"Jon Jones was able to dominate multiple generations at LHW"

[SuperNerd]

and he never fought old guys

 

[Taric]

I've heard Sonnen say this alongside others, when in fact Jones is 1-1 against people his age or younger than him, he lost to Reyes and beat Smith, all of his other LHW opponents are older than him in age

It has nothing to do with age.

Daniel Cormier is older in age than both Shogun and Rashad Evans... Cormier is still a newer generation of fighter than those two. Both fighters were #1 long before Cormier even started fighting.

From Gus onward those were a different generation of fighters compared to the PRIDE era of fighters Jones fought earlier in his reign.

First generation (fighters that started their careers during the PRIDE era): Shogun, Rampage, Machida, Rashad, Vitor, Chael, & Glover
Second generation (fighters that started their careers after the PRIDE era): Gus, Cormier, OSP, Smith, Santos, & Reyes

It's pretty simple to understand. MMA has 5 had generations within it's lifecycle as a sport:

1. NHB era (pre-1993)
2. pre-Zuffa UFC era (1993-2000)
3. PRIDE era (2001-2007)
4. post-PRIDE era (2008-2015)
5. WME/Endeavor era (2016-present)

 

[Kratos94]

The majority of fighters he defeated all were at their primes pre-UFC.

 

[TheBrownRanger]

It has nothing to do with age.

Daniel Cormier is older in age than both Shogun and Rashad Evans... Cormier is still a newer generation of fighter than those two. Both fighters were #1 long before Cormier even started fighting.

From Gus onward those were a different generation of fighters compared to the PRIDE era of fighters Jones fought earlier in his reign.

First generation (fighters that started their careers during the PRIDE era): Shogun, Rampage, Machida, Rashad, Vitor, Chael, & Glover
Second generation (fighters that started their careers after the PRIDE era): Gus, Cormier, OSP, Smith, Santos, & Reyes

It's pretty simple to understand. MMA has 5 had generations within it's lifecycle as a sport:

1. NHB era (pre-1993)
2. pre-Zuffa UFC era (1993-2000)
3. PRIDE era (2001-2007)
4. post-PRIDE era (2008-2015)
5. WME/Endeavor era (2016-present)

Probably the best representation for eras that I've seen. I would just think post-PRIDE era ended during the WEC/UFC merger in 2010/2011. The Strikeforce buyout and FOX deal were massive events that changed the MMA landscape completely. The addition of the Strikeforce/WEC talents to the UFC roster had wiped a lot of the UFC mainstays out.

I feel that Gus, DC, Cormier, OSP, Rumble, Davis, Manuwa, Corey, etc are the generational bridge between the post-PRIDE guys (Rampage, Machida, Rashad, etc) and the WME era guys (Jiri, Pereira, Lionheart, Ankalaev, Santos, etc) and it within it's own separate generation. IDK, maybe I just don't feel comfortable saying prime Alexander Gustaffson and Magomed Ankalaev are from the same generation lol.

Jon Jones wasn't a factor at all in 2008. By 2015, he already amassed 9 title fights. If you look at an average card from 2008 (Lesnar vs Mir 1, for example) it looks like a completely different product from a 2015 card (look at McGregor vs Mendes). The presentation made a huge shift between nu-metal edgy Spike TV and professional, clean-cut FOX.

 

[CombatCyborg]

I've heard Sonnen say this alongside others, when in fact Jones is 1-1 against people his age or younger than him, he lost to Reyes and beat Smith, all of his other LHW opponents are older than him in age

I don't know about multiple but he definitely dominated the generation previous to him. That was his claim to fame, wasn't it? Every former LHW champion who was still active, he demolished. I consider Machida and Shogun to be some of his best wins. I remember the Shogun fight well, Mauricio said he'd kick out Jon's chicken legs and that was a one-sided beatdown that lasted over 10 minutes. One of Jon's best kickboxing performances in his career. And vs. Machida, that was the best punch he landed in his UFC career.

 

[Taric]

Probably the best representation for eras that I've seen. I would just think post-PRIDE era ended during the WEC/UFC merger in 2010/2011. The Strikeforce buyout and FOX deal were massive events that changed the MMA landscape completely. The addition of the Strikeforce/WEC talents to the UFC roster had wiped a lot of the UFC mainstays out.

I feel that Gus, DC, Cormier, OSP, Rumble, Davis, Manuwa, Corey, etc are the generational bridge between the post-PRIDE guys (Rampage, Machida, Rashad, etc) and the WME era guys (Jiri, Pereira, Lionheart, Ankalaev, Santos, etc) and it within it's own separate generation. IDK, maybe I just don't feel comfortable saying prime Alexander Gustaffson and Magomed Ankalaev are from the same generation lol.

Jon Jones wasn't a factor at all in 2008. By 2015, he already amassed 9 title fights. If you look at an average card from 2008 (Lesnar vs Mir 1, for example) it looks like a completely different product from a 2015 card (look at McGregor vs Mendes). The presentation made a huge shift between nu-metal edgy Spike TV and professional, clean-cut FOX.

I meant for the years to be more of a guideline opposed to a hard and fast rule, couple years up and down for all the eras can be had. The general representation of what a generation looks like is what I was going for.

 

[filthybliss]

I've heard Sonnen say this alongside others, when in fact Jones is 1-1 against people his age or younger than him, he lost to Reyes and beat Smith, all of his other LHW opponents are older than him in age

we can play this game with any fighter that has ever lived.....

 

[Brendan The Hybrid Schaub]

the only guy who beat multiple fighters of 3 generations at a high level was Jose Aldo, granted it wasn't at a championship level but this was in modern BW, probably the strongest division ever, compared to LHW which is closer to women's flyweight in terms of skill and ability

 

[Stagliano]

When you say two generations people think he beat people his age and the younger hungry fighters when in reality he beat some small overhyped dinosaurs from pride and had average performances (mostly) when he fought people his age and size

These "pride dinosaurs" were in their late 20's - early 30's.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Rampage, Evans, Machida, Shogun and Belfort were all still in their primes...certainly not dinosaurs.

The argument that they are all middleweights is silly, since they were all recent 205 champions except Belfort when Jones had beaten them.

Oh, if someone beats Alex Pereira, now we can say he doesn't count because he is a middleweight lmao.


One of the most ridiculous arguments I've heard when talking about P4P goat contenders past.


Like Daniel Cormier and Shogun Rua are probably the 2nd and third best LHW's of all time, how on earth does Jones beating them not count fo ranything? "Yeah, but Rua could have been a MW!" even though it's totally irrelevant to someone whos entire career was at 205.

 

[icemun]

I've heard Sonnen say this alongside others, when in fact Jones is 1-1 against people his age or younger than him, he lost to Reyes and beat Smith, all of his other LHW opponents are older than him in age

Jones is the youngest LHW champion ever at 23

before him it was Shogun at 29. When you're the youngest champion ever, guess who that means your fighting?

As far as multiple generations-

Opponents became champions, retired, and/ or new ones came in.


Gusmao Andre
Bonnar Stephan
O'Brien Jake
Vera Brandon
Matyushenko Vladimir
Bader Ryan
Rua "Shogun" Mauricio
Jackson "Rampage" Quinton
Machida Lyoto
Evans Rashad
Belfort Vitor
Sonnen Chael
Teixeira Glover
Preux St. Ovince
Cormier Daniel
Gustafsson Alexander
Smith Anthony
Santos Thiago
Reyes Dominick
Gane Ciryl

 

[mkt]

Two generations of LHWs, actually
One of small LHWs who were also MWs or could have been MWs

And a bigger generation of LHWs... Gus, Santos, Smith, Glover, others... the guys who are actually 6.3 feet. DC is an exception.

But I wouldn't say he dominated this generation since he clearly lost to Reyes and his wins vs Gus and Santos could have easily been draws or either way.

But indeed, he dominated the small generation, those guys looked like Jones' smaller younger brothers.... Machinda, Rashad etc...

Michel Pereira has more muscle mass than Shogun
And many other examples
Today's fighters are just much bigger.

Frankie was small at BW

Talk about cherry-picking. Rampage, Bader, Vera, O'Brien, Cormier, heck even Rashad & Belfort fought at HW. So did Bonnar (RIP), who has a huge (sometimes roided IIRC) LHW and as big as the current "new breed" of LHWs. Jones never fought Tito, but he was another LHW from that generation as big as the current ones. And he fought Machida, Rashad and other guys Jones fought.

I mean Cormier picked up and slammed a 255-pound Josh Barnett. Yet you act like Jones fought guys the size of Poirier.

 

[MindGamingMantis]

Steroids

 

[Xoleth]

Talk about cherry-picking. Rampage, Bader, Vera, O'Brien, Cormier, heck even Rashad & Belfort fought at HW. So did Bonnar (RIP), who has a huge (sometimes roided IIRC) LHW and as big as the current "new breed" of LHWs. Jones never fought Tito, but he was another LHW from that generation as big as the current ones. And he fought Machida, Rashad and other guys Jones fought.

I mean Cormier picked up and slammed a 255-pound Josh Barnett. Yet you act like Jones fought guys the size of Poirier.

For the actual LHWs (size, frame and height) like Pereira, Jiri, Rakic, Jan, could both agree that Rashad, Belfort, Bonnar, Bader are smaller than them? Shorter, less muscle mass. Yes, I know Vitor was huge at HW, but he also fought at MW. He has the height of a current WW and at LHW wasn't big, compared with many current LHWs.

It's not cherry picking.
Some guys just profited by this transition of fighters getting bigger and bigger.
Same for GSP at WW or Conor at FW.

 

[chinarice]

Two generations of LHWs, actually
One of small LHWs who were also MWs or could have been MWs

And a bigger generation of LHWs... Gus, Santos, Smith, Glover, others... the guys who are actually 6.3 feet. DC is an exception.

But I wouldn't say he dominated this generation since he clearly lost to Reyes and his wins vs Gus and Santos could have easily been draws or either way.

But indeed, he dominated the small generation, those guys looked like Jones' smaller younger brothers.... Machinda, Rashad etc...

Michel Pereira has more muscle mass than Shogun
And many other examples
Today's fighters are just much bigger.

Frankie was small at BW

Ahhh yes the MWs Rashad Evans and Lyoto Machida, both being former LHW champs when Jon fought them. Them dropping to MW at the tail-end of their careers doesn't change that.

The difference between Jon and Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz is height. They were both as big, if not bigger LHWs than Jon

Rashad was a fkin HW on TUF

 

[sanguinius]

I've heard Sonnen say this alongside others, when in fact Jones is 1-1 against people his age or younger than him, he lost to Reyes and beat Smith, all of his other LHW opponents are older than him in age

If you are going to make things up, just say that he lost his other fights, too. Don’t stop at denying the reality of Reyes losing, fucking start pretending that shogun broke his leg and rampage knocked him out. Machida befuddled and caught him. Sonnen caught him in a submission. Why stop at one?

 

[sanguinius]

In my book, Jones lost that fight and that's all that matters

Find a new book.

 

[ferrisjso]

I've heard Sonnen say this alongside others, when in fact Jones is 1-1 against people his age or younger than him, he lost to Reyes and beat Smith, all of his other LHW opponents are older than him in age

The 2nd generation was still mostly still older than him. He was on the borderline of Gen 2 and Gen 3.

He did not lose to Reyes you salty thing.

 

[ferrisjso]

Oh I'm just saying people can argue Reyes lost to Jones but don't wanna hear shit when Jones cheated to beat DC in the 2nd fight.

If not for a car accident DC wouldn't have gotten a title shot and frankly shouldn't have gotten one anyway. DC didn't earn that rematch so Jones cheating(allegedly) is irelevant. Also a NC technically means that fight didn't happen.

 

[CrimsonFan]

This is the same kind of crap people used say about Fedor

",He lost to Arona, never fought anyone good, grabbed the ropes against Lindland" blah blah blah

You think youre being clever and making all these great points, but really you just sound like a dumbass hater.


I've never really liked Jon Jones, infact I've always rooted for him to lose.. but his career has been stellar.

And he did beat multiple generations of LHWs. He beat the old guard in Shogun/Rampage/Belfort

And then he beat the new guard of Evans/Machida/Gus/ whoever else.

They might not have been younger than him, but that's what happens when someone is the youngest champion. He won the belt at 21 years old.. there weren't ranked fighters his age to fight. If he fought people his own age we would be sitting here talking about why he was fighting nobodies.