• Xenforo Cloud is upgrading us to version 2.3.8 on Monday February 16th, 2026 at 12:00 AM PST. Expect a temporary downtime during this process. More info here

Kentucky Derby...and Beyond?

thanks as always Shark. Just hit up Governor Malibu to win at +2000, 20 to win 400, might add more to it if it stays static or gets better. 5 to win 100 on Creator for now. Who's your second pick as a win bet btw?
 
thanks as always Shark. Just hit up Governor Malibu to win at +2000, 20 to win 400, might add more to it if it stays static or gets better. 5 to win 100 on Creator for now. Who's your second pick as a win bet btw?

That's a tough question because there isn't one that checks nearly as many boxes as Governor Malibu. But maybe Destin? Unlike in the Derby and the Preakness, betting Pletcher in the Belmont is never a bad thing as that's the one classic race in which he's had really good success in over the years. Destin also has the right running style for the race, and could be especially so this year with most of the field made up of deep closers. I'm not crazy about his pedigree and previous performances for the Belmont distance as far as stamina goes, but if they crawl through the first half mile in 49-50 seconds then this one could be dangerous. A half mile pace like that isn't all that unrealistic with this field either.
 
You are a gentleman and a Scholar. Thanks for the feedback my friend.
 
While there are some things to like about Destin, I just noticed the thorograph pattern of him over the last three races and it raises eyebrows to say the least;

7, -0 3/4, 2 (P, T, O)

Very concerning if looking to back him. Not only did he run an off race in his last effort on the sheets after coming into the race after a big top before that, but it's also very close to the classic "0-2" pattern and almost in the literal sense. That 0-2 pattern being one of the strongest indicators on thorograph that a big negative race (or X race) is coming next time out for a horse. Not always. But it's a very good indicator and especially so when a horse runs a huge new top in the previous race. Just something to keep in mind. For the record, Shagaf was the closest thing to an 0-2 pattern going into the Derby with his 5, 4, 5 1/2 pattern going in. He finished the Derby in last place.
 
More great info from Sharkey. Thanks man

I threw a unit on Governor Malibu at +2000 as well
 
More great info from Sharkey. Thanks man

I threw a unit on Governor Malibu at +2000 as well

Cheers man.

Since we're all going to be on Governor Malibu, I thought I'd point out something from his performance in the Peter Pan that I really liked. If you watch the race video you can see that Unified hits the 6F point in the race at 1:14 of the video. At that point Governor Malibu is 6 lengths behind Unified according to the race charts and is asked to run by the jockey at the exact point they hit that pole. There was 3F left in the race at that point. Unified hit the 6F pole with a time of 1:10.25 and then finished the race in a time of 1:47.14. Basically Unified ran the last 3F in sub 37 seconds (36.89). That's pretty impressive for him. But even though Unified ran a sub 37 second final 3F, Governor Malibu gained more than 5 lengths on him during that portion of the race. If you use the standard equation that 5 lengths equals 1 second then Governor Malibu ran about a 36 second final 3F if not slightly below. Now granted the track was obviously playing on the fast side that day in order to get the 1:47 final time. But a 36 second final 3F is very, very impressive for a 3 year-old horse no matter what the track condition is. To put that time into context and compared to some of the other 3 year-olds this year, Creator had the fastest final 3F in a 9F prep race on dirt this spring when he ran a 37.70 in the Arkansas Derby. Nyquist ran a 37.82 final 3F in the Florida Derby. Exaggerator ran a 38.09 in the Santa Anita Derby. Gun Runner ran a 38.12 in the Louisiana Derby. Brody's Cause ran a 37.92 in the Blue Grass. Etc., etc. Track condition notwithstanding, no horse this spring came even close to running a final 3F as fast as Governor Malibu did in the Peter Pan. And again, he was being pushed to run by the jockey the whole way from that point and Governor Malibu was able to sustain that run through to the line. As he did in the race of his before that when he ran his final 3F in apx 37 seconds flat while being pushed throughout that whole portion to eventually get his nose in front of Awesome Speed at the line when he really didn't have any business doing so considering the early pace of the race. This horse has a pair of lungs on him that is certainly going to help him in a race like the Belmont.

 
Not that any of us should care much right now, but a few more horses have potentially added their names to the Belmont field for next Saturday. Trojan Nation is going to take another shot at it after finishing up the track in the Derby. And then two horses trained by Dallas Stewart are also looking to take a shot. Forever d'Oro and Seeking the Soul. I don't know much about either of those two right now save for that they're both lightly raced horses who only just broke their maidens last time out in close finishes. I'll look into them a little to see if there is something there with either, although they're probably both way overmatched anyways.

I also did some rather geeky pedigree observations earlier today with these Belmont runners and how they compared to recent history, and I saw a trend in the pedigrees of the recent board hitters that seemed to jump out to me. I then looked at the three other classic races for 3 year-olds (Derby, Preakness, and Travers) to see if that trend existed there as well, and yep, it did. I didn't crunch the data or anything, but there's a line in the pedigree that stood out above all others to me. It had to do with AP Indy being bred to a mare sired or grand sired by Mr Prospector. Little did I know that that is actually a very well known line in the pedigree for classic distance races. It's what they call a nick in the breeding sheds, and it is apparently the highest rated one in the breeding game currently. In fact 7 of the top 15 sires in North America today have that nick in their pedigree line, yet only 4 of this year's 13 potential Belmont runners have it in their's. Governor Malibu has it 2 generations back, as does Suddenbreakingnews. Both Creator and Lani have it 3 generations back. That's it.

Frosted had this nick in his pedigree last year when he finished 2nd in the Belmont and 3rd in the Travers. Diving Rod finished 3rd in the Preakness last year with it in his pedigree. California Chrome had the year before when he won the Derby and Preakness. Tonalist had it the same year when he won the Belmont. Orb had it in 2013 when he won the Derby and then finished 3rd in the Belmont and Travers. Alpha had it in 2012 when he won the Travers. Nehro had it when finishing 2nd in the Derby in 2011. Astrology had it when finishing 3rd in the Preakness that year. Stay Thirsty had it that year when finishing 2nd in the Belmont and winning the Travers. Rattlesnake Bridge was 2nd in the Travers with it. Super Saver and Ice Box finished 1-2 in the 2010 Derby with it. First Dude had it when he hit the board in the Preakness, Belmont and the Travers. As did Fly Down when hitting the board in both the Belmont and Travers. I might be forgetting some as well.

That's as far as I went back, but it's pretty crazy how often that line in the pedigree comes up for successful classic distance runners. And while I haven't compiled any data yet to illustrate the impact that line has had compared to the amount of starters with it, some quick preliminary looks at a few of the Derbys shows that there wasn't a whole lot runners that had that nick in their pedigree lines. I'd guess maybe 15%, maybe 20% at most comprised of this in the fields over the last half dozen years since it's only been the last few years where breeders have recognized it's success. Yet they've probably hit the board in these classic races maybe 35% or 40% of the time. Pretty huge impact value I'm guessing, although I'm going to compile that data in the next couple of days since I'm a geek and all.
 
A couple of examples of what I mean above;

http://www.pedigreequery.com/tonalist2

This is the pedigree of the Belmont winner a couple of years ago with Tonalist. If you look 3 generations back AP Indy was bred to a mare who was sired by Mr Prospector. They in turn produced Pulpit who in turn sired Tapit. That's the same line that Creator and Lani have for this year's race on top of the sire side.


Here's the pedigree of Bluegrass Cat, who finished 2nd in the Derby, Belmont and Travers in 2006. He had that AP Indy-Mr Prospector nick 2 generations back on the female side of his pedigree;

http://www.pedigreequery.com/bluegrass+cat2

Which was similar to what the 2010 Derby winner, Super Saver had. Super Saver and Bluegrass Cat actually shared the same grand sire (AP Indy) and grand dam (Get Lucky) on the female side of the pedigree;

http://www.pedigreequery.com/super+saver3


Fly Down had that nick in his pedigree when he finished 2nd in both the Belmont and Travers in 2010, and he shares the same sire line as does Suddenbreakingnews does this year;

http://www.pedigreequery.com/fly+down

http://www.pedigreequery.com/suddenbreakingnews


Orb also had that nick in his pedigree when winning the Derby in 2013 then finishing 3rd in both the Belmont and Travers. Governor Malibu shares the same sire line as Orb does;

http://www.pedigreequery.com/orb7

http://www.pedigreequery.com/governor+malibu


Both Governor Malibu and Suddenbreakingnews are also the only two horses in this year's field that have 4 Belmont winners in their past 4 generations of their pedigree from what I recall without going through them all again. In fact I'm not sure there's another horse in the field who has more than 2 over their past 4 generations. With Governor Malibu having Easy Goer on the tail side of his female line he also has the three fastest Belmont winners in history at 12F in his genes. Easy Goer was bred to Classy Cathy, who was a multiple G1 winner at classic distances herself. They produced a daughter who was bred to Gulch, who finished 3rd in the Belmont and just missed 2nd by a nose. They produced a daughter who was bred to Langfuhr, who was a sire of multiple G1 winners at 12F, and who himself was sired by a Belmont winner sire in Danzig. There's class and stamina all over the place in Governor Malibu's pedigree. Both top and bottom.
 
Last edited:
Here's Governor Malibu crushing Cherry Wine in a workout yesterday morning. Or maybe it was Creator who got crushed. Hmm. Not sure. It's hard to tell with all the greys out there nowadays. At least we know that it wasn't Lani since the grey in the video isn't running along with a huge erection between his legs. Hey, Mohaymen is a grey, so maybe...Nah.

All kidding aside, Governor Malibu couldn't have looked any better in this workout I don't think. Ears perked up the whole way and paying attention all throughout. Switching leads on command. No wasted motion whatsoever in any parts of his body. A strong gallop out after the wire with his ears straight up waiting to be asked to do more. He has a really long stride as well and judging by the way he seems to be digging into the ground with his front hoofs, he seems to quite like the surface he's running on. As well he should since this is his home track and he's spent hours & hours exercising and running on it already.

 
Interesting little twist for the Exaggerator team as they head into the Belmont;


"ARCADIA, Calif. -- Preakness Stakes-winning jockey Kent Desormeaux has gone to alcohol rehabilitation but will return in time to ride Exaggerator in the Belmont Stakes next weekend..."

http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/sto...ormeaux-enters-rehab-plans-run-belmont-stakes


I wasn't planning on using this horse anyways considering what price he'll be next week, but the jockey entering rehab can't be a good thing. Not sure it's that much of a bad thing either depending. But obviously not a good thing. I'd be more worried about some of the puzzling rides Desormeaux has given his horses in the Belmont throughout his career, including the one just last year on Keen Ice which boggled my mind. Seriously watch this shit from about the 2:00 mark to about the 2:20 mark and pay attention to the jockey with the green & yellow silks and green cap. He has the horse in great position about two lengths back and ready to start the late running at the 2 minute mark. But instead of pushing Keen Ice for his late run he proceeds to stand up on the horse, pull the reigns back, and takes the horse 10 lengths back as they hit the stretch. Like seriously. What the fuck was that? I can't remember ever seeing something like that before in a race that big. Or any race actually. But maybe the above bit of news on Desormeaux helps "explain" what he was thinking there.

 
thanks as always Shark. Just hit up Governor Malibu to win at +2000, 20 to win 400, might add more to it if it stays static or gets better. 5 to win 100 on Creator for now. Who's your second pick as a win bet btw?

It's so damn hard trying to find a second horse to go with Governor Malibu for this race, Blunt. I keep looking and looking, yet nobody is standing out to me. Horses like Creator, Destin, Stradivari, Brody's Cause, Suddenbreakingnews, Wild About Deb and even the goofball Lani have things that intrigue me for the race, but not enough to jump out and make me want to play them any more than another one in that group of seven. Don't really care for Exaggerator (price mainly), Cherry Wine or these three new additions over the weekend.

I think I may end up joining you on the Creator bandwagon again if I play a second horse in the race. I liked him a lot going into the Derby, and if you cross a line through that race considering the circumstances, I guess I could like him again for the Belmont somewhat if he gets a little more involved early in the race. We have also had luck with him this year too, so there's that for whatever it's worth. Plus I've had good success in the Belmont betting those WinStar horses like Creator in the race. I only played two of them ever in the Belmont from what I remember and made a profit both times I did. I was on Drosslemeyer when he won in 2010 and then Commissioner a couple of years ago when he got nosed out of the win at really long odds. If a double dose of luck in the past with Creator and then with his racing team is a handicapping angle then I just might use it. Why the hell not if I can't really find any reason to separate a lot of these horses.
 
Joel Rosario, who'll be riding Governor Malibu on Saturday, has competed in 5 Belmont Stakes races during his riding career. These are his results in his 5 attempts at the race;

2010 - 9th with Make Music For Me
2011 - 3rd with Brilliant Speed
2013 - 3rd with Orb
2014 - 1st with Tonalist
2015 - 2nd with Frosted

A record of 1-1-2 in 5 races over his career so far, including hitting the board each of the last 4 times he had a Belmont ride.


His overall stats in recent years at the Belmont track;

2012 - 6th overall in win % and 4th overall in top 3 %
2013 - 2nd overall in win % and 1st overall in top 3 %
2014 - 1st overall in win % and 2nd overall in top 3 %
2015 - 3rd overall in win % and 5th overall in top 3 %
2016 - 2nd overall in win % and 1st overall in top 3 % (so far)


With the Belmont track being like no other just due to the sheer size of it, it always helps to have a rider who knows the track inside and out, and has had success over it. Most tracks in the US tend to be a mile in length or just over. The Belmont track is a mile and a half in circumference. A huge difference to what many riders are used to as far as positioning of the poles, points in the race and things like that.
 
thanks as always Shark. Just hit up Governor Malibu to win at +2000, 20 to win 400, might add more to it if it stays static or gets better. 5 to win 100 on Creator for now. Who's your second pick as a win bet btw?

If your getting 20/1 still it may be time to add just a little more on your Creator bet, my friend;

 
Creator doing a little ROFLMAO this morning when he got the news of Gettysburg entry;

 
According to David Grening of DRF, Gettysburg has been transferred over to the Steve Asmussen barn for this race, who, as we all know, is the trainer of Creator.
 
With he the addition of Gettysburg it looks like we'll have a field of 13 for this year's Belmont, although there's still a couple of days to go before the post position draw;

Brody’s Cause, Cherry Wine, Creator, Destin, Exaggerator, Forever d’Oro, Gettysburg, Governor Malibu, Lani, Seeking the Soul, Stradivari, Suddenbreakingnews, and Trojan Nation.

That's a nice field and it's pretty cool that so many are showing up for this race even though a few of them probably have no business running in this race. But every horse that's entered obviously helps the prices of whatever horse you land on. Even the no-hopers are going to get bet a little bit too.

This new addition from this morning of a legitimate pace setter also upgrades some of these guys in my eyes as far as their potential to finish well, and then also downgrades a couple as well. Stradivari in particular may be hurt the most by the addition of Gettysburg.
 
Interesting video on Governor Malibu posted by a horse trainer on youtube, especially the part about having Buckpasser in the X passing position with two possible scenarios;

 
Good to hear. Really looking forward to the race. Also thinking about putting a little something on Creator since he's still +2000.
 
Back
Top