Is Stipe overrated?

You mean WAS Stipe overrated when he was an active fighter? The answer is no.

Stipe isn't a UFC fighter any more. He hasn't fought in over 3 years. He's retired, and he lost his last fight. He shouldn't be getting a title shot, period. Of all the undeserved title shots, I think this one is the worst.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HHJ
He WAS a great fighter and appears to a great dude. But there’s 0 chance he beats Jones. With ring rust and age, no chance. And I hate Jones. Nothing would make me happier seeing him lose.
 
His best accomplishment is surviving 5 rounds against Ngannou

And Francis lost because he was gassed

Once Stipe was figured out, he was demolished (second fight)

How weak his punch is? Francis ate the best Sitpe's shots smiling, but almost fell unconscious when Joshua barely touched him

Today Stipe is moving like 60 yo Hollyfield

Calling Joshua's punches "barely touching" Ngannou qualifies you as an idiot.

Those were hard fukking shots, delivered straight on target, with good follow-through.

Ray Charles could see this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HHJ
Overrated? Dude’s the best UFC hw of all time.
Best and greatest are not the same thing. You can argue he's the greatest because of his "record setting" 3 title defenses. But best? Yeah fuck nah dawggy. Prime Cain beats him. Francis starched prime Stipe. Stefan Struve KO'd prime Stipe.
 
Both sides rely on numbers. Stipe's fluffers rely on 'most title defences' without any real insight into how good these wins were. I am the one arguing in favor of some subjectivity and looking at actual context, as well as basic stats.

Werdum's performance against him was downright embarrassing. Anyone with eyes can see that. It's not just that he objectively was old, it's subjectively how he looked like complete ass. This doesn't just boil down to a number - you have to actually watch the fight.

It's his fluffers that depend on numbers the most. They try to cut off the debate by insisting that the number of times he beat up on the elderly or the crippled removes all other considerations.

I have watched the Werdum fight. It's fair to say that the onrush that got him laid flat was unwise and lacking in elementary defense. But it's also fair to point out that it was the same kind of attack that he used successfully in other fights, only that Stipe had the skill to counter it while practically galloping backwards.

(Parenthetically let me add that Werdum's career is one of the less consistent of the greats, but that there's lots who'll declare him 2nd best of all time, ahead of Stipe, because he beat Fedor and Nog. Part of the subjectivity of measuring a fighter is which yardstick you choose...)

The problem with "anyone with eyes" arguments is that the input is processsed by a brain which can have any number of possible biases to interpret it by. Look at the discussion of the latest clip Stipe posted of his padwork — you have a thread about how sharp he looked and one about how ass it looked, damn near cheek by jowl on the forum. Anybody who uses the phrase "anyone with eyes can see that" I pretty much discount.
 
Also that first Stipe/Jds first fight was super competitive and some ppl thought Stipe won. Id like to re watch that one soon tbh

Stipe got knocked down and taken down by JDS and out pointed. He had a few decent moments but JDS had the more significant moments. Nobody with any kind of balanced scoring criteria thought that Stipe won that fight. The funny thing is that wad post Cain, CTE JDS and Stipe still couldn't beat him.
 
Stipe got knocked down and taken down by JDS and out pointed. He had a few decent moments but JDS had the more significant moments. Nobody with any kind of balanced scoring criteria thought that Stipe won that fight. The funny thing is that wad post Cain, CTE JDS and Stipe still couldn't beat him.
Not funny at all. Stipe at least won the first two rounds. He got hurt by the one shot in the third i believe that turned it around for JDS and Stipe i dont think ever fully recovered from that punch. If it werent for that punch, Stipe may have outpointed JDS. War Stipe.
 
Best and greatest are not the same thing. You can argue he's the greatest because of his "record setting" 3 title defenses. But best? Yeah fuck nah dawggy. Prime Cain beats him. Francis starched prime Stipe. Stefan Struve KO'd prime Stipe.
If thats the case then we don’t have anyone that can be called the best UFC hw. Cain was the closest to becoming the best imo. No, Stipe wasn’t his best self against Struve and is 1:1 against Francis.
 
In the UFC, he has the record for most HW title fight wins (6), most HW title fight defences (4), and most consecutive HW title defences (3), which makes him one of the greatest HW fighters of all time, and arguably the greatest HW fighter of all time.
 
If thats the case then we don’t have anyone that can be called the best UFC hw. Cain was the closest to becoming the best imo. No, Stipe wasn’t his best self against Struve and is 1:1 against Francis.
"best" means - with every attribute of the fighter combined - speed, strength, endurance, grappling skill, striking skill, defensive skill, heart, etc., who has the highest stats if they were video game characters. This is a much more speculative category than GOAT, "greatest", because GOAT is argued by accomplishments pretty much exclusively. Accomplishments factor into the "best" conversation, but there's more to it.

Stipe only beat Francis by taking advantage of his green grappling skills in the first fight. Once Francis removed that hole in his skill set (which increased his "stats"), Francis thunderously destroyed Stipe. So we clearly see that with both men at their best, Francis was much better. You can make a similar argument for Stipe in the Struve fight - Stipe may not have been at his best in that fight. Ok, fair. But he definitely was in the Ngannou rematch. Prime Francis is a better heavyweight MMA fighter than prime Stipe. You can argue Stipe is "greater", but personally I'm not impressed by 3 title defenses in the GOAT conversation. I think UFC heavyweight GOAT is ripe for the taking and really has not had a strong contender for that title. The field right now is particularly weak too aside from a few guys. The first guy to have 5+ UFC heavyweight title defenses is going to silence the conversation. And that guy will have a strong argument for "best" UFC heavyweight as well.
 
Personally I think its Fedor and Nog as 1/2 and then a group of Stipe, Werdum, JDS, Crocop, Cain, Barnett behind with how you rate them depending more on specifics, maybe Barnett and Cain a little further back.
 
"best" means - with every attribute of the fighter combined - speed, strength, endurance, grappling skill, striking skill, defensive skill, heart, etc., who has the highest stats if they were video game characters. This is a much more speculative category than GOAT, "greatest", because GOAT is argued by accomplishments pretty much exclusively. Accomplishments factor into the "best" conversation, but there's more to it.

Stipe only beat Francis by taking advantage of his green grappling skills in the first fight. Once Francis removed that hole in his skill set (which increased his "stats"), Francis thunderously destroyed Stipe. So we clearly see that with both men at their best, Francis was much better. You can make a similar argument for Stipe in the Struve fight - Stipe may not have been at his best in that fight. Ok, fair. But he definitely was in the Ngannou rematch. Prime Francis is a better heavyweight MMA fighter than prime Stipe. You can argue Stipe is "greater", but personally I'm not impressed by 3 title defenses in the GOAT conversation. I think UFC heavyweight GOAT is ripe for the taking and really has not had a strong contender for that title. The field right now is particularly weak too aside from a few guys. The first guy to have 5+ UFC heavyweight title defenses is going to silence the conversation. And that guy will have a strong argument for "best" UFC heavyweight as well.
We’ve yet to see a legitimate hw GOAT. It’s hard to become one cause almost everybody at hw hits like a truck and you get caught sooner than later.
 
If thats the case then we don’t have anyone that can be called the best UFC hw. Cain was the closest to becoming the best imo. No, Stipe wasn’t his best self against Struve and is 1:1 against Francis.
Honestly,man Its ok if we dont know who the best is at UFC HW. Its not that clear.

DC,Cain,Stipe and JDS are not super far removed from each other I dont think. Even those times Cain beat JDS' ass he had to be on fucking point and have the insane conditioning to be able to fend JDS off like that or he could get killed too.
 
Really though this just highlights that "names" and "former champs" in themselves are not an absolute measure of quality, Mir and Jackson were obviously a long way past their best but then again you could make the case for quite a few of Stipes wins being past prime, Arlovski, Hunt, JDS, Cormier 3, etc.
That’s why context matters. When stipe beat arlovski, Andrew was on a 10-1-1 run and the fight was an eliminator for the title. Hunt had just fought for the interm title. He defended his title against jds, and DC was the most recent former champion, when they were 1-1, challenging for stipes title.
So while you may be right when you say they weren’t in their primes. A prime is when a fighter is at the peak of their career, so objectively that would be at the point where they held the title. The difference is though stipes were championship calibre wins. They were either for the title, a defense, an eliminator, or against someone who just fought for the title. Fedors rampage and Mir wins were far from championship calibre fights. So ya the context of that differs greatly.
 
That’s why context matters. When stipe beat arlovski, Andrew was on a 10-1-1 run and the fight was an eliminator for the title. Hunt had just fought for the interm title. He defended his title against jds, and DC was the most recent former champion, when they were 1-1, challenging for stipes title.
So while you may be right when you say they weren’t in their primes. A prime is when a fighter is at the peak of their career, so objectively that would be at the point where they held the title. The difference is though stipes were championship calibre wins. They were either for the title, a defense, an eliminator, or against someone who just fought for the title. Fedors rampage and Mir wins were far from championship calibre fights. So ya the context of that differs greatly.
There definitely a difference in how off prime they were I'd agree but Arlovski at that point was along way off the fighter Fedor beat in 2009 and I think Hunt was worse than the version he beat in 2006 as well gassing inside of a round.

The difference as well would be Mir and Rampage would never likely be mentioned as significant parts of Fedor's legacy, the fighters I mentioned are significant parts of Stipes legacy.
 
There definitely a difference in how off prime they were I'd agree but Arlovski at that point was along way off the fighter Fedor beat in 2009 and I think Hunt was worse than the version he beat in 2006 as well gassing inside of a round.

The difference as well would be Mir and Rampage would never likely be mentioned as significant parts of Fedor's legacy, the fighters I mentioned are significant parts of Stipes legacy.

Fedors win over Mir matters because if Fedor had lost to Mir you can bet your last dollar that the Fedor haters would use it against him and try to define him by it. The Sonnen fight was similar in that regard. God forbid Fedor lost to either of them. We wouldn't hear the end of it.

Realistically these wins didn't do much for his legacy but it would have hurt his legacy badly had he lost to them.
 
Fedors win over Mir matters because if Fedor had lost to Mir you can bet your last dollar that the Fedor haters would use it against him and try to define him by it. The Sonnen fight was similar in that regard. God forbid Fedor lost to either of them. We wouldn't hear the end of it.

Realistically these wins didn't do much for his legacy but it would have hurt his legacy badly had he lost to them.
Probably true but that really tells you about the divide in thagt debate, what a much of dishonest bullshitters most of those who dislike Fedor are.
 
Back
Top