Jemele Hill suspended by ESPN

Ridiculous statements like this prove my point that you are robotically partisan.

It's not a point; it's just your standard dumb personal attack. Is it partisan to say that right-wingers are not sincere allies in the attempt to reduce carbon emissions? Or that left-wingers are not sincere allies in the attempt to get gov't out of healthcare?

Lol, no I didn't. You always try to pull this card too.

You always do it, no? I've never seen you defend a position with arguments and facts. Your positions are just held for tribalist reasons and you respond to disagreement with attacks.
 
It's not a point; it's just your standard dumb personal attack. Is it partisan to say that right-wingers are not sincere allies in the attempt to reduce carbon emissions? Or that left-wingers are not sincere allies in the attempt to get gov't out of healthcare?



You always do it, no? I've never seen you defend a position with arguments and facts. Your positions are just held for tribalist reasons and you respond to disagreement with attacks.


What attacks are you referring to?
 
The topic here has kind of become, "What does free speech mean to you, and does it's definition change depending on the political statement being made?"

Personally, I don't think your freedom of speech protects you from your employer. So I guess I disagree with JackSavage on that (if I am reading him correctly). I know that I could get fired from my job if I said certain things in a public forum, and honestly I support that fact. There are certain things that I could say that should disqualify me from performing my particular job.

But where he's correct, is that there is no consistency in principles on this forum. I would have the same response no matter who said it. There is no political affiliation that could sway me to say or do something against my principles. Not even close, honestly.

But there are a lot of posters that seem to have no such principles. They don't even hide it particularly well.
 
shoulda been fired the moment she tweeted that the President is a White Supremacist

She is either A) lying, or B) doesn't understand what those terms actually mean...

either way, she shouldn't be the face of your drastically ratings falling flagship 6pm slot show......
 
shoulda been fired the moment she tweeted that the President is a White Supremacist

She is either A) lying, or B) doesn't understand what those terms actually mean...

either way, she shouldn't be the face of your drastically ratings falling flagship 6pm slot show......
TO BE FAIR, she shoulda been fired the moment they learned she knew jackshit about sports and looked like a moron even compared to Skip Bayless at times.
 
TO BE FAIR, she shoulda been fired the moment they learned she knew jackshit about sports and looked like a moron even compared to Skip Bayless at times.
at least Molly and the blonde chick on Colin Cowherd's show look pretty legit

plus they actually kinda know what they're talking about. And aren't racist
 
Is it partisan to say that right-wingers are not sincere allies in the attempt to reduce carbon emissions? Or that left-wingers are not sincere allies in the attempt to get gov't out of healthcare?

I'd say no. Climate and healthcare positions tend to be pretty easily identifiable re: right/left, the exceptions are rare.

Free speech on the other hand, is not a partisan issue. There are loads of republicans and democrats who actually do agree with each other it needs to be defended without bias, and also many on each side who seem to be against it.

You always do it, no? I've never seen you defend a position with arguments and facts. Your positions are just held for tribalist reasons and you respond to disagreement with attacks.

If I were tribalist, I would be arguing a lot more with people I disagreed with over you; whereas I suspect you & I share a lot of beliefs.

I don't have a problem respecting people even if I disagree with them on a lot of stuff politically.

As for you, I like you and think you are intelligent, but you can be over-partisan as hell sometimes. And saying that only the left protects free speech with good intentions is one of those times.
 
The topic here has kind of become, "What does free speech mean to you, and does it's definition change depending on the political statement being made?"

Personally, I don't think your freedom of speech protects you from your employer. So I guess I disagree with JackSavage on that (if I am reading him correctly). I know that I could get fired from my job if I said certain things in a public forum, and honestly I support that fact. There are certain things that I could say that should disqualify me from performing my particular job.

It depends. Strictly speaking, what LI talked about (and, for example, the Damore incident) is a worker-rights issues more than political free speech issues, but they tie together. I'd advocate almost all speech being free of political sanctions and agree that freedom from employer sanctions is necessarily less expansive, but I do support making it as expansive as it can reasonably be. @LogicalInsanity should have been fired for making a political observation that he disagrees with is something I strongly disagree with. And there's this angle:

But where he's correct, is that there is no consistency in principles on this forum. I would have the same response no matter who said it. There is no political affiliation that could sway me to say or do something against my principles. Not even close, honestly.

But there are a lot of posters that seem to have no such principles. They don't even hide it particularly well.

Yep.
 
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wait, are people arguing that employers SHOULDN'T be able to sanction an employee for remarks that are detrimental to the bottom line?

wait, what
 
wait, are people arguing that employers SHOULDN'T be able to sanction an employee for remarks that are detrimental to the bottom line?

wait, what
My job admittedly is public sector but we get e reminder Email every August that if we use "company time" to promote political parties/stances it is a sanctionable offense/HR reportable thing.
 
I'd say no. Climate and healthcare positions tend to be pretty easily identifiable re: right/left, the exceptions are rare.

Free speech on the other hand, is not a partisan issue. There are loads of republicans and democrats who actually do agree with each other it needs to be defended without bias, and also many on each side who seem to be against it.

You're insisting on this, but where's the argument? What aspect of right-wing thought does support for free speech come from? The concept of political rights comes from liberalism in opposition to the right of the time, and free speech in particular (political speech to get even more specific) has long been one of *the* central focuses of the political left, which has often required defenses against the mainstream right. Even putting history aside, the need for free political speech flows naturally from liberalism, but it does not flow from theocracy, ethnonationalism, market fundamentalism, or any other common right-wing ideology.

More recently, we have seen some right-wing defenders of a more-expansive definition of free speech, but those have only been in response to right-wingers themselves being on the wrong end of attacks there from the fringe left. Liberals have welcomed them to the fight, only to find that they disappear as allies when the speech that needs defending is not from Nazis or MRAs, but from mainstream liberals.

If I were tribalist, I would be arguing a lot more with people I disagreed with over you; whereas I suspect you & I share a lot of beliefs.

I don't have a problem respecting people even if I disagree with them on a lot of stuff politically.

You're not in the WR much, but I remember pointing out a factual error to you. I figured you'd correct it and move on. No such luck--you responded by attacking me and saying that I wouldn't have corrected the error with no basis at all. In another thread, after you similarly attacked my character, you asked me for my view on Damore, and I gave it. I called you into this thread to show that now that the shoe is on the other foot, there is no one from the right showing any consistency on that issue.

As for you, I like you and think you are intelligent, but you can be over-partisan as hell sometimes. And saying that only the left protects free speech with good intentions is one of those times.

I always liked your HW posting (well, not *always*), but I get the sense that you don't think about the issues that come up in the WR as much and are more likely to make knee-jerk-type posts here. I think if you make more of an effort to understand where I'm coming from intellectually, you'd see that I'm not partisan at all.
 
My job admittedly is public sector but we get e reminder Email every August that if we use "company time" to promote political parties/stances it is a sanctionable offense/HR reportable thing.
for the DoD it doesn't even have to be 'company time' as you're implied to always be on company time
 
I'll get you that right after I'm done selling yet another one of these Mighty Mouse posters we designed and created at the shop, and we finish with all the Reebok orders that came out... and maybe after we finish the restaurant design schematics.... oh and we gotta finish the Social Media influencer posts.... oh and the new UFC shirt designs.... oh and I get off the phone with FFC, Rizin, and KSW.... oh and we finish the movieposters.com web backend design. But I promise right after that I'll get right on that burger you need.
Uber is really stepping their game up lately
 
shoulda been fired the moment she tweeted that the President is a White Supremacist

She is either A) lying, or B) doesn't understand what those terms actually mean...

either way, she shouldn't be the face of your drastically ratings falling flagship 6pm slot show......
Should James Damore have been fired from Google?
 
Outside of work completely?
DoD I think so yes.

Traditional journalists too probably as there's supposed to be an air of being unbiased and if you're spouting off ridiculous shit it could make your employer look bad.

In Hill's case probably not but Schilling got canned for doing similar shit after warnings and she's getting a ton of bad press for a network that has begun to collapse on itself.
 
DoD I think so yes.

Traditional journalists too probably as there's supposed to be an air of being unbiased and if you're spouting off ridiculous shit it could make your employer look bad.

In Hill's case probably not but Schilling got canned for doing similar shit after warnings and she's getting a ton of bad press for a network that has begun to collapse on itself.
Yeah, I think outside of work should be protected from the employer. It's tricky though. I'm mostly OK with a company having the prerogative to protect their bottom line, but there are limitations.
 
Yeah, I think outside of work should be protected from the employer. It's tricky though. I'm mostly OK with a company having the prerogative to protect their bottom line, but there are limitations.
I agree there should be limitations but in the media world and if you're a high profile host or even co-host you gotta be careful to censor yourself a bit.

Hill has gone "off the farm" a couple times saying just utterly ridiculous shit and ESPN is dealing with tanking numbers and anything she's touched on their network has tanked even worse than the network itself has so it's a case of trimming a bit of "fat" so to speak to see what happens I think.

Like I've said though, she really should be fired for not knowing shit about sports.
 
I agree there should be limitations but in the media world and if you're a high profile host or even co-host you gotta be careful to censor yourself a bit.

Hill has gone "off the farm" a couple times saying just utterly ridiculous shit and ESPN is dealing with tanking numbers and anything she's touched on their network has tanked even worse than the network itself has so it's a case of trimming a bit of "fat" so to speak to see what happens I think.

Like I've said though, she really should be fired for not knowing shit about sports.
I agree that the real problem is that she's a terrible sports anchor/personality. I miss Olbermann and Patrick, bigly.
 
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