Is Stipe overrated?

[Aurelian]

See my long post above about Stipe being a slightly younger, fresh man in an broken down old man's division. That's the true story of Stipe's legacy.

Not that he wasn't a great fighter and a quick learner for getting into MMA so late. But that he was the beneficiary of fortuitous circumstances.

Pretty much every UFC HW has their faults that make it hard to crown them as the unanimous UFC HW GOAT.

Francis was green but that was still a great win. You brought up Hunt, Arlovski, Werdum, and Overeem but let's not forget he finished all of them in the first round even if they were old, except Hunt who he did eventually TKO in the 5th.

If we say Stipe is overrated, we could pretty much say every UFC HW has been overrated which I know that's not what you claimed but it's what TS is claiming. We can find damning faults with everyone except maybe DC who was old but he only had 6 HW fights in the UFC going 4-2, with those 2 losses to Stipe.

 

[Clark Rogers]

I agree that Stipe was a great fighter. It's just that the hopes for this fight being worth the wait is very low

That is one of the supportable points, it's def lost some luster since originally announced, and felt a little late even then...

But, all this stuff just shitting on Stipe's career is weak. Dude was great in his day. Dismissing him just to make Jon look worse is petty imo.

Who knows, though, maybe we get lucky and they both have one more big one left in them, although I kinda doubt it at this point.

 

[Dr Fong]

So by this logic, Jon Jones is a scrub because he was younger than almost everyone he fought.
HW is the division where dinosaurs go into extinction. It’s always been this way.

No, that's not the logic - that's your Straw Man logic. Jones was not fighting so many elderly and shot fighters with a history of being brutalized. He fought a few that were out of their prime, but also many who weren't.

The stats are there to reinforce the arguments about these guys not being in their primes, they are not the full basis for it.

JDS was younger than Stipe. Yet we all knew at the time he was not the same fighter after Cain 1 + 2, Overeem KO, and the Stipe 1 war. And this is proven by the massive betting swing against JDS from first to second Stipe fights despite winning a unanimous decision the first time.

And yes, HW is an old man's division. That Stipe benefited considerably from. That's the argument.

 

[jjjjjjjjjjohnny]

Stipe has always been a working man's champ - he's not great, he is decently well rounded and has good wins and some tough losses. It's hard to put him at the top of the list with guys like fedor, crocop, nog, etc..... I hope Stipe comes in and beats jones. It would be a great way to end his career and retire. wishful thinking on my part! STIPE!!!!!

 

[Dr Fong]

Also for all those sobbing that HW has always been full of the elderly and to leave Stipe alone, look at the ages of the top guys in the division today.

Jones - 36 (and one-fight from retirement)
Aspinall - 31
Gane - 34
Pavlovich - 32
Blaydes - 33
Volkov - 35
Almeida - 32

You can see that Stipe's Turok hunt of so many 36+ year-olds is not the norm, even though it still skews old, and he was lucky to get so many on the decline in his era. Early to mid 30s is still prime for a HW. Not late 30s/40s.

 

[Shadowthrone]

So Stipe himself was already 32 in that fight. I agree he wasn't in his MMA prime yet but his improvement in skills has to be balanced against the fact that he himself was no longer in his athletic prime. And everyone else was a carcass compared to him.

Basically it was an old man division, where Stipe was always younger than his opponent (except green Francis and post Cain-JDS), with much less miles on him. He is an enigma because of his own late start in MMA.

Absolutely nobody he beat after that first JDS fight was in their prime.

Hunt - 41
Arlovski - one month from 37, 17 years in, 8 times KOd
Werdum - one month from 39
Overeem - 36, 17 years in, 13 times KOd (in both MMA + K1)

JDS - Younger than Stipe. But no serious MMA fans thinks JDS was the same fighter after Cain 1 + 2, Overeem KO and Stipe 1 war. There's a reason JDS opened as a massive betting favorite in first Stipe fight yet a significant underdog in the 2nd despite winning the first time.

Ngannou - As discussed. You can argue the 2nd Stipe fight was as much Stipe out of his prime as Ngannou was green in the first fight. But the fact Stipe got destroyed by a non-green Frank doesn't give him much credit for the first fight.

Cormier - 40/41 (39 when Cormier beat him)

Stipe's entire UFC record vs people younger than him is 4-3. His record against people older than him is 10-0.

His legacy is a Turok lie.

Age doesn't mean shit in heavyweight why do they need to be in prime to be worthy

Arlovski won 10/12 fights coming in 6 KOs

Werdum was champ won 9/10 one loss to Juice Reem

Overeem won 5/6 3 KOs

Why you going to bat for a retard TS that is trolling

 

[Mammothman]

As much as I can't stand him and find him annoying I think he is rather underrated, he would run trough pride HWs except Fedor.

 

[Dr Fong]

Age doesn't mean shit in heavyweight why do they need to be in prime to be worthy

Arlovski won 10/12 fights coming in 6 KOs

Werdum was champ won 9/10 one loss to Juice Reem

Overeem won 5/6 3 KOs

Why you going to bat for a retard TS that is trolling

You are having an emotional reaction to simple biology.

The top 7 HWs today, not including Stipe himself (who should not be in the rankings) range from 31-36, with the 36 year-old confirming he will retire next fight. HW is old but there is still a significant decline for these guys once they hit their mid-30s.

39-year-old fat Werdum's tit flopping retard charge at Stipe was one of the most embarrassing things seen in an MMA cage, and you're here to argue he was still in his prime?

Gennady Golovkin had literally never been beaten by anyone not named Canelo and was on a 4-fight win streak coming into the 3rd fight. Yet when he showed up, he was completely shot for everyone to see, a shell of the fighter who fought Canelo the first two times. That's just what happens with age.

 

[McGeezle]

Stipe is a professional fighter and knew that was a hard punch he landed. Which is why he came forward. Francis recovers fast though. You aren't smarter than Stipe.

Except I'm sure that stipe now agrees with me. I never claimed to know he wasn't hurt in the moment. But it's a wild exaggeration to say he was. Also stipe came forward face first with his hands down. He did the same shit in the first Francis fight and was very lucky the same didn't happen there. Overrated I'd say

 

[HHJ]

Except I'm sure that stipe now agrees with me. I never claimed to know he wasn't hurt in the moment. But it's a wild exaggeration to say he was. Also stipe came forward face first with his hands down. He did the same shit in the first Francis fight and was very lucky the same didn't happen there. Overrated I'd say

The first fight where he dominated the fight?

Who cares what you knew in the moment. Who cares what you know now even. It cant be all that much.

 

[Barteh]

Definitely feel like Stipe is a tad overrated. People look at the names he's beaten without any context. I feel like prime Cain and JDS were much better fighters.

 

[oscerthegrouch]

His best accomplishment is surviving 5 rounds against Ngannou

And Francis lost because he was gassed

Once Stipe was figured out, he was demolished (second fight)

How weak his punch is? Francis ate the best Sitpe's shots smiling, but almost fell unconscious when Joshua barely touched him

Today Stipe is moving like 60 yo Hollyfield

yeah his more over rated then francis they are 1-1 francis as since gone 0-2.... stfu

 

[HHJ]

Definitely feel like Stipe is a tad overrated. People look at the names he's beaten without any context. I feel like prime Cain and JDS were much better fighters.

Stipe I think is close to them. The first Stipe/JDS fight was very competitive.

 

[Barteh]

Stipe I think is close to them. The first Stipe/JDS fight was very competitive.

That was a good fight and I do think Stipe is close to them, just a little behind in terms of skill level. That was JDS's first fight after Cain beat the prime out of him, but I don't think he was as bad yet as the version that lost to Stipe in a rematch that I like to refer to as Chemo JDS.

 

[Dr Fong]

Definitely feel like Stipe is a tad overrated. People look at the names he's beaten without any context. I feel like prime Cain and JDS were much better fighters.

Final stop on my Stipe hate tour in this thread - it's telling that it is the exact same logic being used to wheel Stipe himself out for this fight.

It's downright embarrassing when an MMA fan brings out the 39-year-old Werdum win in particular as evidence of Stipe's greatness. Physically Werdum looked absolutely awful and his performance was legitimately one of the worst things ever seen in an MMA cage, with no exaggeration.

You wouldn't find 0-1 amateur WMMA fighters that would attempt a plodding mong rush and windmill out snail-paced attempted slaps at their opponent like that. He looked like a demented senior citizen trying to fight in there.

 

[TheBulge]

By far the greatest HW of all time. Werdum is close in terms of big wins but he had a very rough start and then Stipe himself put his lights out going backwards with an arm punch to begin his own reign.

 

[Russie]

He isn't overrated. You have to make him the No 1 UFC HW when you go back and consider all who have fought in the division. You can find something with every HW to knock them down a notch if you wanted to. No other HW resume surpasses his.

 

[tymikeson]

Rocked badly? He took a step back and then violently knocked him out. No stanky leg. No wobble.

rewatch closely

 

[JKS]

His best accomplishment is surviving 5 rounds against Ngannou

And Francis lost because he was gassed

Once Stipe was figured out, he was demolished (second fight)

How weak his punch is? Francis ate the best Sitpe's shots smiling, but almost fell unconscious when Joshua barely touched him

Today Stipe is moving like 60 yo Hollyfield

Surviving 5 rounds lol?? Were you one of those kids that took the short bus to school?

50-44 on all cards, 200 to 33 strikes, 6 tds, 15 mins control time. That is complete domination and humiliation.

And his biggest accomplishment is beating an all time great in DC 2x. Beating Werdum is also more impressive than beating Francis.

 

[Skarsgard]

rewatch closely

Yeah, not even the slightest buckle in his knees. You're reaching.