Movies JOKER v.3 (Dragonlord's Review)

If you have seen JOKER, how would you rate it?

  • Total voters
    345
Cunningham said:
Meh. I think gangs amd cartels are a bigger issue than nerds but hey what do I know?
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nice non sequitur. nobody is comparing incels to violent gang activity or the cartel, so this post is totally irrelevant. i could just as easily say i’m more worried about white nationalists, but that has nothing to do w/ what i’m talking about right now.
 
hes not incel in the ideology sense, he fits the definition but he doesnt have the ideology (like hating women etc)

also hes mentally ill and has been in a mental hospital before events of the movie
 
KAZSoliloquy said:
who gives a shit? lmao he’s a fucking creep and an unbearable pile of shit. because he laughs a lot, i’m supposed to sympathize? fuck outta here
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No I don't think you are supposed to sympathise. But I mean, most mentally ill people are pretty creepy.
 
HenryFlower said:
nice non sequitur. nobody is comparing incels to violent gang activity or the cartel, so this post is totally irrelevant. i could just as easily say i’m more worried about white nationalists, but that has nothing to do w/ what i’m talking about right now.
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No need to get all liberal on me.

I was just meaning I'm not concerned about incels and their mentality of hatred or however you put it. They aren't a real threat to the social order the way organized crime is.
 
People still think this is an incel film?
Makes me question if they people who think that even saw the film .

Go read some more buzzfeed articles

No disrespect whatsoever
 
Cunningham said:
No I don't think you are supposed to sympathise. But I mean, most mentally ill people are pretty creepy.
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yeah they definitely can be. they are also often a burden to the people around them and this entire character was a burden to sit through.
 
HenryFlower said:
he’s not motivated by his inability to have sexual relations w/ women & doesn’t hold animosity towards other men for their sexual exploits. ik incel is a hot buzzword these days, but it just does not apply here.
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I think you're just trying to wash a movie you love from modern day connotations, which is perfectly fine. Those connections can go against the authorial intent of the movie, even as parallels continue to be drawn

But let's not forget the longstanding history of public shooters that started their sprees with their family members.
He kills his mother
who was a mentally ill witness to his abuse as a child, instead of chasing down the guy who actually did it. A good chunk of the movie shows he's willing to investigate paper trails to a pretty involved degree, yet it doesn't occur to him to identify who the boyfriend was at the time Arthur was raised and abused.

Arthur is not solely motivated by his inability to have relations with women, but his social impotency is absolutely a part of his characterization and the isolation that drives his negative thoughts
 
Amazing performance by Phoenix. He's creepy in every scene. Wouldn't be surprised if he was nominated for it. Don't know if I'll ever watch it again but I enjoyed it.
 
MoiraL7 said:
I think you're just trying to wash a movie you love from modern day connotations, which is perfectly fine. Those connections can go against the authorial intent of the movie, even as parallels continue to be drawn

But let's not forget the longstanding history of public shooters that started their sprees with their family members.
He kills his mother
who was a mentally ill witness to his abuse as a child, instead of chasing down the guy who actually did it. A good chunk of the movie shows he's willing to investigate paper trails to a pretty involved degree, yet it doesn't occur to him to identify who the boyfriend was at the time Arthur was raised and abused.

Arthur is not solely motivated by his inability to have relations with women, but his social impotency is absolutely a part of his characterization and the isolation that drives his negative thoughts
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i didn’t love the movie though. i just think it’s lazy to characterize Arthur Fleck as some sort of incel proxy.

but yeah sure, everything you said about the Arthur Fleck character is valid & obvious (Todd Phillips doesn’t know how to do subtlety), but what does any of that have to do w/ the trash humans who identify as being involuntary celibate?
 
KAZSoliloquy said:
yeah they definitely can be. they are also often a burden to the people around them and this entire character was a burden to sit through.
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Could you try any harder to be edgy? <Lmaoo>
 
HenryFlower said:
i didn’t love the movie though. i just think it’s lazy to characterize Arthur Fleck as some sort of incel proxy.

but yeah sure, everything you said about the Arthur Fleck character is valid & obvious (Todd Phillips doesn’t know how to do subtlety), but what does any of that have to do w/ the trash humans who identify as being involuntary celibate?
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It's not supposed to be a statement of shot-for-shot allegory, people made the connection (and imo reasonably so,) that Todd Phillips wanted to make a Robin Hood out of Arthur's evolution into the Joker. But he fucks the whole message up by having Arthur kill
coworkers for talking shit about him at work, his mom for being a bystander to something abusive in his life, a public entertainment figure for not taking his career seriously, and a therapist
he felt didn't listen to him enough.

All of those have a solid parallel to real-world crime sprees or executions, which isn't to say that other superhero movies don't draw the same real-world crime connections, a la Munich/embassy bombings (in Avengers: Civil War)

But because they shot the film from an Arthur-attached place that worshipped at the altar of his post-murder dances instead treating him as a wider character study (Sympathy For Mr Vengeance, Falling Down, Ichi The Killer, Man Bites Dog) they wound up with a movie that says marginalized people have carte blanche to take their revenge out on society at large.

The scenes with rioting in the streets shows the vengeance destroys the entire city and the innocent people doing their jobs in it, which isn't as hip or cool as targeted vengeance. The Dark Knight never gave you the impression it was endorsing Joker's actions; they wanted instead to show how terrifyingly calculated he could be, despite looking like a crazy person.

That wasn't the goal of this movie, this was made by a younger director who still thinks vengeance is a bold character arc and not a tragedy for all sides. There Will Be Blood reminds me of what he looks like he was going for. But there was a pragmatism to Day-Lewis' character that channeled all of American expansion policy, this movie's stand-in are the off-their-meds healthcare deprived and marginalized lone wolf types. Incel or not, just for its emotional and murder-justifying affection for lonely/socially stunted people it holds that hand.

He gets credit from me for approaching this movie more in line with the international arthouse genres of long-take, focused shots of minutiae, but he doesn't share their attitudes toward the 'sad' cycle of violence - he still keeps Funny Games posters on his dorm wall, know what I mean.
 
MoiraL7 said:
It's not supposed to be a statement of shot-for-shot allegory, people made the connection (and imo reasonably so,) that Todd Phillips wanted to make a Robin Hood out of Arthur's evolution into the Joker. But he fucks the whole message up by having Arthur kill
coworkers for talking shit about him at work, his mom for being a bystander to something abusive in his life, a public entertainment figure for not taking his career seriously, and a therapist
he felt didn't listen to him enough.

All of those have a solid parallel to real-world crime sprees or executions, which isn't to say that other superhero movies don't draw the same real-world crime connections, a la Munich/embassy bombings (in Avengers: Civil War)

But because they shot the film from an Arthur-attached place that worshipped at the altar of his post-murder dances instead treating him as a wider character study (Sympathy For Mr Vengeance, Falling Down, Ichi The Killer, Man Bites Dog) they wound up with a movie that says marginalized people have carte blanche to take their revenge out on society at large.

The scenes with rioting in the streets shows the vengeance destroys the entire city and the innocent people doing their jobs in it, which isn't as hip or cool as targeted vengeance. The Dark Knight never gave you the impression it was endorsing Joker's actions; they wanted instead to show how terrifyingly calculated he could be, despite looking like a crazy person.

That wasn't the goal of this movie, this was made by a younger director who still thinks vengeance is a bold character arc and not a tragedy for all sides. There Will Be Blood reminds me of what he looks like he was going for. But there was a pragmatism to Day-Lewis' character that channeled all of American expansion policy, this movie's stand-in are the off-their-meds healthcare deprived and marginalized lone wolf types. Incel or not, just for its emotional and murder-justifying affection for lonely/socially stunted people it holds that hand.

He gets credit from me for approaching this movie more in line with the international arthouse genres of long-take, focused shots of minutiae, but he doesn't share their attitudes toward the 'sad' cycle of violence - he still keeps Funny Games posters on his dorm wall, know what I mean.
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What gave you the idea he
killed the therapist he felt didn't listen to him?
 
MoiraL7 said:
the final scene of the movie with the bloody footprints? I couldn't wrap my head around why that was a Robin Hood justified killing
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Yes, he killed her. Obviously, he killed her. What I'm asking you is, what made you think he killed the one who he complained didn't listen to him?
 
MoiraL7 said:
It's not supposed to be a statement of shot-for-shot allegory, people made the connection (and imo reasonably so,) that Todd Phillips wanted to make a Robin Hood out of Arthur's evolution into the Joker. But he fucks the whole message up by having Arthur kill
coworkers for talking shit about him at work, his mom for being a bystander to something abusive in his life, a public entertainment figure for not taking his career seriously, and a therapist
he felt didn't listen to him enough.

All of those have a solid parallel to real-world crime sprees or executions, which isn't to say that other superhero movies don't draw the same real-world crime connections, a la Munich/embassy bombings (in Avengers: Civil War)

But because they shot the film from an Arthur-attached place that worshipped at the altar of his post-murder dances instead treating him as a wider character study (Sympathy For Mr Vengeance, Falling Down, Ichi The Killer, Man Bites Dog) they wound up with a movie that says marginalized people have carte blanche to take their revenge out on society at large.

The scenes with rioting in the streets shows the vengeance destroys the entire city and the innocent people doing their jobs in it, which isn't as hip or cool as targeted vengeance. The Dark Knight never gave you the impression it was endorsing Joker's actions; they wanted instead to show how terrifyingly calculated he could be, despite looking like a crazy person.

That wasn't the goal of this movie, this was made by a younger director who still thinks vengeance is a bold character arc and not a tragedy for all sides. There Will Be Blood reminds me of what he looks like he was going for. But there was a pragmatism to Day-Lewis' character that channeled all of American expansion policy, this movie's stand-in are the off-their-meds healthcare deprived and marginalized lone wolf types. Incel or not, just for its emotional and murder-justifying affection for lonely/socially stunted people it holds that hand.

He gets credit from me for approaching this movie more in line with the international arthouse genres of long-take, focused shots of minutiae, but he doesn't share their attitudes toward the 'sad' cycle of violence - he still keeps Funny Games posters on his dorm wall, know what I mean.
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okay so we agree that he isn’t an incel.
 
90 50 said:
See here, when adjusted the story is very different.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis...Highest-grossing_films_adjusted_for_inflation
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Its difficult to make a direct comparison. Back then there were less movies coming out per year and they stayed in theaters much longer. Like, if Joker were only one of a few movies at a cinemplex and stayed in theaters for another 4 months its numbers would be very different. DVD/Blu Ray made a rush to get out of theaters as quick as possible since back in the day there wasnt a booming home VHS tape market. Not like now with blu rays anyway.
 
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