International Israel - Iran Conflict: PEACE DEAL CONFIRMED

Choose the following that best describes your position

  • I do not support Israel attacking Iran

    Votes: 223 61.6%

  • I support Israel attacking Iran, but do not support America becoming directly involved.

    Votes: 93 25.7%

  • I’m for America directly involving itself in the conflict.

    Votes: 46 12.7%
  • Total voters
    362
  • Poll closed .
KAZSoliloquy said:
israel has nukes and features all the same qualms you have with iran.
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I wouldn't agree that they are the same because Israel is heavy handed against their enemies- that's quite different from a covert terror state. But that's really beside the point.

Your logic here is- one bad state has nukes (Israel in your opinion), therefore it doesn't matter if other horrible places get them. That's not logical. Filling the world with rogue states that have nukes is a worst-case scenario, not something to shrug your shoulders about. Radical Islam is all about the afterlife, we don't want nations having them that will feel like they are going to heaven for killing a lot of infidels.
 
joy2day said:
Today's young people are totally different than they were in 1979. An uprising now could be different because Iran is different; the population is quite young. The vast majority of the population want a secular democracy, which is VERY different than it is everywhere else in the region, where most people want Islamic Law. I'm not saying it WOULD be different, I'm saying it isn't a given that it wouldn't.
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Doesn't matter what most of the people want. Often things go out of the control of what the people want.

When the Soviet Union fell in 1991, the population was also relatively young and thirsting for a democracy. It didn't happen.

It is highly naive to think Iran will become this democratic bastion in the ME if we completely topple leadership.
 
Hog-train said:
But the internal revolution was ultimately a consequence of the 1950's coup d'etat which we were responsible for.

And the 1979 revolution just led to an even more extreme religious theocracy.

We keep fucking with the Middle Eastern countries governments thinking it will lead to some Kumbaya democracy when there is zero evidence this will ever happen.
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That's not why we do it, though. It's for control.
 
joy2day said:
I wouldn't agree that they are the same because Israel is heavy handed against their enemies- that's quite different from a covert terror state. But that's really beside the point.

Your logic here is- one bad state has nukes (Israel in your opinion), therefore it doesn't matter if other horrible places get them. That's not logical. Filling the world with rogue states that have nukes is a worst-case scenario, not something to shrug your shoulders about.
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we're essentially running into a 2nd amendment argument here. it's a very bad thing if the ruling powers in global hegemony have nukes and no one else does.
joy2day said:
Radical Islam is all about the afterlife, we don't want nations having them that will feel like they are going to heaven for killing a lot of infidels.
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again, iran is not ISIS.
 
Crazy Source said:
That's not why we do it, though. It's for control.
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the problem is a lot of times, that part of the world as well as south america HAVE embraced democracy and often they've made a decision to nationalize their resources and focus inward on building rather than do business with the west. libya, venezuela, iran, chile, etc. there are tons of examples. iran nationalized its oil industry under mossadegh and was promptly overthrown.
 
Hog-train said:
Doesn't matter what most of the people want. Often things go out of the control of what the people want.

When the Soviet Union fell in 1991, the population was also relatively young and thirsting for a democracy. It didn't happen.

It is highly naive to think Iran will become this democratic bastion in the ME if we completely topple leadership.
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The Soviet Union was an entirely different situation, you're not actually thinking they are alike are you? Furthermore it could have been if things had gone down differently. There was a time when freedom was on trial in Russia it just didn't happen for a number of different reasons.

What the people want absolutely matters and with the right backing they got what they wanted in 1979. I get that you are skeptical about a better government, but you don't have a crystal ball either and it is naive to try to generalize what happened in very different places to what would happen in Iran. They could still end up with a better situation than they have now Whether or not it was a Democratic bastion. You seem to be hiding from the fact that the population is very different in the rest of the Middle East.
 
joy2day said:
The Soviet Union was an entirely different situation, you're not actually thinking they are alike are you? Furthermore it could have been if things had gone down differently. There was a time when freedom was on trial in Russia it just didn't happen for a number of different reasons.
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and the exact opposite was true for america. did you just forget mccarthyism? the US did the same shit from the opposite perspective.
 
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