News Joshua vs Ngannou Official March 8th Saudi Arabia

[joeson]

AJ has been wobbled on several occasions but that isn't what Ngannou said. He specifically said "floored" and Joshua has only been down against a couple opponents (though he was down 4x against Ruiz in their first fight). Altogether AJ has hit the canvas a total of 5 times in his career. Fury has been down 7 times against a bunch of different opponents. Two of them were feather-fisted (Pajkic & Cunningham, the latter of which was a natural cruiserweight).

It’s just his perception. He hasn’t watched all of AJ’s fights. His viewpoint is based on the popular opinion, AJ has a weak chin and Fury gets dropped but always gets back up. There’s some truth to this perception regardless if AJ has been down fewer times than Fury. AJ does get hit and he does get hurt in a lot of his fights.

The relevance of this perception is that Francis did not really unload on Fury even after hurting him because he was worried that Fury would simply keep getting back up. The perception that AJ is hittable and won’t be as resilient means Francis is much more likely to be aggressive and will go for the kill if he thinks AJ is hurt

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

It’s just his perception. He hasn’t watched all of AJ’s fights. His viewpoint is based on the popular opinion, AJ has a weak chin and Fury gets dropped but always gets back up. There’s some truth to this perception regardless if AJ has been down fewer times than Fury. AJ does get hit and he does get hurt in a lot of his fights.

The relevance of this perception is that Francis did not really unload on Fury even after hurting him because he was worried that Fury would simply keep getting back up. The perception that AJ is hittable and won’t be as resilient means Francis is much more likely to be aggressive and will go for the kill if he thinks AJ is hurt

It's better to get buzzed/wobbled in there than get dropped though. Joshua at least stays on his feet more. He's also never been dropped by feather-fisted fighters. Cunningham was 44 lbs lighter than Fury and a cruiserweight when he put him on his ass. Pajkic was 25 lbs lighter when he decked him. The size difference alone in Fury vs Cunningham was staggering. Fury always gets back up but he's not harder to floor.

The perception is that neither Joshua nor Fury have sturdy chins. What Fury has to make up for it is his resilience/recovery as you noted. However, he's still losing those rounds he got dropped in (usually they're scored as automatic 10-8s unless there were point deductions or Fury was able to score a knockdown himself to cancel it out).

 

[Dr Fong]

AJ has been wobbled on several occasions but that isn't what Ngannou said. He specifically said "floored" and Joshua has only been down against a couple opponents (though he was down 4x against Ruiz in their first fight). Altogether AJ has hit the canvas a total of 5 times in his career. Fury has been down 7 times against a bunch of different opponents. Two of them were feather-fisted (Pajkic & Cunningham, the latter of which was a natural cruiserweight).

The Cunningham feather-fist talking point is annoying when you actually look at the punch he landed. It would have not only dropped basically everyone, but outright stopped most too. It was a bomb.

Other than that I don't disagree. AJ isn't particularly chinny and Fury isn't that hard to drop - his recovery is excellent though.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

The Cunningham feather-fist talking point is annoying when you actually look at the punch he landed. It would have not only dropped basically everyone, but outright stopped most too. It was a bomb.

Other than that I don't disagree. AJ isn't particularly chinny and Fury isn't that hard to drop - his recovery is excellent though.

That's speculation. Cunningham never could punch regardless of how hard the punch looks. Pajkic was also a lot smaller than Fury and feather-fisted and his shot didn't look all that powerful. Fury still went down like a sack of potatoes.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Let's take a look at the Pajkic knockdown. It was a standard overhand right that landed on the button. The shot wasn't a bomb, it looked labored, though it was a solid punch that landed flush. Not only is the guy that threw it feather-fisted he's much smaller than Fury. He only has a 29% KO rate.

 

[joeson]

It's better to get buzzed/wobbled in there than get dropped though. Joshua at least stays on his feet more. He's also never been dropped by feather-fisted fighters. Cunningham was 44 lbs lighter than Fury and a cruiserweight when he put him on his ass. Pajkic was 25 lbs lighter when he decked him. The size difference alone in Fury vs Cunningham was staggering. Fury always gets back up but he's not harder to floor.

The perception is that neither Joshua nor Fury have sturdy chins. What Fury has to make up for it is his resilience/recovery as you noted. However, he's still losing those rounds he got dropped in (usually they're scored as automatic 10-8s unless there were point deductions or Fury was able to score a knockdown himself to cancel it out).

Maybe it is better to get rocked than knocked down but from Francis’ perspective Fury’s recovery ability is more problematic. If he repeatedly gets knocked down but also repeatedly gets back up showing no ill effects, that would probably gas Francis out if he pursued the knockout. Plus, Fury is very illusive. Throwing and missing big punches is exhausting.

AJ on the other hand has been wobbled by guys who don’t hit as hard as Ngannou and he is generally more hittable than Fury. The visuals are usually him getting rocked and then hit several more times while on skates. The times he has been knocked down he gets back up but is still on skates. That makes Francis believe if he can hit AJ with something substantial he can put him away.

What makes AJ intimidating for a lot of fighters is his size and punching power. As a big guy with an iron chin and one punch knockout power, those are not Francis’ primary concerns. He is much more concerned by defensively sound fighters that have good cardio and are hard to put away.

 

[djacobox372]

Ngannou was talking about being knocked down and literally getting back up to your feet. Not about "quitting." Quitters don't protest to the ref angrily. Nor do they rematch the guy they "quit" against immediately and beat them.

Did you watch the first Ruiz fight? AJ quit, the fact that he acted surprised and angry after it was over is a mute point.

Of course Francis isn't immune to mental lapses as well, one just needs to watch the Derek Lewis fight.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Maybe it is better to get rocked than knocked down but from Francis’ perspective Fury’s recovery ability is more problematic. If he repeatedly gets knocked down but also repeatedly gets back up showing no ill effects, that would probably gas Francis out if he pursued the knockout. Plus, Fury is very illusive. Throwing and missing big punches is exhausting.

AJ on the other hand has been wobbled by guys who don’t hit as hard as Ngannou and he is generally more hittable than Fury. The visuals are usually him getting rocked and then hit several more times while on skates. The times he has been knocked down he gets back up but is still on skates. That makes Francis believe if he can hit AJ with something substantial he can put him away.

What makes AJ intimidating for a lot of fighters is his size and punching power. As a big guy with an iron chin and one punch knockout power, those are not Francis’ primary concerns. He is much more concerned by defensively sound fighters that have good cardio and are hard to put away.

I could buy that Ngannou would be more concerned about Fury's recuperative abilities than Joshua's slightly better ability to stay on his feet. On the other hand, getting dropped as often and easily as Fury has been will not only cost him rounds but possibly even the fight. Fury is able to recover instantly but if he kept getting knocked down the ref will stop the fight. While the 3 knockdown rule is no longer in effect Fury has been dropped twice in the same round. A lot of refs will still stop the fight if a guy gets dropped 3x in a round regardless of the old rule no longer being in effect.

Fury is more elusive than Joshua but his overall fundamentals aren't as solid. He makes a lot of mistakes in there. It's just that his height & length (ranginess) often conceal them. Joshua is also more coordinated and a better athlete. He doesn't look nearly as clumsy in there, he's more explosive, and physically stronger.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Did you watch the first Ruiz fight? AJ quit, the fact that he acted surprised and angry after it was over is a mute point.

Of course Francis isn't immune to mental lapses as well, one just needs to watch the Derek Lewis fight.

Of course I saw it. He was surprised and angry because, well, he was surprised and angered by the ref calling it off. I think you mean it's a "moot" point? Mute isn't correct. Joshua rematched Ruiz immediately and beat him. Quitters (psychologically broken fighters) don't do that. Yes, while Ngannou didn't quit in the Lewis fight he might as well have. Choking in a fight isn't really any better.

 

[joeson]

I could buy that Ngannou would be more concerned about Fury's recuperative abilities than Joshua's slightly better ability to stay on his feet. On the other hand, getting dropped as often and easily as Fury has been will not only cost him rounds but possibly even the fight. Fury is able to recover instantly but if he kept getting knocked down the ref will stop the fight. While the 3 knockdown rule is no longer in effect Fury has been dropped twice in the same round. A lot of refs will still stop the fight if a guy gets dropped 3x in a round regardless of the old rule no longer being in effect.

Fury is more elusive than Joshua but his overall fundamentals aren't as solid. He makes a lot of mistakes in there. It's just that his height & length (ranginess) often conceal them. Joshua is also more coordinated and a better athlete. He doesn't look nearly as clumsy in there, he's more explosive, and physically stronger.

Styles make fights. Maybe Fury isn’t as fundamentally sound but what he is good at provides problems for Ngannou. Joshua’s strengths are Ngannou’s strengths, at least the physical attributes. They are both good athletes, coordinated and explosive. They both hit hard. Francis is confident that he hits harder, is stronger and has a better chin. Neither have great cardio. That’s why people are fascinated by this fight.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Styles make fights. Maybe Fury isn’t as fundamentally sound but what he is good at provides problems for Ngannou. Joshua’s strengths are Ngannou’s strengths, at least the physical attributes. They are both good athletes, coordinated and explosive. They both hit hard. Francis is confident that he hits harder, is stronger and has a better chin. Neither have great cardio. That’s why people are fascinated by this fight.

Joshua's cardio isn't great by world class heavyweight boxing standards, no, but he's shown that he can box at the highest level for 12 full rounds at a standard pace. Ngannou's cardio looked terrible in MMA and not much better against Fury despite it only being a 10 rounder and the contest being fought at a glacial pace (Fury didn't even attempt to push it). His mouth was open and he was breathing heavy after only like 4 or 5 rounds. Neither threw hardly any punches and yet both were visibly fatigued in there.

 

[LEWIS540]

is a mute point.

<45>

 

[Jonny Ninja]

The perception comes from the number of times that AJ has been wobbled in a fight. It happens in quite a bit and against guys who aren’t nearly his size.

It’s weird because he’s been dropped once outside of the ruiz fight, a clean right hand bang on the button from one of the biggest hitters in recent HW history. We all know what happened after that. In reality that would’ve knocked most HWs clean out, and most people calling him chinny would probably agree if they’re being honest. There nothing wrong with Joshua’s chin that I can see
Wilder on the other hand is supposed to be durable, yet he was too scared to throw him right hand because Parker was keeping him honest. Parker doesn’t hit that hard! And he’s been wobbled and hurt multiple times by c level fighters not known for their punching

Fans perception in boxing is generally biased tbh. This is one such example imo

 

[Jonny Ninja]

The Cunningham feather-fist talking point is annoying when you actually look at the punch he landed. It would have not only dropped basically everyone, but outright stopped most too. It was a bomb.

Other than that I don't disagree. AJ isn't particularly chinny and Fury isn't that hard to drop - his recovery is excellent though.

You could say the same about wlads right hand that dropped Joshua. I would speculate that wlads shot was considerably harder based on the size and power of both fighters!

Outside of wilder I also think Joshua has been in there with bigger punchers in general. Wlad, wilder, Whyte; has fury been in with any other big hitters? I do agree though, Joshua’s chin isn’t bad and fury does have very quick recovery

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

You could say the same about wlads right hand that dropped Joshua. I would speculate that wlads shot was considerably harder based on the size and power of both fighters!

Outside of wilder I also think Joshua has been in there with bigger punchers in general. Wlad, wilder, Whyte; has fury been in with any other big hitters? I do agree though, Joshua’s chin isn’t bad and fury does have very quick recovery

I think Joshua has faced the better quality punchers, too. More capable ones than Fury has been in with. They share Klitschko & Whyte in common. Hard hitters like Wilder and Ngannou are powerful but they're also extremely limited and the latter is a boxing novice. Joshua has Povetkin on his resume as well. He had solid skills and legit one-punch KO power.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I'm gonna laugh if some how A.j ends up as a betting underdog

The odds are out. As I expected Ngannou is a big underdog with the bookies. They give AJ an ~80% chance of winning the fight outright.

https://box.live/boxing-betting/joshua-vs-ngannou-odds/

FanDuel's line opened with Joshua at -550 and Ngannou at +470.

 

[DrRodentia]

It's better to get buzzed/wobbled in there than get dropped though. Joshua at least stays on his feet more. He's also never been dropped by feather-fisted fighters. Cunningham was 44 lbs lighter than Fury and a cruiserweight when he put him on his ass. Pajkic was 25 lbs lighter when he decked him. The size difference alone in Fury vs Cunningham was staggering. Fury always gets back up but he's not harder to floor.

The perception is that neither Joshua nor Fury have sturdy chins. What Fury has to make up for it is his resilience/recovery as you noted. However, he's still losing those rounds he got dropped in (usually they're scored as automatic 10-8s unless there were point deductions or Fury was able to score a knockdown himself to cancel it out).

Other than the point loss (which is huge, for sure) I feel like dropping is often wiser and much better for recovery than getting wobbled but staying on your feet unable to defend yourself properly against the coming onslaught. At least when you go down, you have a moment to recuperate.

A lot of finishes come from guys stubbornly staying on their feet and trying to throw back rather that hitting the mat and taking the time.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Other than the point loss (which is huge, for sure) I feel like dropping is often wiser and much better for recovery than getting wobbled but staying on your feet unable to defend yourself properly against the coming onslaught. At least when you go down, you have a moment to recuperate.

A lot of finishes come from guys stubbornly staying on their feet and trying to throw back rather that hitting the mat and taking the time.

There are a couple solutions to that problem. A seasoned fighter will know to take a knee, or simply tie-up, if they're badly hurt and their opponent is in hot pursuit. We see vets use them all the time when the need arises.

 

[Deaths Head]

If true …. Good Fight

He’ll pick Parker apart.

 

[joeson]

Joshua's cardio isn't great by world class heavyweight boxing standards, no, but he's shown that he can box at the highest level for 12 full rounds at a standard pace. Ngannou's cardio looked terrible in MMA and not much better against Fury despite it only being a 10 rounder and the contest being fought at a glacial pace (Fury didn't even attempt to push it). His mouth was open and he was breathing heavy after only like 4 or 5 rounds. Neither threw hardly any punches and yet both were visibly fatigued in there.

There was a decent amount of clinch work in the Fury fight. That probably contributed to both gassing. Fury is known to have a good gas tank. I know that there are rumours that he didn't train but both Aspinal and Joseph Parker, who were in his camp said he worked hard and looked sharp.

I think Fury gassed because he couldn't lean on Ngannou and instead had to muscle his way into the clinch. Francis used a collar tie/half/full plum to create distance and Fury tried to force his way through it, which undoubtedly sapped his energy. Francis also made sure his hips were back and would often have double overs causing Fury to have to carry his weight. Even though Francis nullified Fury's clinch, he still had to wrestle him and that probably gassed him, too.

AJ isn't much of a clincher. He gasses because he has a tendency to brawl with his opponent on the inside. If he ends up doing that vs Ngannou I don't expect cardio would be the primary concern.