millions of dollars. Washington doesn't even allow you to hunt them. Season's in Idaho and Montana are pathetic. They need to be better controlled or ridden of.

 

[Slick_36]

If Gabe's graph is right, your argument means nothing Trip.

 

[TexasDrugAddict**]

Rats? Are you fucking kidding?

They are amazing animals. So cute and VERY intelligent.

Have you even spent time around a domesticated rat?




Watch these videos and tell me with a straight face you want to wipe rat from the face of the earth.

those vids are cute and all but I live in a state were rats still spread the Bubonic Plague, Black Death. And that shit scares the hell out of me. How many people died from that shit back in the day. I ain't about to be one of them.

 

[Cazadores]

That's pure BS. Those are animals people hunt every year. If their numbers were so small that we need to eradicate another animal entirely to protect them, hunting them would have been outlawed years ago. And what else, they've evolved side by side in the same environment for millennia. Deer species don't suddenly need human assistance to survive, they're more than plentiful in North America where the wolves have always been hunting them. This is nothing but a cheap excuse for a pathetic hobby.

Your understanding is minimal. Leave the conversation.

 

[Slick_36]

Didn't click the link because I don't want to, but wolves were re-introduced to Yellowstone? I think, or Idaho. They were all but instinct in these areas, Montana, Washington, and Idaho. Now they are destroying elk and deer populations. Destroying pets, cows, etc.

They aren't in the classic sense, invasive, but very much so when using common sense. The are causing farmers and states millions of dollars. Washington doesn't even allow you to hunt them. Season's in Idaho and Montana are pathetic. They need to be better controlled or ridden of.

The wolves that were there were driven out by doing this exact thing. Wolves haven't been gone 100 year, them being reintrodcued in to their natural land isn't going to do any damage.

 

[livingdeadmoose]

That's pure BS. Those are animals people hunt every year. If their numbers were so small that we need to eradicate another animal entirely to protect them, hunting them would have been outlawed years ago. And what else, they've evolved side by side in the same environment for millennia. Deer species don't suddenly need human assistance to survive, they're more than plentiful in North America where the wolves have always been hunting them. This is nothing but a cheap excuse for a pathetic hobby.

Was going to say this. Deer do not need protection. If anything they are pests that keep multiplying each year.

 

[Cazadores]

The wolves that were there were driven out by doing this exact thing. Wolves haven't been gone 100 year, them being reintrodcued in to their natural land isn't going to do any damage.

That is complete non sense. Elk herds have completely dwindled in Western Montana and Idaho, causing thousands of non residents not to buy tags anymore. WHich in turn the state is loosing millions of dollars.

There is no argument that wolves are devastating elk herds. You can argue all you want about what you think, but the fact is they are.

 

[TripLikeIDo]

Build a farm in the middle of an area where Wolves used to be the dominant species (humans are now), don't be surprised if wolves hang around and try to kill your livestock. The wolves don't see it as private land , nor should they

Again, the wolves killing elk and deer is nature at play, probably been happening for 1000's of years , how does this have any affect on humans other than hunting issues ?

Serious question, not trying to be a tool - Why is is bad if Wolves go and kill a herd of deer in their territory ? How does this have a negative effect on humans

I couldn't care less about the deer to tell you the truth, I've had to pull many half dead ones off of the roads after they've been hit by cars. The deer killing doesn't have a negative effect on humans, I was using that to illustrate the point that wolves don't just kill for food. Elk, on the other hand, are not nearly as prevalent as deer and so it's much more 'touchy' when people come across herds that have been slaughtered by wolves.
Yes, it's nature at play, as you say, but on the other hand when wolves are 're-introduced' into areas that are NOW inhabited by other species and livestock, it's not quite as 'natural' as it would sound like from the outside.

 

[Cazadores]

http://idahostatejournal.com/news/local/article_639aacda-1232-11df-87ef-001cc4c03286.html

“From a wildlife perspective, there’s no question that this growing wolf population has had a devastating impact on our elk populations and our moose populations,” he said. “Our scientists’ and biologists’ studies on all these collared packs indicate that each wolf eats an average of 16 elk per year, so if you do the math and are being conservative, our 1,000 wolves are eating 16,000 elk per year.”

He said 295 sheep, 76 cattle and 14 dogs were also confirmed to have been killed by wolves in 2009.

Budge said the state’s biggest and historically most stable elk herd in the Lolo Pass area has gone from 11,000-13,000 elk to under 2,000 since wolves began to inhabit the area.

“Our out-of-state hunting numbers were down 25 percent in 2008, 31 percent in 2009,” he said.

This doesn't include elk wolves kill for the fuck of it, or elk that die from stress and exhaustion that can't make it through the winters.

 

[DoctorGonzo]

I couldn't care less about the deer to tell you the truth, I've had to pull many half dead ones off of the roads after they've been hit by cars. The deer killing doesn't have a negative effect on humans, I was using that to illustrate the point that wolves don't just kill for food. Elk, on the other hand, are not nearly as prevalent as deer and so it's much more 'touchy' when people come across herds that have been slaughtered by wolves.
Yes, it's nature at play, as you say, but on the other hand when wolves are 're-introduced' into areas that are NOW inhabited by other species and livestock, it's not quite as 'natural' as it would sound like from the outside.

Isn't the only reason wolves were absent from these areas is from being hunted and driven out of them by humans in the first place ?

I suggest that it was unnatural for them to be absent from these areas, re introducing them is actually restoring the balance

Sounds like you just a beef with wolves my man as you have even admitted that there is nothing wrong with wolves killing deers etc, it's nature .

Are you a farmer or something?

 

[Slick_36]

Interesting Caz. Instead of calling me ignorant, just post something like that and it speaks for itself. All I can say is, we threw off nature in the first place. If the elk can't survive a predator they've spent thousands and thousands of years living with, then they deserve to be wiped out in that area.

 

[Cazadores]

Interesting Caz. Instead of calling me ignorant, just post something like that and it speaks for itself. All I can say is, we threw off nature in the first place. If the elk can't survive a predator they've spent thousands and thousands of years living with, then they deserve to be wiped out in that area.

It would balance out eventually, but neither elk or wolves would have healthy numbers do to humans hunting.

The problem is money. States are losing millions. I for one love to hunt so I am bias, but this is effecting states economies. States like Montana and Idaho generate a lot of income off of non resident tags. If game numbers suck, then non residents won't come.

You were wrong in your assessment that they do not have an affect, but if it is your beliefe that nature should take it's course regardless of economic impact, then that is fine with me.