Judo or Jiu jitsu?

[spiral]

I'm a wrestler and throwing people can be pretty addicting and fun. BJJ can be a real pain in the ass where nothing happens.

Oh judo can be that sometimes too, when one guy refuses to take risks and keep straigth arms. But I tend to think that judo is deep down more *violent* than BJJ, which is why it is so fun. You get really tough doing judo, even if you're a noob, because of constantly being thrown and falling, and constantly pushing and pulling and squatting. I doubt BJJ is on the same level, but I've never tried so maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, the two are clearly complementary.

 

[Yozigi]

as a wrestler id say bjj. im probably going to start bjj soon... somewhere in la unless i cant find anything north. anyways, judo is too familiar, and seems like the "weaker" of the grappling forms (if you have been wrestling)

"Weaker"? Oh lol the ignorance.

 

[Nickynoneck]

All depends on what you want ? are looking to go into mma ?? or judo/bjj competitions ??

mma i would just go with bjj seeing you have a wrestling back ground .

judo/bjj comps i would do judo for a year and then bjj .

grappling tournaments are prob more up your alley then judo seeing the difference in rules but judo would be good to take for a year to learn throws , grappling basics down and learn the art of grip fighting .

 

[georgejjr]

as a wrestler id say bjj. im probably going to start bjj soon... somewhere in la unless i cant find anything north. anyways, judo is too familiar, and seems like the "weaker" of the grappling forms (if you have been wrestling)

You haven't done judo, have you? I went into judo after wrestling (wrestled in college), nothing weaker about it at a competitive level. The main difference is that in judo you've got a lot of recreational guys, who are generally out of shape compared to wrestlers. But if you fight in higher level tournaments (belts mean nothing in judo, its rated by tournaments) everyone's strong and fit.

The idea that judo is "gentle" and doesn't use strength or speed sounds great, but has nothing to do with real competition judo. Or put it this way, if judo was weaker, every wrestler who couldn't make the olympic team would put on a gi and go to the olympics in judo, picking up an easy olympic medal for the trophy case.

Funnily enough, a lot of judo guys who've never done wrestling think that wresting is weak because the only wrestlers they've seen are guys who just wrestled in high school. For that matter, I've played football against the guys at the local park, and none of them are strong and fast ... the NFL is full of guys like that, right :icon_twis

The only major difference I've seen between judo and wrestling is the gi. Judo is jacket wrestling. Which to do depends upon whether what you're going to do involves wearing jackets or not. If you're going to compete in gi based BJJ, judo is better. If you're going to do no-gi submission fighting or MMA, wrestling is better. If you're interested in self-defense and you live in a northern climate where people wear jackets, judo is better. if you're interested in self-defense and live in a souther climate where people don't wear jackets, wrestling is better.

 

[Shaolin Bushido]

You haven't done judo, have you? I went into judo after wrestling (wrestled in college), nothing weaker about it at a competitive level. The main difference is that in judo you've got a lot of recreational guys, who are generally out of shape compared to wrestlers. But if you fight in higher level tournaments (belts mean nothing in judo, its rated by tournaments) everyone's strong and fit.

The idea that judo is "gentle" and doesn't use strength or speed sounds great, but has nothing to do with real competition judo. Or put it this way, if judo was weaker, every wrestler who couldn't make the olympic team would put on a gi and go to the olympics in judo, picking up an easy olympic medal for the trophy case.

Funnily enough, a lot of judo guys who've never done wrestling think that wresting is weak because the only wrestlers they've seen are guys who just wrestled in high school. For that matter, I've played football against the guys at the local park, and none of them are strong and fast ... the NFL is full of guys like that, right :icon_twis

The only major difference I've seen between judo and wrestling is the gi. Judo is jacket wrestling. Which to do depends upon whether what you're going to do involves wearing jackets or not. If you're going to compete in gi based BJJ, judo is better. If you're going to do no-gi submission fighting or MMA, wrestling is better. If you're interested in self-defense and you live in a northern climate where people wear jackets, judo is better. if you're interested in self-defense and live in a souther climate where people don't wear jackets, wrestling is better.

There was a great article in USA Today, a few days ago about Marano(I forget her first name) ... she missed going to the Olympics in Judo since she hurt her knee and couldn't wear a brace .... so she switched to Wrestling and has been a multiple national champion!

Marano trying to pin down an Olympic dream - USATODAY.com

USATODAY.com - With family in center ring, wrestler's life is no circus

 

[georgejjr]

There was a great article in USA Today, a few days ago about Marano(I forget her first name) ... she missed going to the Olympics in Judo since she hurt her knee and couldn't wear a brace .... so she switched to Wrestling and has been a multiple national champion!

Marano trying to pin down an Olympic dream - USATODAY.com

USATODAY.com - With family in center ring, wrestler's life is no circus

Wouldn't happen in mens judo and wrestling though, in either direction. The talent pool is too deep ...

 

[Iosephus]

You haven't done judo, have you? I went into judo after wrestling (wrestled in college), nothing weaker about it at a competitive level. The main difference is that in judo you've got a lot of recreational guys, who are generally out of shape compared to wrestlers. But if you fight in higher level tournaments (belts mean nothing in judo, its rated by tournaments) everyone's strong and fit.

The idea that judo is "gentle" and doesn't use strength or speed sounds great, but has nothing to do with real competition judo. Or put it this way, if judo was weaker, every wrestler who couldn't make the olympic team would put on a gi and go to the olympics in judo, picking up an easy olympic medal for the trophy case.

Funnily enough, a lot of judo guys who've never done wrestling think that wresting is weak because the only wrestlers they've seen are guys who just wrestled in high school. For that matter, I've played football against the guys at the local park, and none of them are strong and fast ... the NFL is full of guys like that, right :icon_twis

The only major difference I've seen between judo and wrestling is the gi. Judo is jacket wrestling. Which to do depends upon whether what you're going to do involves wearing jackets or not. If you're going to compete in gi based BJJ, judo is better. If you're going to do no-gi submission fighting or MMA, wrestling is better. If you're interested in self-defenseand you live in a northern climate where people wear jackets, judo is better. if you're interested in self-defense and live in a souther climate where people don't wear jackets, wrestling is better.

judo is too familiar. which is why i say go the bjj route

 

[Shaolin Bushido]

Wouldn't happen in mens judo and wrestling though, in either direction. The talent pool is too deep ...

Mike Swain, Shonie Carter and Steven Mocco were both very good wrestlers and judoka ... I hope that wasn't posted already in this thread but it prolly was.

 

[Davebjj]

Jiu Jitsu will teach you how to actually finish off opponents because it focuses on ending the fight.
We had a few brown belts come into our school and I was tapping them with ease. They had been training for almost 7 years too. Judo teaches the takedown but very little guard work

 

[georgejjr]

Mike Swain, Shonie Carter and Steven Mocco were both very good wrestlers and judoka ... I hope that wasn't posted already in this thread but it prolly was.

But as far as I remember, they started both relatively young (Jimmy Pedro could be added to that list too), rather than getting to the top in one and then starting the other.

 

[IChinaManI]

Jiu Jitsu will teach you how to actually finish off opponents because it focuses on ending the fight.
We had a few brown belts come into our school and I was tapping them with ease. They had been training for almost 7 years too. Judo teaches the takedown but very little guard work

Bullcrap, depends on the club. And um judo doesn't teach you how to finish the fight? Submissions, and powerful throws aren't enough to end fights. Not to mention if you're talking about the street, you don't think planting someones head in the concrete with osoto is enough to end the fight? Anyways I would say it depends on what you want to do. no gi, do no gi bjj. If gi, then do judo and crosstrain bjj.

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

Bullcrap, depends on the club. And um judo doesn't teach you how to finish the fight? Submissions, and powerful throws aren't enough to end fights. Not to mention if you're talking about the street, you don't think planting someones head in the concrete with osoto is enough to end the fight? Anyways I would say it depends on what you want to do. no gi, do no gi bjj. If gi, then do judo and crosstrain bjj.

As a practitioner of both judo and a BJJ, I disagree. Only a very few judo clubs approach the submission skills taught in most BJJ clubs. I've been submitting shodans and above since I was a white belt in BJJ. Judo is not as well-rounded as you think.

 

[pittfrog]

Frodo, to be fair, I think that depends on the level of the players. On the ground, average recreational BJJ player>average recreational judo player; there's nothing surprising about that. However, higher level competitive players are something else entirely. The two best shodans known to both of us are not pushovers on the ground.

 

[Defy]

jui jitsu

 

[georgejjr]

As a practitioner of both judo and a BJJ, I disagree. Only a very few judo clubs approach the submission skills taught in most BJJ clubs. I've been submitting shodans and above since I was a white belt in BJJ. Judo is not as well-rounded as you think.

I agree. Judo is to submissions as BJJ is to throws/takedowns. There are exceptions, BJJ'ers who can throw well and judoka who can submit well, but for the most part neither BJJ nor judo have a complete gi based grappling game. You have to combine the two.

You can see this when people start to cross train. Judo black belts get submitted by blues when they start BJJ (not all of course ... Kenzio Nakamura, world judo champion went for 10 minutes on the ground against Roger Gracie without being submitted ... reported in Gracie Mag if you want to look it up). BJJ purples who start cross training in judo constantly get thrown by green belts (sankyu) ... again there are exceptions, Jacare would give a good account of himself if you threw him into an international level judo match.

The easiest way to see this is just to watch the trouble pure BJJ'ers have in getting guys to the ground, and the inability of pure judo guys to do anything but hold their opponents down when they get the throw. To be well rounded you have to cross train - there's no one in MMA who would argue this, with the possible exception of Rorian Gracie :icon_chee

 

[ssckp86]

judo is too familiar. which is why i say go the bjj route

What does this mean?
Are you saying that everyone knows Judo?
If you were to go into a competitive Judo competition, you would win b/c you are familiar with it?

 

[Shaolin Bushido]

But as far as I remember, they started both relatively young (Jimmy Pedro could be added to that list too), rather than getting to the top in one and then starting the other.

You're right on there.

 

[Drew Foster]

If no cross training is allowed, I'm with ICHINAMANI.

Although I am passionate about BJJ and it's changed my life for the best, I must say Judo is a better art for ending a street fight (IF BIG IF you also train withut a Gi). The subs aren't as technical, but nobody cranks a sub like a Judo guy period! Plus an experience Judo guy won't let there b any subs. They'll direct the throw so tht the attacker gets maimed/crippled/pralyzed/dead. Just like how in BJJ we can control the degree of the pain/injury of the sub, in Judo we can control he danger level of the throw. If I eeded to, I could kill a man with certain throws and their would be no ground fight.

I ALSO HATE BJJ VS JUDO THREADS! I skippd to page 4 I must admit. CROSS TRAIN BOTH! UFC 1 is over This isnt the 80's. Style vs. style is DEAD. Thank God....


P.S. Judo is a little more well rounded than BJJ. Not better or worse! Just a little more well rounded.It has standup and ground. Most BJJ schols have NO powerful throws. Some takedowns yes, but not many fight-ending throws. And even though Judo guys aren't as technical on the ground. They're stronger and more explosive than "just BJJ guys IN GENERAL" and they crank subs for the BREAK everytime to END the fight. Ask Aoki and Camarillo (no offense Dave, it's actually a compliment! :icon_chee)

 

[VeganMike]

my judo club has many days where we don't even do any standup work and only work on mat work.

 

[Drew Foster]

my judo club has many days where we don't even do any standup work and only work on mat work.

yea in jud clubs it varies so much. some do a lot o mat work, some do hardly any


thats why i hate these debates