Law Jan 6th Committee Hearings Megathread; Links in OP

[Confucamus]

You're a hack.

They had pretty specific objections, which they made pretty clear.

They didn't really, though. It was just hurt feelings. Neither they, nor you, have grown back up since then. It's astounding there are people who still can't accept the results of the 2016 election.

 

[Loiosh]

They didn't really, though. It was just hurt feelings. Neither they, nor you, have grown back up since then. It's astounding there are people who still can't accept the results of the 2016 election.

They were protesting the electoral college and GOP voter suppression.

Everyone accepts that Trump won, people are just saying the system is terrible, because it is. If not for gerrymandering and the electoral college Republicans would actually have to put decent candidates into the field, and considering how terrible most of your ideas are not many of those exist.

 

[KnightTemplar]

They didn't try and overturn the election, they objected to the certification. Most of them didn't even bother to get a Senator to cosign, it was a ceremonial protest.

As I said before, that doesn't even matter. I'm willing to pretend that was the same as what's happening now to see if you agree there's a problem that needs to be fixed, one with solutions that have no cost. Make sure the letter of the law is clear that no legislature can discard the votes and choose their own electors.

The GOP is trying to pass the exact opposite laws.

Have you watched the video?

Again, I'm not directly comparing the video to 6/1. Clearly the riots were orders of magnitude worse, even if they were pathetically disorganised and doomed to fail from the outset. The only thing I'm drawing a comparison between is the intent of those involved.

 

[Andy Capp]

You're getting so caught up in semantics.

Nobody cares about inconsistencies, violation of rights, or tiered justice unless it's advantageous for whatever side they like more. Principles don't matter unless they help your team score.

Just wondering; are you including me in "Nobody cares about..." and "Principles don't matter..."? It's hard to tell from your reply.

Regardless, words have meaning. It's not a semantic argument. I'm not splitting hairs over whether it was a coup or sedition, genuine attempt or not, or whatever, in as much as it was a violent attack on democracy no matter what category you want to put that in. A bunch of people making a video is not that.

 

[Loiosh]

Have you watched the video?

Again, I'm not directly comparing the video to 6/1. Clearly the riots were orders of magnitude worse, even if they were pathetically disorganised and doomed to fail from the outset. The only thing I'm drawing a comparison between is the intent of those involved.

Why do you keep ignoring my incredibly simple and straightforward question?

Knowing what I've shown you about the ability to discard votes and select electors, even though technically it shouldn't be able to change elections shouldn't we make the laws crystal clear to avoid Supreme Court shenanigans?

 

[KnightTemplar]

Why do you keep ignoring my incredibly simple and straightforward question?

Knowing what I've shown you about the ability to discard votes and select electors, even though technically it shouldn't be able to change elections shouldn't we make the laws crystal clear to avoid Supreme Court shenanigans?

I don't have a problem with what you're suggesting. Caesar's wife must be above suspicion.

Now please answer my question: have you watched the video?

 

[Loiosh]

I don't have a problem with what you're suggesting. Caesar's wife must be above suspicion.

Now please answer my question: have you watched the video?

What video?

 

[Mr Holmes]

They were protesting the electoral college and GOP voter suppression.

Everyone accepts that Trump won, people are just saying the system is terrible, because it is. If not for gerrymandering and the electoral college Republicans would actually have to put decent candidates into the field, and considering how terrible most of your ideas are not many of those exist.

Democrats also Gerrymander. As for the electoral college, go cry a river. It serves an important purpose and its not going anywhere.

 

[Loiosh]

Democrats also Gerrymander. As for the electoral college, go cry a river. It serves an important purpose and its not going anywhere.

We could talk for hours about how bad the Dems are at gerrymandering, but there is no good argument these days for the electoral college. It was created when far more people lived outside of cities, and now gives far too much power to rural districts.

The "important purpose" is to give power to bad ideas that are not supported by the majority.

 

[KnightTemplar]

What video?

https://nypost.com/2016/12/15/celebrities-beg-electors-to-be-heroes-and-vote-against-trump/

This one. It was more than just a protest against the Electoral Collage. It was an attempt to influence "faithless electors" to vote against Trump, regardless of how people had actually voted in their State.

 

[Mr Holmes]

We could talk for hours about how bad the Dems are at gerrymandering, but there is no good argument these days for the electoral college. It was created when far more people lived outside of cities, and now gives far too much power to rural districts.

The "important purpose" is to give power to bad ideas that are not supported by the majority.

No, it forces candidates to pay attention to the fly over states. Without it they wouldn't yield any influence. I assume you've studied ethics and know some the problems majority rule can create?

 

[Confucamus]

They were protesting the electoral college and GOP voter suppression.

Everyone accepts that Trump won, people are just saying the system is terrible, because it is. If not for gerrymandering and the electoral college Republicans would actually have to put decent candidates into the field, and considering how terrible most of your ideas are not many of those exist.

Eh, no they certainly didn't. There's a plethora of examples of people screaming "Not my President!" Members of Congress calling him "Mr. Trump" instead of "President Trump." Maxine Waters' calling him "45" like an asshole. As far as the electoral college, I can't understand it for you. It's been explained plenty of times to you.

 

[Poatan Power]

Just wondering; are you including me in "Nobody cares about..." and "Principles don't matter..."? It's hard to tell from your reply.

Regardless, words have meaning. It's not a semantic argument. I'm not splitting hairs over whether it was a coup or sedition, genuine attempt or not, or whatever, in as much as it was a violent attack on democracy no matter what category you want to put that in. A bunch of people making a video is not that.

I just get disappointed when I see these semantics playing out. Don't give an inch and say that the celebrities calling for the electorates to ignore the constitution were being blithering idiots. Only play defense for your team. That just seems to be the overall trend. Even for the OP you quoted, making sure to point out the other teams faults as well. I mean since we're on it, the riots outside the WH by Antifa were far worse than the J6, so we should focus on those right?

 

[Andy Capp]

I just get disappointed when I see these semantics playing out. Don't give an inch and say that the celebrities calling for the electorates to ignore the constitution were being blithering idiots. Only play defense for your team. That just seems to be the overall trend. Even for the OP you quoted, making sure to point out the other teams faults as well. I mean since we're on it, the riots outside the WH by Antifa were far worse than the J6, so we should focus on those right?

Wrong. Was a former president directing them to march down there and fight for a false accusation? In what way were they far worse aside from that?

 

[LangfordBarrow]

withholding exculpatory evidence is prosecutorial misconduct.

Let's see if any judgements are overturned.

 

[Loiosh]

No, it forces candidates to pay attention to the fly over states. Without it they wouldn't yield any influence. I assume you've studied ethics and know some the problems majority rule can create?

I know the fantasy conservative think tanks have concocted to sell the tyranny of the minority.

Steven Crowder is a huge fan of the fantasy, he literally equates majority rule to Nazism. I'm not even exaggerating, there's video of him talking about it that ends with him saying "kill all ze Jews".

 

[Loiosh]

Eh, no they certainly didn't. There's a plethora of examples of people screaming "Not my President!" Members of Congress calling him "Mr. Trump" instead of "President Trump." Maxine Waters' calling him "45" like an asshole. As far as the electoral college, I can't understand it for you. It's been explained plenty of times to you.

You aren't understanding it properly. People are tired of presidents with less votes than voted against them, and if ever there was a modern president who only cared about less than half the country it was Trump, but that's a FAR cry from someone saying the election as rigged.

I completely understand the logic that created the electoral college and I almost certainly understand it's complex history better than you, but it is no longer needed and serves only to prop up a failing party of bad ideas. The minority in this country has a super majority in the supreme court. I know you can't appreciate how messed up that is, but rational people can.

The GOP put a 9/11 denier on the Homeland Security oversight committee. If I saw this in a movie I wouldn't believe it.

 

[Loiosh]

https://nypost.com/2016/12/15/celebrities-beg-electors-to-be-heroes-and-vote-against-trump/

This one. It was more than just a protest against the Electoral Collage. It was an attempt to influence "faithless electors" to vote against Trump, regardless of how people had actually voted in their State.

Hadn't seen that before, I generally ignore what celebrities have to say. I'll look more closely when I get home.

That said, left or right this needs to be completely impossible. No handful of people should get to discard votes and choose a president.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Hadn't seen that before, I generally ignore what celebrities have to say. I'll look more closely when I get home.

That said, left or right this needs to be completely impossible. No handful of people should get to discard votes and choose a president.

Agreed. One of several changes that are required. For example, I've long believed there should be a age limit for the presidency. Electing a man in his 70's to arguably the most stressful job on earth is asking for trouble.

 

[Loiosh]

Agreed. One of several changes that are required. For example, I've long believed there should be a age limit for the presidency. Electing a man in his 70's to arguably the most stressful job on earth is asking for trouble.

Definitely.