Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie's last MMA fight

[Osiris007]

I'd have to find the thread but someone posted a couple gifs of ken actually properly performing the leg roll move he was trying to do. Looks akward in the Rich gif because Ken about 1/3rd of the way hesitates/bails because he sees the one 2 combo coming

This has come up a lot but I don't see a conspiracy here, just Ken failing to roll into a leg lock.

 

[CerebralKnievel]

I think Chael genuinely fucked up because he rated his wrestling and bjj Brown belt enough to give it a go. Shammy is shady as fuck. The Sak fight was suspect, the kimbo fight was suspect, the Ross Clifton fight was a massive mismatch and then he took a dive from a apparent nut shot that didn't land against Royce and protested after to sell it. Royce didn't even have his hands wrapped for the fight. Look into it lol

 

[MMAProfessional]

It wasn’t fixed but the fighter selection and brackets definitely helped Royce win those.

Perfect storm. I watched the old UFC's back. The Judo guys and wrestlers were the only that had somewhat of a chance.

 

[Steve-French]

Both are pioneers of the sport but I wouldn’t put it past either one to be involved in a fixed match or to cheat. Royce fought dirty and PEDs and Ken’s slip vs Rich was super suspect.

watch his feet. What the hell was he doing ???

Ken was rolling for a leg lock here.

 

[TheNinja]

Ken was rolling for a leg lock here.

Was he trying to snap his own ankles first? -

Maybe he was just confused b/c he was moving right when a punch was thrown and his body sort of reacted weird? It just looked really fishy. I'm sure the UFC wasn't in on any fixing of fights though. I don't believe they would ever do it and I don't believe 2 fighters would get together. I could see 1 fighter throwing a fight on his/her own idea b/c of betting or something, but unliklely.

 

[Ancient Warrior]

Nope, the Gracies are just hypocrites. Royce said afterwards it's a fight and there are no rules, but Renzo cried like a baby when he got kneed on the ground vs. Frank Shamrock.

Renzo and Royce used to hate each other.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Both are pioneers of the sport but I wouldn’t put it past either one to be involved in a fixed match or to cheat. Royce fought dirty and PEDs and Ken’s slip vs Rich was super suspect.

watch his feet. What the hell was he doing ???

I hate when people post this stupid shit. He was dropping for an ankle lock then froze mod way because the punch was coming. The hesitation makes it look awkward

 

[Coconutwater]

Perfect storm. I watched the old UFC's back. The Judo guys and wrestlers were the only that had somewhat of a chance.

Rorion Gracie made sure the toughest fighters fought each other first, to ensure that they would be banged up before facing Royce.

A big help was giving Royce an easier first fight, because everyone else was certain to take some damage and come in less than perfect against him.

 

[gono btw]

In the first fight, Ken was overconfident (he owns this) and was relatively inexperienced. Royce made him pay. Ken does have a legitimate grievance that they wouldn't let him wear his wrestling shoes but they nevertheless let Royce wear his gi. Not sure it would have mattered, but that rule/condition is pretty one-sided. 1-0 Royce.

In the second fight, Ken fought conservatively (he was afraid to lose again) but also believed that he could just wear Royce down over time and then have his way. People who trained with Ken said his cardio was, at that time, phenomenal. If the fight had had judges, Ken would have won. Had the fight been allowed to go on longer, Ken would have eventually mauled Royce, who could barely stand under his own power by the end. 1-1

The third fight, 20+ years later, is pretty much irrelevant. It sucks that it ended the way it did, but anyone expecting a classic was pretty uninformed.

Ken and Royce put the UFC and MMA on the map, are both all-time greats and pioneers of the sport, and their rivalry was compelling--so much so that they were able to leverage it for a huge payday decades after either was relevant anymore.

hmmm...yeahhh... shoes... it´s a myth, tho... they were allowed, but... no kickin´... not sure why Wayne Shamrock whined about it since his skill set at the time included much more knees than kicks...

Spoiler: UFC 1 - Rules

Meanwhile, Wayne fought more than 'conservatively' in the 2nd fight, there was a real lack of 'ambition' in that performance, for someone who had been preparin´for this fight [incl. special judo trainin´...]

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-ufc-5-requiem-for-the-vale-tudo-era.3947367/

Had there been Judges, the decisive technical sequence [Wayne´s punch in the extra time] wouldnt have been there, tho...

It wasn’t fixed but the fighter selection and brackets definitely helped Royce win those.

hmmm... Brackets... which UFC exactly?... since it cant realistically be UFC 1...

 

[Coconutwater]

hmmm...yeahhh... shoes... it´s a myth, tho... they were allowed, but... no kickin´... not sure why Wayne Shamrock whined about it since his skill set at the time included much more knees than kicks...

Spoiler: UFC 1 - Rules

View attachment 814220

Meanwhile, Wayne fought more than 'conservatively' in the 2nd fight, there was a real lack of 'ambition' in that performance, for someone who had been preparin´for this fight [incl. special judo trainin´...]

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-ufc-5-requiem-for-the-vale-tudo-era.3947367/

Had there been Judges, the decisive technical sequence [Wayne´s punch in the extra time] wouldnt have been there, tho...


hmmm... Brackets... which UFC exactly?... since it cant realistically be UFC 1...

Doesn’t Royce fighting a one-gloved boxer gain an advantage versus Gordeau who had his foot and hand damaged against a sumo wrestler? Plus Shamrock faced the volatile Pat Smith, who has a style that naturally would injure opponents, it’s Shamrock’s credit that he heel hooked him so early in the bout.

The first fight makes a big difference in a tournament.

Plus Ichihara and say.... Ron Van Clief were easier first opponents. Those may be blind drawings from a hat, but he did get lucky, in all three instances. UFC 3 he faced Kimo and couldn’t continue as you know.

 

[CinemaKingdom]

Ken has lots of fights with weird endings, Royce 3, Franklin, Sakuraba, Kimbo etc. None of it matters anyway since Shamrock tested positive for PEDs after the fight so he was cheating anyway.

 

[gono btw]

Doesn’t Royce fighting a one-gloved boxer gain an advantage versus Gordeau who had his foot and hand damaged against a sumo wrestler? Plus Shamrock faced the volatile Pat Smith, who has a style that naturally would injure opponents, it’s Shamrock’s credit that he heel hooked him so early in the bout.

Hence, you´re talkin´about UFC 1... which is a contradiction since Wayne Shamrock, the 2nd favourite to win it all, was in the very same bracket...

Your narrative would have had a better case if you were talkin´about UFC 3, tho..

 

[Bork Neslar]

Fishy, like everything related to the Gracies.

 

[Coconutwater]

Hence, you´re talkin´about UFC 1... which is a contradiction since Wayne Shamrock, the 2nd favourite to win it all, was in the very same bracket...

Your narrative would have had a better case if you were talkin´about UFC 3, tho..

Even same side of bracket, Royce’s first fight was a cake walk. Putting the most dangerous threat to Royce at the time, (Shamrock) against Pat Smith was simply hoping he’d get hurt or marginalized.

Royce won all those fights legitimately, but Rorion knew how to help make sure that would be the likely outcome.

 

[DarthChen731]

Shit like that is why I can't take Bellator seriously

 

[gono btw]

Even same side of bracket, Royce’s first fight was a cake walk. Putting the most dangerous threat to Royce at the time, (Shamrock) against Pat Smith was simply hoping he’d get hurt or marginalized.

Royce won all those fights legitimately, but Rorion knew how to help make sure that would be the likely outcome.

well, if we are to believe Art Davie, he was the one who really organized that whole tournament, Horion had lil input [knowledge/experience of the American market].

Now... that said... there´s a decent possibility of a Horion interference in that very 1st Rd... Not because One-Glove was the easiest 'prey' [Tuli was hardly more dangerous], but because he represented the most famous American martial art during that night (well, they claimed they wanted to pay tribute to that failed attempt by Helio to lure Joe Louis into the ring... pure propaganda).

Overall, the fact that Wayne was in the very same bracket disqualifies that narrative... He was by far the most dangerous for them in that Tournament... Their best interests would have been to put Wayne, Pat, Gordeau & either Zane or Kevin in the same bracket...

 

[ThunderL1ps]

Ken threw a bunch of fights way before Sapp ever did.

 

[Coconutwater]

well, if we are to believe Art Davie, he was the one who really organized that whole tournament, Horion had lil input [knowledge/experience of the American market].

Now... that said... there´s a decent possibility of a Horion interference in that very 1st Rd... Not because One-Glove was the easiest 'prey' [Tuli was hardly more dangerous], but because he represented the most famous American martial art during that night (well, they claimed they wanted to pay tribute to that failed attempt by Helio to lure Joe Louis into the ring... pure propaganda).

Overall, the fact that Wayne was in the very same bracker disqualifies that narrative... He was by far the most dangerous for them in that Tournament... Their best interests would have been to put Wayne, Pat, Gordeau & either Zane or Kevin in the same bracket...

The late Tuli wasn’t more dangerous to a Royce, but more annoying to other fighters as they would be forced to strike a 300 pound man and hurt themselves, as what happened to Gordeau who had a tooth lodged in his foot...

By bracket I don’t necessarily mean simply that, I mean... who does the fighter face FIRST? Royce was lucky his first fight was a one-gloved boxer who never grappled, a 5’7” Karate master who doesn’t grapple and an aging, white haired man in Apollo Creed shorts.

 

[gono btw]

The late Tuli wasn’t more dangerous to a Royce, but more annoying to other fighters as they would be forced to strike a 300 pound man and hurt themselves, as what happened to Gordeau who had a tooth lodged in his foot...

By bracket I don’t necessarily mean simply that, I mean... who does the fighter face FIRST? Royce was lucky his first fight was a one-gloved boxer who never grappled, a 5’7” Karate master who doesn’t grapple and an aging, white haired man in Apollo Creed shorts.

yeah, but Tuli in the 1st Rd would have potentially less dangerous for Hoyce...

The problem with your narrative is that you still overlook the fact that Wayne, the 2nd favourite to win it all [and who forced them to make special drills to counter his skill set... the only fighter to receive a special attention], was in the very same bracket... Their best interest, if we follow your narrative, would have been to put him in the other bracket & face the most dangerous fighters, be it Gordeau or Pat in those 1st 2 Rds.

 

[Coconutwater]

yeah, but Tuli in the 1st Rd would have potentially less dangerous for Hoyce...

The problem with your narrative is that you still overlook the fact that Wayne, the 2nd favourite to win it all [and who forced them to make special drills to counter his skill set... the only fighter to receive a special attention], was in the very same bracket... Their best interest, if we follow your narrative, would have been to put him in the other bracket & face the most dangerous fighters, be it Gordeau or Pat in those 1st 2 Rds.

But Ken’s first fight was with Pat Smith, who was dangerous (to ken, it he got caught slipping or took a kick or punch, possible.)

Sumo guy isn’t dangerous but a hard nut to crack for anyone but Royce...

This meant Gordeau who was the semifinalist, would most likely be hurt against Royce, which he was...

I’m not saying Royce wouldn’t kill Gordeau 100% fresh, I’m saying it didn’t help Gerard was less than perfect going in.