International Is the US Constitution gonna be a thing of the past?

You're talking about the Creationist who wrote about how belief in evolution led to Nazism, right? I would take his stuff with a huge grain of salt.

Mmm, no. They militarized the economy to some degree and forced people to work longer hours. But the overall economic record was not good. I think you should look more into this evaluation in general.

The point of noting the popularity is that it's some people turning on other people rather than an alien gov't just going rogue.
Impressed with how you know many random facts. Like how would you even know the author I cited? I read him for a History degree, because of that I read more of him. Didn't think most people knew who he was. I wouldn't have.

But Hitler did spruce up the economy, yes people did work more. But after WWI, people were literally bringing wheelbarrows of money to the grocery store due to heavy inflation. It went from real bad to much better under Hitler. But not perfect, like you said, but much better. Compared to where they came from, it was great. He restored the economy.

My opinion is that this is the reason the German population mostly went along with Hitler when he started implementing his evil agenda.
 
I'm always curious what instances these people would point to as ti when civilian arms were key to democratization or protecting democracy. Because there are next to no examples in history of it. If it gets to the point of civil war, more often than not it's too late.
Really? Have you never heard of The Battle of Athens in Tennessee? Are you ignoring the use of civilian-owned arms in Ukraine? Then you have all of the armed resistance groups in Europe during WW2. Armed civilians also played a major role in protecting those fighting for civil rights in the US during the 50s and 60s.
 
But Hitler did spruce up the economy, yes people did work more. But after WWI, people were literally bringing wheelbarrows of money to the grocery store due to heavy inflation. It went from real bad to much better under Hitler. But not perfect, like you said, but much better. Compared to where they came from, it was great. He restored the economy.
The world was struggling generally. I don't think you can make any real argument that Nazi economic policy was effective, and I don't think anyone would want to emulate it either. Hyperinflation ended long before Nazis came to power.
 
There was some polling done and immigrants to the US don't value the US constitution as much as the non migrant whites in the country. Many believe that free speech does not include hate speech and see the 2nd amendment as an archaic way of thinking. I think we will eventually see the constituion modified to fit the new Americans of the future, and rightfully so. Free speech should have more limitations and guns should be banned from civilian use.

Meanwhile in the real world, Florida GOP has many times tried to abolish free speech.
 
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Really? Have you never heard of The Battle of Athens in Tennessee? Are you ignoring the use of civilian-owned arms in Ukraine? Then you have all of the armed resistance groups in Europe during WW2. Armed civilians also played a major role in protecting those fighting for civil rights in the US during the 50s and 60s.
The organizers or the battle of Athens considered it a failure. Compare that to say, NY or other major cities where political machines were broken up through civic action.

And armed resistance groups such as the Warsaw uprising? You seem very confused as to what led to the end of WW2 or the development of democracies.

And armed civilians more often then not hurt the Civil rights movement rather than protected. There's a long list of lynching that indicate that.

There's a reason most democracies were formed without a 2A equivalent.
 
Hate speech being regulated is definitely a slippery slope situation. I think if you're out here being openly racist, exist, bigoted, etc. And your words lead to people being harmed, you should be punished to the same degree as if you committed the crime 1st hand. I don't think you can/should impose any law that straight up forbids any kind of speech that would not lead to harm or harmful disord/panic (i.e. yelling fire falsely).

Gun laws need to change but not by taking guns away. There needs to mandatory education for anyone who is going to be a gun owner, assurance that they have the means to properly and safely store their weapons, and strict upholding of these standards. A tool that can easily end the lives of dozens of people in a minute isn't something to be owned lightly. Ignorance of firearms is unacceptable as an owner of one.
 
The organizers or the battle of Athens considered it a failure.
Are you for real?

Because it didn’t produce widespread national change or something?

Why would the organizers consider it a failure if the primary objective was achieved? Did it not expose corrupt practices and ultimately stop them? The armed vets prevented the corrupt politicians from fixing this particular election with the veteran backed candidate winning. It was a local conflict that lead to local changes.

Compare that to say, NY or other major cities where political machines were broken up through civic action.

The Battle of Athens is often cited as an example of civic duty holding the government accountable and protecting democracy from corruption.

And armed resistance groups such as the Warsaw uprising? You seem very confused as to what led to the end of WW2 or the development of democracies.
Armed resistance groups across EUROPE. Take your pick. You can pick groups from France, Yugoslavia, Norway and sure, even Poland as examples of local groups using civilian arms to undermine Nazi control in an attempt to maintain and/or restore democracy.

You seem to be confused about what you actually asked. You asked for instances of when civilian arms were key to democratization OR protecting democracy.

I gave you examples of civilians attempting to or actually protecting democracy.

And armed civilians more often then not hurt the Civil rights movement rather than protected. There's a long list of lynching that indicate that.
I'm sure the Deacons for Defense and Justice did more harm than good for the Civil Rights movement. :rolleyes:
There's a reason most democracies were formed without a 2A equivalent.
That's all well and good, but there are plenty of historical examples of armed civilians initiating change leading to democratic changes in their local government or pushing for democracy/sovereignty.

How do you see the Irish War of Independence going without armed Irish civilians? Or the Bolivian Revolution in the 1950s?
 
Are you for real?

Because it didn’t produce widespread national change or something?

Why would the organizers consider it a failure if the primary objective was achieved? Did it not expose corrupt practices and ultimately stop them? The armed vets prevented the corrupt politicians from fixing this particular election with the veteran backed candidate winning. It was a local conflict that lead to local changes.
You'll need an NY Times account. But to quote the organizers (almost all of them resigned after they gained power): "We abolished one machine only to replace it with another and more powerful one in the making." They also advised other veterans committees that armed force (aka 2A) was not the best way to go about things.
The Battle of Athens is often cited as an example of civic duty holding the government accountable and protecting democracy from corruption.
Except it didn't work. Read the primary sources, or actual historical work on the matter, not political fan fiction that removes the events of their context. I'll also point out that scaling up the events of a town of 15,000 to entire countries is ludicrous. It is also bizarre that you focus on one rather unique instance of taking arms against a corrupt poltiical machine, as opposed to the hundreds or thousands of times this was done without arms to much greater success.
Armed resistance groups across EUROPE. Take your pick. You can pick groups from France, Yugoslavia, Norway and sure, even Poland as examples of local groups using civilian arms to undermine Nazi control in an attempt to maintain and/or restore democracy.
And notice how all of them failed. Of the three examples below, 2 of them prove the opposite of what you claim.
-France was liberated by the allies (this was inevitable, with or without partisan help). It was mostly democratic before the war and continue to be for the most part post-War
-Yugoslavia became a dictatorship, with the most powerful partisan (Tito) seizing power and holding onto it for decades.
-Poland was a tenuous democracy pre-war and became a full fledged autocracy post-war. The actual democratic transition came during the Solidarity movement in the 80s, which was primarily non-violent.
You seem to be confused about what you actually asked. You asked for instances of when civilian arms were key to democratization OR protecting democracy.

I gave you examples of civilians attempting to or actually protecting democracy.
See above. Your examples mostly prove the opposite of what you are arguing.
I'm sure the Deacons for Defense and Justice did more harm than good for the Civil Rights movement. :rolleyes:
Remind me again, what did they have to do with the Brown v Board of Education or any of the Civil Rights Acts? You keep missing the big picture.
That's all well and good, but there are plenty of historical examples of armed civilians initiating change leading to democratic changes in their local government or pushing for democracy/sovereignty.

How do you see the Irish War of Independence going without armed Irish civilians? Or the Bolivian Revolution in the 1950s?
Give me some examples where countries democratized primarily through armed civilians.

The troubles ended through the Good Friday agreement, after the IRA gained legitimacy at the ballot box and its more violent brethren delegitimized themselves to the point of not being influential anymore. Most of the biggest Irish nationalist victories were PR, not actual conflict. AKA, breaking out from the Maze, Bloody Friday, etc.
 
There was some polling done and immigrants to the US don't value the US constitution as much as the non migrant whites in the country. Many believe that free speech does not include hate speech and see the 2nd amendment as an archaic way of thinking. I think we will eventually see the constituion modified to fit the new Americans of the future, and rightfully so. Free speech should have more limitations and guns should be banned from civilian use.
Dopey McGropey said he wants to tear it up, if you recall. He sure as fuck wants to do away with the First Amendment to start with.
 
The organizers or the battle of Athens considered it a failure. Compare that to say, NY or other major cities where political machines were broken up through civic action.

And armed resistance groups such as the Warsaw uprising? You seem very confused as to what led to the end of WW2 or the development of democracies.

And armed civilians more often then not hurt the Civil rights movement rather than protected. There's a long list of lynching that indicate that.

There's a reason most democracies were formed without a 2A equivalent.
Sounds like your position is that only the government should be able to use force in any conflict (and that people should be restricted from this right), is that correct?

It is also bizarre that you focus on one rather unique instance of taking arms against a corrupt poltiical machine, as opposed to the hundreds or thousands of times this was done without arms to much greater success.
So your saying that it’s always (or almost always) unarmed resistance that breaks down immoral/criminal/corrupt governments? Can you point to a couple examples?
 
Hate speech being regulated is definitely a slippery slope situation. I think if you're out here being openly racist, exist, bigoted, etc. And your words lead to people being harmed, you should be punished to the same degree as if you committed the crime 1st hand. I don't think you can/should impose any law that straight up forbids any kind of speech that would not lead to harm or harmful disord/panic (i.e. yelling fire falsely).
No one actually proposes regulating "hate speech," though. It's a phantom menace. But we actually do have a presidential candidate who wants to take the broadcast license of stations that don't do his bidding, wants to make it illegal to criticize the SCOTUS, wants to take some legal action against search engines he doesn't like, talk-show hosts who criticize him, etc. It's very odd that this gets almost no attention in comparison to weird fears about hate-speech regulation.

Also, incitement is pretty protected (yelling fire in a crowded theater is actually usually OK, legally). The type of speech that gets legally regulated the most is fraud (or relatedly false advertising), with threats and defamation being other big ones.
 
Sounds like your position is that only the government should be able to use force in any conflict (and that people should be restricted from this right), is that correct?
Nope. My position is that if you were to examine democratic transition attempts, the successful attempts are overwhelmingly defined by civic action and non-violence (there's no such thing as a 100% violent or non violent democratic transition). Transition from autocracy to democracy requires elite support, and violence tends to scare those folks away at the point where you need them to tip the balance against the existing regime.
So your saying that it’s always (or almost always) unarmed resistance that breaks down immoral/criminal/corrupt governments? Can you point to a couple examples?
Off the top of my head: The US end of Jim Crowe, People Power Revolution, the end of Apartheid, June Uprising in Korea, the Color Revolutions (that worked out), end of the New Order in Indonesia, Metapolitefsi in Greece, a few of the Latin American democracies that arose toward the end of the Cold War, etc.

What about you, what violent uprisings or resistance led to the break down of anti-democratic or corrupt governments in your book?
 
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