Is the era of elite eastern European boxers coming to an end?

[Tatra]

im going to waste some of my key strokes, did that person just mention "Ethnic pride"...lol

just go and read up a bit about the history of boxing and where fighters have come from, what ethnicity they are from etc etc

Oh look, the coward who doesn't even have the balls to quote/tag me just chimed in with his worthless opinion again. Yes, ethnic pride plays a role in boxing... @Kovalev's "Man Bag" mentioned blacks & Latinos and how they dominate the American boxing scene. You don't think ethnic pride plays a role in their pursuit of boxing? Are you that fucking ignorant of boxing's heritage? LOL

its about culture

Okay, you legitimately are retarded...

I think it clearly comes down to: culture

Like I said: it comes down to values

I repeat: it comes down to culture

But guess what... Indians & Pakistanis ain't producing any great fighters, as we can see with the diaspora populations in the West. It's not due to a lack of interest in fighting, either.

If you're good at something, you're more likely to pursue it. Indians, Afghans & Pakistanis just aren't built for fighting.

 

[GolovKing]

Tough times generate good fighters. After the current political situation comes to an end, there's going to be plenty of good fighters coming up. Probably even more than in recent memory.

When times are too tough, to the extent where literal wars are taking place in your country and resources are being devoted to military and not much to everything else, I don't think that is very optimal for breeding boxers. The tough times thing relates more to people who grow up kind of ghetto or working class

 

[GolovKing]

This isn't a given. Eastern Europe already had serious demographic issues before the war, now it's gonna be horrendous. The "tough times generate good fighters" stuff is nonsense too. Plenty of fighters come from middle-class backgrounds. Look at RJJ. Unless you call RJJ's strict upbringing "tough times" due to his father's military background.

Ali also grew up middle class, though he had to deal with the racial stuff from the pre-civil rights era. I think growing up poor is advantageous in some ways when it comes to fighting but not in the way that many think. I think mostly, it's just a thing that in the US for example, poorer kids are more likely to be exposed to boxing gyms at a young age, and poorer neighborhoods are more likely to have people who are rougher, street fights happen more, and people aren't as soft or coddle their kids. In theory you can be middle class and expose your kids to violence at a young age, train them and they can still grow up to be dogs, if they have it in them. That's essentially what happened with RJJ and Ali. I believe that if boxing was just a sport that was taught in every school across the country and middle class parents weren't scared of letting their kids take part, you'd probably see a shit ton of middle class American kids in boxing. Outside the US, in countries like Japan or UK most of these boxers, even the great ones didn't grow up poor, they are more middle class. With places like latin america or eastern europe, I am not sure. I think they all grew up in conditions that compared to Americans would probably be considered poor, but I don't know that they are actually poor in comparison to other people in their own country

 

[pugilistico]

Isn't there an Indian guy who's a silver medalist and KOed a guy in the first round in his pro debut?



Yeah he beat up a can but that's no different than any other prospect. At least this can looks like someone who trains unlike some of the guy American prospects beat in their first few fights.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Isn't there an Indian guy who's a silver medalist and KOed a guy in the first round in his pro debut?



Yeah he beat up a can but that's no different than any other prospect. At least this can looks like someone who trains unlike some of the guy American prospects beat in their first few fights.

At the last Worlds India didn't finish in the Top 10 but they were in the Top 15. However, there aren't a ton of Indian pros out there. There's only 700ish active guys around right now. I looked it up on BoxRec earlier. This is a country that has almost 1.5 billion people in it. Other countries with only a tiny fraction of their population have several thousand active professional boxers. They're underrepresented in the sport both in the amateurs & pros.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Oh come on. You can build a ring with four sticks/poles and some rope. Gloves aren't expensive. Just stop. Everything you're saying applied to Western boxers at one point too. They came from nothing and over time built their knowledge of the sport. That includes trainers. It's not expensive at all. Completely ridiculous. You're making excuses.

Wow solid rebuttal.

So this makeshift ring would be located outside then? Boxing facilities cost money to build inside a country and they have to be accessible to many of its people. Meaning you need many different gyms spread out throughout the urban areas in big cities. Did it ever occur to you that places like Africa, Afghanistan, Pakistan & India just don't have very developed amateur boxing programs in the first place? None of those countries are even Top 10 in the amateurs so it should be no surprise that they're not powerhouses in the pros. Again, lack of interest in the sport and/or insufficient infrastructure could explain why that is.

 

[defjaam]

When times are too tough, to the extent where literal wars are taking place in your country and resources are being devoted to military and not much to everything else, I don't think that is very optimal for breeding boxers. The tough times thing relates more to people who grow up kind of ghetto or working class

I don't think that it's going to be like that immediately post war. It'll obviously take many years.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Ali also grew up middle class, though he had to deal with the racial stuff from the pre-civil rights era. I think growing up poor is advantageous in some ways when it comes to fighting but not in the way that many think. I think mostly, it's just a thing that in the US for example, poorer kids are more likely to be exposed to boxing gyms at a young age, and poorer neighborhoods are more likely to have people who are rougher, street fights happen more, and people aren't as soft or coddle their kids. In theory you can be middle class and expose your kids to violence at a young age, train them and they can still grow up to be dogs, if they have it in them. That's essentially what happened with RJJ and Ali. I believe that if boxing was just a sport that was taught in every school across the country and middle class parents weren't scared of letting their kids take part, you'd probably see a shit ton of middle class American kids in boxing. Outside the US, in countries like Japan or UK most of these boxers, even the great ones didn't grow up poor, they are more middle class. With places like latin america or eastern europe, I am not sure. I think they all grew up in conditions that compared to Americans would probably be considered poor, but I don't know that they are actually poor in comparison to other people in their own country

It's not advantageous to pursue professional sports when you're poor. The people who were poor and were great athletes did that despite their disadvantage.

 

[treelo]

Oh look, the coward who doesn't even have the balls to quote/tag me just chimed in with his worthless opinion again. Yes, ethnic pride plays a role in boxing... @Kovalev's "Man Bag" mentioned blacks & Latinos and how they dominate the American boxing scene. You don't think ethnic pride plays a role in their pursuit of boxing? Are you that fucking ignorant of boxing's heritage? LOL



Okay, you legitimately are retarded...




But guess what... Indians & Pakistanis ain't producing any great fighters, as we can see with the diaspora populations in the West. It's not due to a lack of interest in fighting, either.

If you're good at something, you're more likely to pursue it. Indians, Afghans & Pakistanis just aren't built for fighting.

i didn't quote you, because i was talking ABOUT you, not to you

maybe you aren't more educated than me after all

 

[MRudi]

Box is and will be poor man box. Reason is simple. Middle class(i am from there) and higher will restrict kids from trauma generating sport.
Plus combart sports require tougness and endurance, that is easier to acquire in hardships.
There are and always will be plenty of examples from middle class and higher, just because being born richer means having easier in everything, but in case of combats sports they always will be rarity, more like cherry picking, than real trend.
I mean, if you rich and you have gifted son, you will send him to equestry or tennis, not to get beaten by kids of alcoholics and drug addicts.
For poeple inn combat sports from rich backgroound, look for them in bjj, karate or judo.

 

[Tatra]

i didn't quote you, because i was talking ABOUT you, not to you

maybe you aren't more educated than me after all

You were talking about me and also to me when you said "just go and read up a bit about the history of boxing and where fighters have come from, what ethnicity they are from etc etc". Idiot. You're so dense. lol

 

[treelo]

You were talking about me and also to me when you said "just go and read up a bit about the history of boxing and where fighters have come from, what ethnicity they are from etc etc". Idiot. You're so dense. lol

congrats, you have earned yourself a block, trolls are not welcome

 

[Tatra]

congrats, you have earned yourself a block, trolls are not welcome

You pathetic little turd.

 

[mozfonky]

Ali also grew up middle class, though he had to deal with the racial stuff from the pre-civil rights era. I think growing up poor is advantageous in some ways when it comes to fighting but not in the way that many think. I think mostly, it's just a thing that in the US for example, poorer kids are more likely to be exposed to boxing gyms at a young age, and poorer neighborhoods are more likely to have people who are rougher, street fights happen more, and people aren't as soft or coddle their kids. In theory you can be middle class and expose your kids to violence at a young age, train them and they can still grow up to be dogs, if they have it in them. That's essentially what happened with RJJ and Ali. I believe that if boxing was just a sport that was taught in every school across the country and middle class parents weren't scared of letting their kids take part, you'd probably see a shit ton of middle class American kids in boxing. Outside the US, in countries like Japan or UK most of these boxers, even the great ones didn't grow up poor, they are more middle class. With places like latin america or eastern europe, I am not sure. I think they all grew up in conditions that compared to Americans would probably be considered poor, but I don't know that they are actually poor in comparison to other people in their own country

They say ali grew up middle class, maybe by the standards of black people at the time he did. I'm not sure if he was or not. Even if he was, he still lived under racial segregation (which was one of the things that made him want to make an impression in the world) and he also was abused by his dad, actually even being stabbed at one point. So, as with most fighters, there is some sort of physical punishment endured during their formative years. The reason we don't hear much about that is Ali wasn't like Michael Jackson, he didn't like badmouthing people in his life and wouldn't say anything negative like that publicly but it was known by the people close to him.

As far as Roy Jones, he was such a peculiar case, he never really did take to punishment just because he was soooo dominant. I know his dad beat him and I know he had a long ammie career and I know he had to take some punishment but what we saw in his pro career were this; just a handful of times in his pro fights where he was tagged clean and shook, then, the Tarver fight and he could never do anything right again. That has to be because, sure he was old when it happened and no fighter has ever escaped that much punishment that long, but also, he had no chin and learned he couldn't take it. After his legs left him he was a sitting duck and he just lost heart.

As far as class and boxing, it's usually been the poorer folks even when boxing was truly an american sport. Colleges used to have widespread boxing and we have never heard of a great fighter coming out of those. Sometimes, we'll hear about guys in the military who had middle class or different upbringings discovering their talent (Ken Norton for example). Things are different today though. The euro guys like klitchko aren't necessarily lost without boxing, were educated. I would still think poverty would have to be a factor somewhere, even over there but some of those fighters aren't as tough as I'd expect either.

 

[defjaam]

I

diot. You're so dense. lol

You pathetic little turd.

So you get a sandy vagina when someone else uses insults, but it's totally fine when you use them?

 

[Tatra]

I


So you get a sandy vagina when someone else uses insults, but it's totally fine when you use them?

Fail quote. But that sums you up. I don't resort to insults as my entire comeback. I respond with them only after you prove yourself to be a fool undeserving of respect.

 

[GolovKing]

It's not advantageous to pursue professional sports when you're poor. The people who were poor and were great athletes did that despite their disadvantage.

Plenty of athletes in other sports like Football, basketball and baseball did not grow up poor at all. Fighting is the one specifically that people like to talk about how being poor is such an advantage, and I do think it is but not because of the way others think it is. You can be as poor as you want, if you grow up in an environment where men and boys aren't really macho, where males don't fight and act rough with each other then you probably aren't going to be very tough. And if there are no gyms around then you damn sure aren't going to learn it well enough to be a top level pro.

Look at these Iraqi guys trying to box these US Army guys for example. The Iraqi guys grew up way poorer and in worse conditions than any of these American guys would have even come close to, but yet look how scared and weak they are compared to army guys. The army guys don't know what the hell they are doing either but they are just more comfortable with being physical probably from rough play, getting into fights and playing contact sports as kids.

 

[GolovKing]

They say ali grew up middle class, maybe by the standards of black people at the time he did. I'm not sure if he was or not. Even if he was, he still lived under racial segregation (which was one of the things that made him want to make an impression in the world) and he also was abused by his dad, actually even being stabbed at one point. So, as with most fighters, there is some sort of physical punishment endured during their formative years. The reason we don't hear much about that is Ali wasn't like Michael Jackson, he didn't like badmouthing people in his life and wouldn't say anything negative like that publicly but it was known by the people close to him.

As far as Roy Jones, he was such a peculiar case, he never really did take to punishment just because he was soooo dominant. I know his dad beat him and I know he had a long ammie career and I know he had to take some punishment but what we saw in his pro career were this; just a handful of times in his pro fights where he was tagged clean and shook, then, the Tarver fight and he could never do anything right again. That has to be because, sure he was old when it happened and no fighter has ever escaped that much punishment that long, but also, he had no chin and learned he couldn't take it. After his legs left him he was a sitting duck and he just lost heart.

As far as class and boxing, it's usually been the poorer folks even when boxing was truly an american sport. Colleges used to have widespread boxing and we have never heard of a great fighter coming out of those. Sometimes, we'll hear about guys in the military who had middle class or different upbringings discovering their talent (Ken Norton for example). Things are different today though. The euro guys like klitchko aren't necessarily lost without boxing, were educated. I would still think poverty would have to be a factor somewhere, even over there but some of those fighters aren't as tough as I'd expect either.

I have never heard of college being a wide spread sport but by college age it is too late anyways, to be an elite boxer

 

[GolovKing]

I don't think that it's going to be like that immediately post war. It'll obviously take many years.

So you're saying that in the next decade or two, eastern european boxing talent will probably see a decline but after we will start seeing more talent again?

 

[mozfonky]

I have never heard of college being a wide spread sport but by college age it is too late anyways, to be an elite boxer

So is military and there have been a few.