Illa saying what I've been saying

[BowserJr]

Ilia Topuria calls for UFC rule change to eradicate what Joe Rogan’s calls the ‘worst aspect' of MMA

Ilia Topuria has a plan to elimate weight cutting...

bloodyelbow.com

It's fucking stupid that super healthy guys weigh between 190 and 200 pounds dehydrated themselves and diminish their abilities to weigh 155 pounds just to have both guys weigh close basically 180 pounds when they actually fight. (I'm looking directly at you Islam and his short notice opponent in his last fight. I don't want to misspell his name). It's fucking stupid.

Control weight cutting. Just have the drug testers bring a scale with them. Illa says if you with heavier than 10% of your fighting class then your should move up. I'm more of a sliding scale. The heavier the class the more leeway should be given in my opinion. But if you weigh 230 pounds in shape out of camp you shouldn't be fighting at 185. Should be 205 or a damn HW. You shouldn't be breaking 170 pounds on the scale EVER and fight at 135. (I'm looking directly at Sean O'Malley and the 135 GOAT Cruz)

I never understood why people shit in Kelvin Gastelum. 185 IS HIS NATURAL WEIGHT. He doesn't want to destroy his kidneys to be aesthetically pleasing. He wants to be the most efficient fighter he could be and that was at 185 not 170. Everytime he made 170 he missed or had diminished results.

I'm a huge Jon Jones fan but his average in cage weight won't fighting at 205 was 227-232 pounds. That's a HW in my book.

For background in weighed 173 and wrestled 189 and I was so extremely successful at it. So I might be bias but I also truly believe that forcing further UP a weight class would make for better fights.

I'll get off my soapbox. Agree or disagree?

I fucking miss open weight fights.

It would also create a more level paying field and most importantly lead to less cte and less injuries overall. Also less cancelations

 

[agibmxmma]

Yes, out of shape, body fat, etc.. and one can weigh their heaviest. Yet what non athletes do not grasp it appears is that one competes best when at their healthiest and in most cases, their leanest. If that weren't the case, you would see a bunch of jacked ex SOF guys trying to compete in distance running in the Olympics.. being they can run comparable times in certain situations, without the training. But to do so consistently and an elite level, being in cardio shape def helps more then one being at their heaviest. Let's use common sense here, with all the medical advancements the past decade in regards to training for MMA to compete, all the research done.. if fighting at ones heaviest was "better" or "made more sense", well then it would be what the majority did. For the most part, the only ones who take issue on it are those who don't compete, or this younger spoiled and entitled generation that thinks things pertain to others, but not self. Illia for example admits to cutting 35-45lbs, which is actually common, but takes issue with others doing so.. comical that kid is.

 

[agibmxmma]

These guys aren't gaining 29% back after rehydration. Cmon lol. 185 is definitely doable tho at 155

+1

 

[Joshua8531]

Ilia Topuria calls for UFC rule change to eradicate what Joe Rogan’s calls the ‘worst aspect' of MMA

Ilia Topuria has a plan to elimate weight cutting...

bloodyelbow.com

It's fucking stupid that super healthy guys weigh between 190 and 200 pounds dehydrated themselves and diminish their abilities to weigh 155 pounds just to have both guys weigh close basically 180 pounds when they actually fight. (I'm looking directly at you Islam and his short notice opponent in his last fight. I don't want to misspell his name). It's fucking stupid.

Control weight cutting. Just have the drug testers bring a scale with them. Illa says if you with heavier than 10% of your fighting class then your should move up. I'm more of a sliding scale. The heavier the class the more leeway should be given in my opinion. But if you weigh 230 pounds in shape out of camp you shouldn't be fighting at 185. Should be 205 or a damn HW. You shouldn't be breaking 170 pounds on the scale EVER and fight at 135. (I'm looking directly at Sean O'Malley and the 135 GOAT Cruz)

I never understood why people shit in Kelvin Gastelum. 185 IS HIS NATURAL WEIGHT. He doesn't want to destroy his kidneys to be aesthetically pleasing. He wants to be the most efficient fighter he could be and that was at 185 not 170. Everytime he made 170 he missed or had diminished results.

I'm a huge Jon Jones fan but his average in cage weight won't fighting at 205 was 227-232 pounds. That's a HW in my book.

For background in weighed 173 and wrestled 189 and I was so extremely successful at it. So I might be bias but I also truly believe that forcing further UP a weight class would make for better fights.

I'll get off my soapbox. Agree or disagree?

I fucking miss open weight fights

Fight or don't fight.

 

[theufcbaddy]

Hand sanitizer boy running his stupid chorizo sausage mouth. He cuts more weight than most. Why did he move up that tosser? Maybe he's full of shit.

 

[muaythaibeast]

Dehydrated fighters getting brain damage.

More CTE, more early onset dementia and parkinsons.
Maybe even the first death as a result of a UFC fight.


What other bad ideas have you got?

If you lose a fight due to fighting dehydrated, that's on you. It's a problem initially, but it's a problem that sorts itself real quick. Whatever system you have, guys will still try to bypass it, but putting out a subpar product with guys fighting at their least capable to have an even playing field is mental.
The bigger issue is when guys miss weight on the day of the event and we have cancelled fights.

 

[jeff7b9]

No - you are full of shit. The data is clear - the NCAA solved weight cutting ~20 years ago.

and since then a method to circumvent that hydration test has been found tested and widely implemented.

Can you debate that in any way or are you gonna throw another temper tantrum and call me names like an angry toddler ?

your entire stance is based on burying your head in the sand and choosing to remain ignorant

You have no idea what you're talking about, just a bullshitter.




The NCAA solved weight cutting 20 years ago and grave injuries from weight cuts have effectively disappeared. You're a bullshitter who has no idea what you're talking about.







You don't even know what you don't know.

Still talking about a different sport I see and have zero argument to the video which literally shows someone beating the test you are praising.

Continue to choose ignorance sir. Good luck with that.

If you ever want to join reality the method to beat the hydration test is demonstrated and explained at roughly 20 minutes into the MMA on Point video.

I offered you a debate and you had a temper tantrum.
Thats how this usually goes.
One side has facts and the other side has emotions.

 

[jeff7b9]

Obviously the same day weigh in is meant to discourage those previous steps because it can't be done safely. It is meant to encourage someone who stays in shape between fights (say at 195 pounds) to fight at 185. the point is it suppose to drastically reduce the cutting of excessive weight, so someone who walks around at 195 would cut closer to their natural at to 185, someone who walks around closer to 180 would fight at 170 and so on. I don't claim to be a expert, but that's the idea of trying to discourage huge weight cuts by same day weigh ins.

I appreciate that your heart is likely in the right place but your entire stance is completely ignoring reality. I gave you a simple example of exactly how your idea would be defeated and you really have no counter.

that is really the whole weight cutting debate in a nutshell.
"they are gonna stop doing what they have always done because i want them to because i dont like it"


Basically War on Drugs mentality then? How is that going?

 

[jeff7b9]

If you lose a fight due to fighting dehydrated, that's on you. It's a problem initially, but it's a problem that sorts itself real quick. Whatever system you have, guys will still try to bypass it, but putting out a subpar product with guys fighting at their least capable to have an even playing field is mental.
The bigger issue is when guys miss weight on the day of the event and we have cancelled fights.

So you choose the option which will lead to more health damage to the fighters on the naive and unrealistic hope that maybe the negative results of the DAMAGE you would choose to inflict upon the fighters outweighs the advantage of the weight that the fighters have already clearly demonstrated they will risk their health for?

Shall we just cross fighter safety off the list of reasons for the "we need to DO SOMETHING to solve weight cutting" side of the discussion then?

Always good to get to the truth. Good times.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Ilia's one of the biggest weight cutters in the UFC, and now that he wants to move up, suddenly he doesn't want anyone bigger than him allowed to cut weight like he did.

You do have a point

 

[Bend NvR Break]

It would be extremely difficult to compete at the lower weightclasses without cutting weight.

Also, why do you mention Sean O'Malley?
You know there's a difference between being tall and being big, right?
If I recall correctly O'Malley is around 160 lbs in his normal life, he's built like a stick and would be too small for FW.

O'Malley himself says he'd like to fight at 155 but the guys who actually fight at 155 would make him look like a prepubescent boy

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Dehydrated fighters getting brain damage.

More CTE, more early onset dementia and parkinsons.
Maybe even the first death as a result of a UFC fight.


What other bad ideas have you got?

The people who try and game the situation early will FAFO and be used as an example for others fighters not to win stupid prizes because they played stupid games.

No one says you HAVE to be dehydrated when you weigh in. You could just be at your natural weight that you train at daily.

Dehydrated fighters getting brain damage, more CTE, early onset dementia, Parkinson's all happen because of the CURRENT SYSTEM WE HAVE with weight cutting. You forgot to mention organ failure especially kidneys.

The way things are right now we tell fighters to drain themselves to the body's limit and then give them 1 day to rehydrate (which is not enough time to properly rehydrate) and then send them in a cage to fight.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

you want a solution to stop fighters dehydrating themselves?

let a few of them die, it will soon stop

This

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Again, the requirement to think this is a good solution is to not have thought it through.

The only thing that will change if MMA orgs or athletic commissions went to same day weigh ins is that fighters would not have adequate time to rehydrate, thus they would be fighting and taking trauma to the brain while dehydrated.


I don't know where people get this idea that a snap of the fingers will magically undo 50+ years of weigh cutting culture and psychology such that fighters will willingly give up the advantage they perceive from being as big as possible while using dehydration as a method to quickly remove and replace a significant amount of weight.

We shouldn't do it because guys will still try and weight cut?

This is dumb. You're actively trying to protect the guys who will try and game the system instead of letting them FAFO. They will be the sacrifice that makes the sport ultimately safer for everyone.

We are trying to get away from weight cutting. The fighters know this. How about just not cutting a lot of weight or be left to suffer the consequences.

Your example reminds me of the gun argument. That we should take guns from everyone because a few people can't abide by reasonable rules. We shouldn't have same day weigh ins because a few fighters who knowingly cut a huge amount of weight instead of following guidelines will be in danger. That's dumb.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

He himself said he weighs 180+ walking around weight.

He said he weighs 190.

 

[jeff7b9]

The people who try and game the situation early will FAFO and be used as an example for others fighters not to win stupid prizes because they played stupid games.

No one says you HAVE to be dehydrated when you weigh in. You could just be at your natural weight that you train at daily.

Dehydrated fighters getting brain damage, more CTE, early onset dementia, Parkinson's all happen because of the CURRENT SYSTEM WE HAVE with weight cutting. You forgot to mention organ failure especially kidneys.

The way things are right now we tell fighters to drain themselves to the body's limit and then give them 1 day to rehydrate (which is not enough time to properly rehydrate) and then send them in a cage to fight.

We can consider this another tally on the "I don't really care about fighter health" ever growing list which is becoming undeniable from the "we need to do something but I have no actual idea what that thing is I'm just mad and wanna stomp my feet a bit" side of this discussion.

I have offered up a challenge, ANYONE in this thread full of crybabies, offer me an actual legitimate possible solution that would be better than the current state of things and no one can come close, it is just the same cycle of the same bad and easily debunked bullshit.

 

[jeff7b9]

We shouldn't do it because guys will still try and weight cut?

This is dumb. You're actively trying to protect the guys who will try and game the system instead of letting them FAFO. They will be the sacrifice that makes the sport ultimately safer for everyone.

We are trying to get away from weight cutting. The fighters know this. How about just not cutting a lot of weight or be left to suffer the consequences.

Your example reminds me of the gun argument. That we should take guns from everyone because a few people can't abide by reasonable rules. We shouldn't have same day weigh ins because a few fighters who knowingly cut a huge amount of weight instead of following guidelines will be in danger. That's dumb.

I have been pretty clear. But I can dumb it down more if you need.


You: "We need to DO SOMETHING"

Me: "Show me ANY idea whatsoever that would actually be an improvement and we can talk"


You guys got nothing. Just emotions and temper tantrums.

___________________________

Horrible attempt at the gun analogy.

The "We need to DO SOMETHING" side of the gun discussion is the side saying "we need to take guns away from law abiding citizens to stop criminals" thats YOU "we need more gun free zones to stop the mass shootings that keep happening in gun free zones!" Logic be damned we need to DO SOMETHING - that is your side of this debate "we need to endanger the people we are pretending to want to protect so we can say we did something" <- thats your team

My side is "Show me an actual idea that might improve anything and we can talk"

 

[fzoid4454]

Ilia Topuria calls for UFC rule change to eradicate what Joe Rogan’s calls the ‘worst aspect' of MMA

Ilia Topuria has a plan to elimate weight cutting...

bloodyelbow.com

It's fucking stupid that super healthy guys weigh between 190 and 200 pounds dehydrated themselves and diminish their abilities to weigh 155 pounds just to have both guys weigh close basically 180 pounds when they actually fight. (I'm looking directly at you Islam and his short notice opponent in his last fight. I don't want to misspell his name). It's fucking stupid.

Control weight cutting. Just have the drug testers bring a scale with them. Illa says if you with heavier than 10% of your fighting class then your should move up. I'm more of a sliding scale. The heavier the class the more leeway should be given in my opinion. But if you weigh 230 pounds in shape out of camp you shouldn't be fighting at 185. Should be 205 or a damn HW. You shouldn't be breaking 170 pounds on the scale EVER and fight at 135. (I'm looking directly at Sean O'Malley and the 135 GOAT Cruz)

I never understood why people shit in Kelvin Gastelum. 185 IS HIS NATURAL WEIGHT. He doesn't want to destroy his kidneys to be aesthetically pleasing. He wants to be the most efficient fighter he could be and that was at 185 not 170. Everytime he made 170 he missed or had diminished results.

I'm a huge Jon Jones fan but his average in cage weight won't fighting at 205 was 227-232 pounds. That's a HW in my book.

For background in weighed 173 and wrestled 189 and I was so extremely successful at it. So I might be bias but I also truly believe that forcing further UP a weight class would make for better fights.

I'll get off my soapbox. Agree or disagree?

I fucking miss open weight fights.

That's how NY state operates, right? They weight you a day or two before weigh-ins, and after, and you can't cut more than a certain % of body weight.

 

[egk]

Because it would be extremely risky to cut more weight than that on a same day weigh in. 5 to 7 pounds can be done safely, more than that would be very unhealthy. I'm guess I'm talking about the weight classes from 125 to 155, if your natural weight is closer to 170 or above you could cut a few more pounds then that safely on same day weigh ins.

I think you just answered the question as to why this might not be a good idea. Do you really think some fighters won't take the risk? I'm not even saying it IS a bad idea. Just pointing out that some of these guys aren't the sharpest tools in the shed and will do most anything if they think they can get an advantage. Cutting too much for same day weigh-ins would simply mean less time to recover adequately and might make it even more of a problem.

 

[rjmbrd]

and since then a method to circumvent that hydration test has been found tested and widely implemented.

Bozo, use some logic. The Data demonstrates we had many and frequent grave injuries from weight cutting. Now we do not, and this is at scale in US High Schools, not just college.

I know you have shit for brains but you should be capable of working this out. Student athletes were getting hurt, now they are not. That means the program works, because the point of the program is to prevent grave weight cutting injuries.

This is data driven, the rest is just fantasy bullshit you are making up.

Can you debate that in any way or are you gonna throw another temper tantrum and call me names like an angry toddler ?

your entire stance is based on burying your head in the sand and choosing to remain ignorant



Still talking about a different sport I see and have zero argument to the video which literally shows someone beating the test you are praising.

Continue to choose ignorance sir. Good luck with that.

If you ever want to join reality the method to beat the hydration test is demonstrated and explained at roughly 20 minutes into the MMA on Point video.

I offered you a debate and you had a temper tantrum.
Thats how this usually goes.
One side has facts and the other side has emotions.

You have no idea what you're talking about and are confidently incorrect.