Khamzat Chimaev vs Gordon Ryan in MMA if Khamzat played 'fair' and grappled. How would it go?

[TheMaster]

I'm asking this here because most of UFC forum dont know who Gordon Ryan is.
Obviously the issue of Khamzat controlling where the fight goes and forcing Ryan to stand and take a beating would be there and theres almost nothing Ryan could do about that.

Lets say however there was a 'gentlemans agreement' from Khamzat to use his normal style and grapple with Ryan. Would he be able to implement his game?
Strikes on the ground would be in play, would Khamzat still be considered a favourite in this scenario of fight grappling with Ryan in MMA rules, and how might it play out?

 

[randomg1t]

gordon wraps him into a pretzel.

obviously, MMA is a different game and strikes play a big role, but ryan isn't an exclusively guard playing grappler. khamzat shoots a takedown and ryan immediately works to sweep him or entangle his legs. once he's on top, khamzat's experience and strikes aren't really a factor anymore, i imagine ryan submits him very quickly.

that said, the premise is silly. if they were to have an MMA fight, chimaev would beat the living piss out of him standing before shooting any takedowns. he wouldn't willingly follow him to the ground unless ryan was hurt.

 

[TheMaster]

gordon wraps him into a pretzel.

obviously, MMA is a different game and strikes play a big role, but ryan isn't an exclusively guard playing grappler. khamzat shoots a takedown and ryan immediately works to sweep him or entangle his legs. once he's on top, khamzat's experience and strikes aren't really a factor anymore, i imagine ryan submits him very quickly.

Dont buy it sorry.
You think Ryan can just reverse that wrestling control like that? No chance, especially not in MMA.
Then theres the factor that he has to be very careful as if he loses position, he gets elbow smashed or punched so he cant jist relax and roll as freely as in pure grappling.

Lesnar showed how a far superior amateur wrestling pedigree can control and smash a far superior pure submission grappler when he dominated and beat up Mir on the ground.

 

[RemyR]

Khamzat would be tapped by whatever sub Gordon feels like getting that day.

I really think you guys don't understand the difference between MMA grappling and wrestling or sub grappling.

In wrestling Khamzat would get tech'd by guys like Sadaev quickly.

In sub grappling guys like Gordon would tap him and be ready for the next match.

Now if you put those two in with Khamzat where he can throw strikes then yeah he has the advantage

Edit: saw you mentioned striking is allowed. Yeah then I'd favor Khamzat.

 

[randomg1t]

Dont buy it sorry.
You think Ryan can just reverse that wrestling control like that? No chance, especially not in MMA.
Then theres the factor that he has to be very careful as if he loses position, he gets elbow smashed or punched so he cant jist relax and roll as freely as in pure grappling.

Lesnar showed how a far superior amateur wrestling pedigree can control and smash a far superior pure submission grappler when he dominated and beat up Mir on the ground.

yeah you're probably right, the best no gi grappler in the world probably couldn't submit khamzat because chimaev just outgrappled the jiu jitsu prodigy that is DDP and brock lesnar beat up frank mir 15 years ago.

 

[shunyata]

MMA rules it looks like Fluffy vs Roman with Ryan getting beat up standing and Khamzat refusing to engage in guard or leg entanglements.

BJJ rules Ryan by heelhook.

Simple as that.

 

[ChickenBrother]

These fantasy handicap match ups are always kind of wack. So Chimaev is allowed to throw strikes and fight MMA style on the ground (which he's the UFC champ at) but Ryan is forced to fight in a ruleset he doesn't even train for, using his skills from another sport? LOL WTF.

I'd like to see this match take place underwater with SCUBA gear on. That way both guys really have to bite down on their mouthpieces if they want to keep breathing. That tests their grit. Also there's barbed razor wire on all the octagon walls with rigged explosives if you touch them so no escape no surrender. Also Ryan is using a rebreather so no air bubbles because he knows Chimaev don't want dat smoke. But Khamzat has to eat a cheeseburger right before the fight. Also there's a Money in the Bank suitcase hanging just above the water on a platform with a large disco ball, for whichever man can climb the ladder first. This is a test of who really wants it more. If Jardine's last name were 'Johnson', the nickname 'Dean of Mean' would make no sense!

 

[shunyata]

These fantasy handicap match ups are always kind of wack. So Chimaev is allowed to throw strikes and fight MMA style on the ground (which he's the UFC champ at) but Ryan is forced to fight in a ruleset he doesn't even train for, using his skills from another sport? LOL WTF.

I'd like to see this match take place underwater with SCUBA gear on. That way both guys really have to bite down on their mouthpieces if they want to keep breathing. That tests their grit. Also there's barbed razor wire on all the octagon walls with rigged explosives if you touch them so no escape no surrender. Also Ryan is using a rebreather so no air bubbles because he knows Chimaev don't want dat smoke. Also Khamzat has to eat a cheeseburger right before the fight. Also there's a Money in the Bank suitcase hanging just above the water on a platform with a large disco ball on it, for whichever man can climb the ladder first. This is a test of who really wants it more. If Jardine's last name were 'Johnson', the nickname 'Dean of Mean' would make no sense!

Car jitsu, slaps and elbow strikes allowed.

Rotate driver vs passenger seat every round, 5 round fight.

Moneyberg is in the back seat but doing nothing, and if you knock him out without getting subbed it's a $500k bonus.

 

[TheMaster]

yeah you're probably right, the best no gi grappler in the world probably couldn't submit khamzat because chimaev just outgrappled the jiu jitsu prodigy that is DDP and brock lesnar beat up frank mir 15 years ago.

What basis is there to think Ryan could do better than Mir on the ground in MMA?

These fantasy handicap match ups are always kind of wack. So Chimaev is allowed to throw strikes and fight MMA style on the ground (which he's the UFC champ at) but Ryan is forced to fight in a ruleset he doesn't even train for, using his skills from another sport? LOL WTF.

Well he literally just commented about the fight.



I guess as far as you're concerned then he should just STFU since its a different ruleset, he actually has no idea whats going on he just thinks he does but they may as well fight underwater thats all his opinions worth in MMA.

Or is that hes allowed to talk about MMA but hes just too precious to fight in it even against a grappler willing to grapple with him according to you?

Edit: saw you mentioned striking is allowed. Yeah then I'd favor Khamzat.

So you'd favor Khamzat in MMA even if he chose to grapple with Ryan which was the scenario. Why?

 

[randomg1t]

What basis is there to think Ryan could do better than Mir on the ground in MMA?

the fact that ryan is much better than mir on the ground?

 

[RemyR]

So you'd favor Khamzat in MMA even if he chose to grapple with Ryan which was the scenario. Why?

Because it's a different game. And I say that as someone who competed in MMA and grappled 25+ years. Gordon's chances go up if you give him a chance to train with strikes on the ground but if you take them right now and have them fight under that ruleset then I'd favor Khamzat.

 

[mattemate]

What basis is there to think Ryan could do better than Mir on the ground in MMA?

It's a fair question.
1. Ryan is ten times the grappler Mir is.
2. The fight would not be at HW. Lesnar was cutting from over 300 to make 265. He was 30 pounds heavier than Mir on fight night. Khamzat wouldn't have that advantage.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Well he literally just commented about the fight.
View attachment 1109692


I guess as far as you're concerned then he should just STFU since its a different ruleset, he actually has no idea whats going on he just thinks he does but they may as well fight underwater thats all his opinions worth in MMA.

Or is that hes allowed to talk about MMA but hes just too precious to fight in it even against a grappler willing to grapple with him according to you?

A jacked white boy can't show some love for another natty jacked white boy in another sport without rustling jimmies? I'd be with you if Ryan said Chimaev's ground game sucks and he could clown him in MMA, but this isn't it. Dude is just paying respect because real recognize real. Correct me if I'm wrong but Gordon has yet to talk shit with MMA guys about prospective match ups in MMA - if he has, I will stand corrected.

 

[TheMaster]

It's a fair question.
1. Ryan is ten times the grappler Mir is.

Thats a huge exaggeration. Also Mir is the far superior MMA submission grappler until and unless proven otherwise. We dont even know if Ryan would fold from basic GnP which would make this interesting.

2. The fight would not be at HW. Lesnar was cutting from over 300 to make 265. He was 30 pounds heavier than Mir on fight night. Khamzat wouldn't have that advantage.

No, but he is the far more skilled wrestler lets remember. Its about whether that control comboned with the possibility of strikes on the ground changed the variables enough.

???
A jacked white boy can't show some love for another natty jacked white boy in another sport without rustling jimmies?

When did Chimaev become 'jacked' and 'white' lmao.

I'd be with you if Ryan said Chimaev's ground game sucks and he could clown him in MMA, but this isn't it. Dude is just paying respect because real recognize real. Correct me if I'm wrong but Gordon has yet to talk shit with MMA guys about prospective match ups in MMA - if he has, I will stand corrected.

You're the one who acted like it was a ridiculous comparison and question when it clearly isn't.

Nobody actually cares about pure sub grappling remember aside from a small niche. BJJ, and by extension Gordan Ryan are only relevent because of the success of BJJers, Sambo'ists and Catch guys in MMA. So the question of if a highly successful submission grappler, can compete against another grappler in the sport in which BJJ and Sambo made a name from in the modern era is very relevent.

 

[mattemate]

Thats a huge exaggeration. Also Mir is the far superior MMA submission grappler until and unless proven otherwise. We dont even know if Ryan would fold from basic GnP which would make this interesting.



No, but he is the far more skilled wrestler lets remember. Its about whether that control comboned with the possibility of strikes on the ground changed the variables enough.



When did Chimaev become 'jacked' and 'white' lmao.


You're the one who acted like it was a ridiculous comparison and question when it clearly isn't.

Nobody actually cares about pure sub grappling remember aside from a small niche. BJJ, and by extension Gordan Ryan are only relevent because of the success of BJJers, Sambo'ists and Catch guys in MMA. So the question of if a highly successful submission grappler, can compete against another grappler in the sport in which BJJ and Sambo made a name from in the modern era is very relevent.

Half the reason I keep coming back to F12 is to see your retarded takes, Master. SMH.

 

[TheMaster]

Half the reason I keep coming back to F12 is to see your retarded takes, Master. SMH.

Saying that Ryan is "10x the grappler Mir is (in MMA)" when he has never competed in it is peak retard, so you don't need to go anywhere just analyze your own thoughts and speak them, and the entertainment begins.

 

[mattemate]

Saying that Ryan is "10x the grappler Mir is (in MMA)" when he has never competed in it is peak retard, so you don't need to go anywhere just analyze your own thoughts and speak them, and the entertainment begins.

I didn't say in MMA. But there's no reason to think his grappling wouldn't transfer over. Everyone here knows you avoid getting on the mat with good grapplers like Israel avoids deporting philes for prosecution.

 

[The Apostle]

I like how in Master’s OP he asks, how might this make believe scenario I’ve created play out?

And then @randomg1t provides a thoughtful response.

And then Master proceeds to basically tell him/us, NOPE. This is how it plays out.

What are you trying to accomplish here? And in your other threads? To promote Wang Chung? We’ve seen so many practitioners in the UFC these last 30 plus years. It must be too deadly.

 

[TheMaster]

I like how in Master’s OP he asks, how might this make believe scenario I’ve created play out?

And then @randomg1t provides a thoughtful response.

And then Master proceeds to basically tell him/us, NOPE. This is how it plays out.

What is your issue exactly.

He shared his opinion, I disagreed.
We both then tried to justify our positions. Thats what the thread is about, and I find it an interesting question regards the inteface of submission grappling without strikes vs grappling in MMA.

Theres also been some posters with long grappling and amateur MMA fight experience @RemyR who agree with me as they know that MMA grappling is a different beast.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Khazmat would get destroyed in submission grappling.

The complete opposite in mma or vale tudo though.

BJJ and submission grappling is a game and not a fight.

Gordan Ryan would get destroyed in mma.