Incompetent judges brought down the UFC's greatest fighter ever

[DoopidyDawesome]

DAMAGE is more important than getting a takedown and doing jack shit with it. I'm glad Henry won but he really didn't do anything of significance.

 

[SKSer45]

Why would they change it now when it was lay and pray was abused by so many others already?
1. GSP
2. Fitch
3. Phil Davis
4. Askren (not UFC)

Spot on. GSP vs BJ Pen 1 was a good example. Any fight with "Smoke Break" fitch too. Is normal

 

[chinarice]

Link to article https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/08/ufc-227-results-demetrious-johnson-henry-cejudo-judges-stats

Says judges at fault mm out striked and out poined and threw more than his oppenant but judges though lay n pray is the most skilled technique . i didnt watch this fight dont want to bbut why arent fighters saying anything about the point system everybody knows its messed up yet nobody does anything or cares.

Who says MM did more damage?

I was one of the people that think MM didn't really lose the fight but there are 3 rounds that Cejudo most likely won to 2 of the 3 judges. Rounds 2, 4 and 5.

In round 2, he was outstruck by a couple strikes but pushed the pace the entire round and got takedowns. Perhaps Cejudo did equal or more damage with his 11 strikes to MM's 15.

In round 4, the striking was equal. In round 5, Cejudo outlanded MM by one strike.

Until judging gets more complex, there will be one off fights here and there that really show a flaw in the scoring. MM/Cejudo and GSP/Hendricks and Romero/Whittaker II are great examples of how the scoring in MMA is flawed.

 

[VinceArch]

But what if the striking is close with one guy (MM) slightly winning? Then the TD can/should be a deciding factor IMO

I think if improved position or GnP is used then it should be counted for. Not just holding them down guard.

 

[BangersAndSmash]

People have a weird obsession with trying to downplay takedowns. You cannot just pretend they never happened and score the round without them.

So if a guy gets his ass kicked for a good portion of the round and then gets a takedown does that mean the round is scored in his favor or he gets a draw? By that logic you must've though Nik Lentz beat Tyson Griffin and Leonard Garcia beat Nam Phan.

Which rounds do you find most troublesome? Cejudo definitely landed a number of hard shots in every round. Yes, overall, he didn't land as much as mighty mouse, but it wasn't like he was anywhere near getting blown out on the feet.

 

[Stan]

Lay n Pray tactics ala Hughes vs Serra and DJ vs HC the top position fighter should not get any points for only holding down there opponent. I said it before and will say it again MMA rules need to be changed so Lay n Pray is not rewarded. New rule should be if top position fighter doesn't attempt to finish fight with punches or submissions at least once for every 60 seconds in top position the ref will stand them up. Even if top fighter is in full mount if he doesn't try to drop any bombs or submissions while in full mount ref stands them up. I'm tired of watching fighters hold top position and only pass guard yet never try to finish the fight in any way shape or form.

 

[markg171]

But what if the striking is close with one guy (MM) slightly winning? Then the TD can/should be a deciding factor IMO

Every time this type of conversation comes up people use the extreme end of arguments like a fighter winning 4:50 minutes of a round with multiple knockdowns to argue that a 10 second takedown shouldn't overcome it. Which is of course correct, almost generally never the case of a judge giving the takedown fighter the round.

But where the takedowns do tend to influence judges is your scenario, where things are fairly equal except for that takedown(s). If one guy has something over the other fighter then it would be a bit silly to ignore that.

The judges largely are valuing takedowns correctly. The fighter is indeed "stealing" the round by getting something over his opponent.

 

[aerius]

Obviously not exact 100% of the time, but as a general rule of thumb you can use the below to score fights in MMA:

If the fight was on the feet for 3 minutes and on the ground for 2, the person who won the standup probably won the round.
If the fight was on the ground for 3 minutes and the feet for 2, the person who won the ground probably won the round.

Yup, that's how fights are supposed to be scored according to the official rules. Section 14 of the Unified Rules & Regs of MMA states as follows:
http://www.ufc.ca/discover/sport/rules-and-regulations

K. Judges shall use a sliding scale and recognize the length of time the fighters are either standing or on the ground, as follows:

1. if the mixed martial artists spent a majority of a round on the canvas, then:
   1. Effective grappling is weighed first; and
   2. Effective striking is then weighed
2. If the mixed martial artists spent a majority of a round standing, then:
   1. Effective striking is weighed first; and
   2. Effective grappling is then weighed

Problem. Judges are fucking incompetent and I'm pretty sure most of them don't even know the rules.
If the fight is scored properly under the official rules, rounds 1-4 all go to DJ and Cejudo takes round 5.

 

[Roljo]

No idea if it's because of the MM fight, but damage should ALWAYS > position imo.

Seriously, fuck position.

Damage is subjective, imagine Jones vs Vitor going to decision; TRTor fucked up Jones' elbow in their fight, Jones gave Vitor concussion, which should be considered worse ? What if somebody shows damage more easily than their opponent because of scar tissue or whatever ?

 

[screaminleeman]

The most serious damage I saw Henry take was in the first few minutes of round 1. This was not from a D.J. strike. At NO point during that fight did I (and I hope most) think that Henry was closer to being finished in this fight! Hell the overall strikes in the 5 round bout may have favored DJ, but it baffles me as to how (in the realm of "damage") that someone can claim that DJ was closer to finishing H.C. than H.C. was to finishing D.J.

Neither did considerable more damage to each other, so it goes to the next set of scoring criteria. PERIOD.

Yes, take downs and positional octagon control scored higher with 2 of 3 judges than a multitude of leg kicks over 5 rounds that ultimately did not slow down the challenger enough to not be in the fight the whole time.

I agree with the 2 of 3 judges. Results, not statistics. So 100 footsy taps that resulted in no damage to an opponent is outscored by a TD and control. It damn well should be. Leg kicks are NOTHING more than jabs, unless they are thrown effectively. Putting your foot out, and touching an opponents leg without doing damage is NOTHING AT ALL! If DJ evidently leg kicks like a girl with little to no damage, it is F-tarded to think that judges should score all leg kick equal.

Aldo through leg kick to do severe damage quickly. Even if he did not finish his opponents with leg kicks, he obviously did do severe damage to the opponent setting up a less mobile opponent to make more hittable.

Aldo (and others) do attack the leg to do damage to opponents. Other fighters do so for NOTHING other the the statistical score the slight contact provides. Sorry, I believe that ALL judges would be 100% correct to score 1 Jose Aldo leg kick as much as 10 DJ.

FFS I have accidentally kicked my female dance partner in the leg by accident a hundred times that was 2x harder than DJ kicked H.C.

D.J. lost, it it baffles me how it was NOT a unanimous decision.

I'll go so far to say the footsy taps should NOT score, and the fighter that is throwing them warned for stalling!

 

[emax]

In a word, yes.

MM is not worth it.

I don't think any one individual fighter is worth it, at least not at the moment. It would take a wave of new fighters with specific martial skills - and a willingness to fight on a regular, reliable schedule, making the UFC a dramatically larger business to affect that kind of change.

 

[Flokk]

I don't think any one individual fighter is worth it, at least not at the moment. It would take a wave of new fighters with specific martial skills - and a willingness to fight on a regular, reliable schedule, making the UFC a dramatically larger business to affect that kind of change.

Yes.

Also, not over MM.

 

[ClosetVitorFan]

The only thing DJ was landing all fight were leg kicks to the shin and body. At no point did DJ land anything really damaging. Yeah he landed those low leg kicks sure. But that's all he did. Henry didn't do much more either with the take downs. A very low damage yield of fight imo. Henry should be back asap.

 

[milenss]

Yes. They gifted the fight to Dominick Cruz thus ending what could have been one of the greatest win streaks in modern MMA history.
TJ got embarrassed by the judges.

 

[Iroh]

Looking up stats to determine who won needs to stop

DC even pointed out how inaccurate the fight stats were during the fight.

You shouldn't solely judge it by it, but it can help and some fights it can definitely show who did more to win a round or fight.

 

[stillm93]

The correct answer is USADA brought down the greatest UFC fighter ever

 

[emax]

The only thing DJ was landing all fight were leg kicks to the shin and body. At no point did DJ land anything really damaging. Yeah he landed those low leg kicks sure. But that's all he did. Henry didn't do much more either with the take downs. A very low damage yield of fight imo. Henry should be back asap.

I don't disagree. But it's also possible the scoring could have affected MM's striking in less visible ways. It's possible that, since this time Cejudo showed more capability to get MM down to the ground and keep the fight there, MM was more hesitant to throw head and body shots because that combined with leg kicks could have opened him up for even more takedowns. The threat of losing position affects everything; it will also affect your ability to function in the standup since a wrong move could lead to you being brought to the mat and losing on scorecards regardless of what happens after.

 

[613]

I think if improved position or GnP is used then it should be counted for. Not just holding them down guard.

But what if its just a little GnP that is not that effective. Isn't that just as valuable as landing a few ineffective strikes standing?

 

[Fantasy]

And nobody gives a fuck. If you guys thought Mighty Mouse wasnt a drawl (shout out Schaub) as champ wait til you see what kind of ratings Henry cejudo pulls.

 

[ClosetVitorFan]

The bias in that article is so strong. Everywhere you look people are talking about what a close fight it was, and this article frames it up like it was a no-brainer that MM should have won and the judges screwed him.

Now imagine how mainstream media handles "REAL" news. Lmao. They can't even be honest with a niche sports story.