Movies John Wayne Westerns vs Clint Eastwood Westerns

[mozfonky]

I still want them to remove John Waynes name from my local airport. Too bad he never experienced real tribal warfare with a Tomahawk to the skull.

He was an asshole, that's the other point, Clint usually had Indians in his films in a vastly more human manner. One of the ways was showing our humor (Chief Dan George).

 

[TribalDrumz]

He was an asshole, that's the other point, Clint usually had Indians in his films in a vastly more human manner. One of the ways was showing our humor (Cheif Dan George).

Dances With Wolves for life. Tatanka

 

[Madmick]

Idk there's a lot of white guys wearing brown make up playing indians in his lol

Because the world at the time was so rich with race-accurate actors of a high skill level to play those roles? This is irrelevant within the context of the age. That's really not a concern. That would be like complaining you didn't have Africans to play slaves if watching a play in Feudal Japan. It's theater. Acting is what actors do. They pretend to be someone else. This criticism has more teeth in the present day when we are suddenly changing the race of established characters when there is an ample supply of race-accurate actors to play a role, or worse, when they are literally casting people of the wrong race to play real historical figures who were of a different race. But, ultimately, even that is fair game in the world of theater. It's not a problem so long as the intent of those making these decisions isn't motivated by a specific political agenda.

More problematic, what ages poorly, is when those older films projected ignorant or condescending stereotypes of the characters themselves rooted in race, gender, or whatever, for the simple reason it corrupts the art with something untrue about that person. Certainly Wayne's films are guilty of this at times, but Eastwood's films are guilty of this, too. I just pointed out how silly and childish the portrayal of the old Cherokee was in Josey Wales. It's such clumsy pandering.

I have no gripe with Unforgiven, you're misreading me. That is one of my top 5 westerns of all time, probably top 3. It's one of only about a dozen westerns I consider a legitimate candidate for discussion of GOAT of the genre.

 

[TribalDrumz]

Lee Van Cleef ftw

 

[The Good The Bad The HBK]

Because the world at the time was so rich with race-accurate actors of a high skill level to play those roles? This is irrelevant within the context of the age. That's really not a concern. That would be like complaining you didn't have Africans to play slaves if watching a play in Feudal Japan. It's theater. Acting is what actors do. They pretend to be someone else. This criticism has more teeth in the present day when we are suddenly changing the race of established characters when there is an ample supply of race-accurate actors to play a role, or worse, when they are literally casting people of the wrong race to play real historical figures who were of a different race. But, ultimately, even that is fair game in the world of theater. It's not a problem so long as the intent of those making these decisions isn't motivated by a specific political agenda.

More problematic, what ages poorly, is when those older films projected ignorant or condescending stereotypes of the characters themselves rooted in race, gender, or whatever, for the simple reason it corrupts the art with something untrue about that person. Certainly Wayne's films are guilty of this at times, but Eastwood's films are guilty of this, too. I just pointed out how silly and childish the portrayal of the old Cherokee was in Josey Wales. It's such clumsy pandering.

I have no gripe with Unforgiven, you're misreading me. That is one of my top 5 westerns of all time, probably top 3. It's one of only about a dozen westerns I consider a legitimate candidate for discussion of GOAT of the genre.

My bad it was outlaw Josey Wales you hated lol you had an issue with the Indians in Clint's westerns yet in Johns they're not even indians lol

 

[Sick85]

Even Chuck Norris fears Clint

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

 

[mozfonky]

Dances With Wolves for life. Tatanka

I remember sitting in a theater watching Thunderheart and a family of Indians was sitting not far away cracking up at the Graham Greene jokes in that movie. It's not something that gets shown in american film very often and it's a pity, Indians are some funny motherfuckers.

 

[TardStrong]

I'm a fan of Both. Some of the stories in the JW movies are pretty good, but overall Eastwood takes it.

 

[Madmick]

My bad it was outlaw Josey Wales you hated lol you had an issue with the Indians in Clint's westerns yet in Johns they're not even indians lol

Again, in theater, it's the portrayal of the character that matters, not who plays the character. The character's identity and how it is handled matters most to how a film ages, not the actor's identity.

 

[mozfonky]

Because the world at the time was so rich with race-accurate actors of a high skill level to play those roles? This is irrelevant within the context of the age. That's really not a concern. That would be like complaining you didn't have Africans to play slaves if watching a play in Feudal Japan. It's theater. Acting is what actors do. They pretend to be someone else. This criticism has more teeth in the present day when we are suddenly changing the race of established characters when there is an ample supply of race-accurate actors to play a role, or worse, when they are literally casting people of the wrong race to play real historical figures who were of a different race. But, ultimately, even that is fair game in the world of theater. It's not a problem so long as the intent of those making these decisions isn't motivated by a specific political agenda.

More problematic, what ages poorly, is when those older films projected ignorant or condescending stereotypes of the characters themselves rooted in race, gender, or whatever, for the simple reason it corrupts the art with something untrue about that person. Certainly Wayne's films are guilty of this at times, but Eastwood's films are guilty of this, too. I just pointed out how silly and childish the portrayal of the old Cherokee was in Josey Wales. It's such clumsy pandering.

I have no gripe with Unforgiven, you're misreading me. That is one of my top 5 westerns of all time, probably top 3. It's one of only about a dozen westerns I consider a legitimate candidate for discussion of GOAT of the genre.

When you've known as many older Indians as I have you would see a whole lot of them in Chief Dan's performance. The childishness, the naivety and the deadpan humor is the same more or less. The superstition and magical thinking and paranoia is also there. The younger generations irritate me way more, they are just like white people, just like them. Loud, entitled, arrogant and then they want to act like they are somehow still "Indian", we're really not anymore. A perfect example is that female Indian writer who calls actors who milk looking Indian, Pretendians, who the fuck appointed her to decide who was Indian or not? The older Indians pretty much accepted anyone gladly if they had no reason to reject them, "you're ours for life".

 

[mozfonky]

I'm a fan of Both. Some of the stories in the JW movies are pretty good, but overall Eastwood takes it.

The searchers is one of his most popular but it was kinda boring to me. Wayne was a true racist too, he never apologized for it either, which is good depending on how you look at it. At least he was honest. It wasn't just the roles, he was all for genocide and racism.

 

[Long Dark Blues]

Eastwood.

 

[revoltub]

Wow close one

 

[Streeter]

Maybe the 2 most iconic actors in history.

John Wayne was great as the Hero. Clint great at the anti hero. Clint was cooler so he is more loved now but Wayne was the Novie Icon of his era..

 

[newcastleman]

My dad loves the Duke, undoubtedly his favorite ever actor.
For me though, Clint is the best. I prefer how he portrays the heroes as strong silent types, oozing with mystery and menace coupled with honor and compassion.

 

[Karl_Hungus]

I went with Clint, because his films are more interesting and exciting. They explore more facets of the human experience and ask more questions, some of which can be provocative. I grew up on John Wayne films, as a Gen-X member. Clint came into things in the 80s while I was still young, but they were still replaying more John Wayne stuff on tv reruns until the 90s maybe.

While I respect Wayne's work, I find his films one dimensional and jingoistic, even though I get it more and more the older I get. His films represent a heritage and tradition in America that is lost and been overrun. For that alone, I should have picked him, but I'm human, and thus imperfect, so I picked Clint, as his films represent my (and your) imperfections rather than presenting something that we can't go back to. The more I write this, the more I want to switch my vote.

Side note: My father taught me to sail in Newport Harbor when I was a kid. We would rent something like a 16 foot sailboat and cruise around the harbor. He flew for the Navy, so he had this weird thing about boats and nautical shit, but he also loooved John Wayne, as most of his generation did. He was even earlier than Boomer. He was from the Silent Generation, and they were more hard ass.

Anyway, we would sail right past John Wayne's house in Newport Harbor every time, as his house had a beautiful lawn and dock facing the harbor. He would point it out each time, lol. It was yuge and expensive. He had died not too long before, as this was early 80s, but the house was legit rich people stuff. I still have a picture of it in my head, because it was so memorable.


This picture doesn't really do the house justice, btw. It was a prime piece of property.

Just pure westerns? Clint Eastwood hands down goat

The thing is, though, John Wayne set the standard for what a "pure western" film was. He started out in small roles before he got big, and I remember him talking about how he had to come up with something that set him apart from other actors, so he came up with that walk that looks like he had a stick up his butt.

If we are talking pure westerns, we have to say Wayne, because Clint made anti-hero films, which went against traditional convention on purpose. So, while we may think of that as the standard now, because they are generally more exciting films, Wayne's films are absolutely more "pure western" than Clint's. No doubt.

 

[IDGETKTFO]

I hate westerns.

 

[Subotai82]

I hate westerns.

Why even post in this thread then? Are you posting in other threads about subjects you don't care about to say you hate the thread subject? seems pathological

 

[IDGETKTFO]

Why even post in this thread then? Are you posting in other threads about subjects you don't care about to say you hate the thread subject? seems pathological

Its an opinion thread.