Illa saying what I've been saying

[jeff7b9]

Bozo, use some logic. The Data demonstrates we had many and frequent grave injuries from weight cutting. Now we do not, and this is at scale in US High Schools, not just college.

I know you have shit for brains but you should be capable of working this out. Student athletes were getting hurt, now they are not. That means the program works, because the point of the program is to prevent grave weight cutting injuries.

This is data driven, the rest is just fantasy bullshit you are making up.






You have no idea what you're talking about and are confidently incorrect.

When you can not debate, call names.




You have no counter to the video which shows how to easily circumvent the hydration test.

 

[treelo]

When you can not debate, call names.




You have no counter to the video which shows how to easily circumvent the hydration test.

you were the one calling people crybabies because you cant wrap your simple minded head around the plain answers people have given you on how to stop the problem

just because you dont understand, doesnt mean it isnt the correct way

 

[jeff7b9]

you were the one calling people crybabies because you cant wrap your simple minded head around the plain answers people have given you on how to stop the problem

just because you dont understand, doesnt mean it isnt the correct way

What actual good idea has anyone suggested?

The only suggestions I have read were all based on ignoring reality or not thinking things through to the most likely outcomes.

You for example just keep repeating "Same day weigh ins" but you have no counter for the obvious repercussions of this which is that fighters would be fighting way more dehydrated and taking trauma to the brain in a dehydrated state.

the result would be significantly MORE harm and danger to fighters.

Do you have ANY counter argument?
Or are you just going to repeat the same bad idea again?

 

[treelo]

What actual good idea has anyone suggested?

dont fucking allow it, same day weigh in, tough shit if the fighters want to put themselves at severe risk of killing themselves

 

[jeff7b9]

dont fucking allow it, same day weigh in, tough shit if the fighters want to put themselves at severe risk of killing themselves

Ok.

So your stance is that you want more brain damage in the sport.

"Don't fucking allow it" translation: " I'm stamping my feet because I can't support my stance with reasoning or any sort of possible solution but I want things my way because I said so." - Treelo



Do you actually think that is a valid suggestion?

 

[rjmbrd]

When you can not debate, call names.




You have no counter to the video which shows how to easily circumvent the hydration test.

The video has no point. We have two decades of data from NCAA athletes. I'll reiterate it again because you're a moron:

1) A licensed medical doctor performs a physical examination.

2) You are weighed, tested with a caliper / skin fold, and take a specific gravity test.

STOP HERE. Realize that somehow tricking the hydration test will not change the result of your physical exam by a licensed doctor or your body fat. The fact that this needs to be spelled out to you again is hilarious.

3) You can gain a maximum of 1.5% body weight per week. This again makes hydration less important, as you would have to trick a medical doctor in addition to beating the specific gravity, and then maintain that twice a week for a season. This is such to say its a fantasy, not reality.

I was an NCAA athlete that wrestled under these weight cutting protocols. I'm not guess or asking, I'm telling you objectively the data proves student injury dropped virtually to zero since they were instituted. That is not an opinion.

Anecdotally I can tell you that it would require finding a crooked medical doctor who was willing to risk their license / board certification to certify you for a lower weight than you should be with the criteria. Hydration is just a single spoke in the wheel.

I would bet a substantial amount of money you have no personal experience with a weight cutting sport.

 

[jeff7b9]

The video has no point. We have two decades of data from NCAA athletes. I'll reiterate it again because you're a moron:

1) A licensed medical doctor performs a physical examination.

2) You are weighed, tested with a caliper / skin fold, and take a specific gravity test.

STOP HERE. Realize that somehow tricking the hydration test will not change the result of your physical exam by a licensed doctor or your body fat. The fact that this needs to be spelled out to you again is hilarious.

3) You can gain a maximum of 1.5% body weight per week. This again makes hydration less important, as you would have to trick a medical doctor in addition to beating the specific gravity, and then maintain that twice a week for a season. This is such to say its a fantasy, not reality.

I was an NCAA athlete that wrestled under these weight cutting protocols. I'm not guess or asking, I'm telling you objectively the data proves student injury dropped virtually to zero since they were instituted. That is not an opinion.

Anecdotally I can tell you that it would require finding a crooked medical doctor who was willing to risk their license / board certification to certify you for a lower weight than you should be with the criteria. Hydration is just a single spoke in the wheel.

I would bet a substantial amount of money you have no personal experience with a weight cutting sport.

The topic being debated is weight cutting in MIXED MARTIAL ARTS.

It is not NCAA wrestling which has a season within which those time constraints apply.

Everything you said will do nothing to stop the excessive water weight cutting from occurring in MMA

(and it can just as easily be circumvented in Wrestling and that is going on and has been for a long time.)


Additionally where are you getting the funding for twice weekly bodyfat percentage testing performed by a medical doctor on 600-700+ UFC fighters all over the world? The cost for that would be astronomical, aka cost prohibitive. The objective is an actual real world solution which would have benefits outweighing the drawbacks.


Your post actually beautifully supports my point that there are no easy and simple solutions. This is a very complex issue and the only realistic solutions which may or may not even prove to do more harm than good are going to be very complicated and difficult to execute, extremely expensive, unrealistically Intrusive and still it will be debatable if they even do ANYTHING to improve the situation.


Even if you do monitor the bodyfat % of 600+ athletes year round, what have you accomplished? You forced fighters to train depleted, introduced a significant about of additional stress

And they can STILL WATER CUT huge amounts of weight on fight week.

 

[rjmbrd]

The topic being debated is weight cutting in MIXED MARTIAL ARTS.

It is not NCAA wrestling which has a season within which those time constraints apply.

Hey bozo, its been proposed by multiple state athletic commissions that oversee MMA licensing that they consider adopting NCAA style weight cutting criteria.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Everything you said will do nothing to stop the excessive water weight cutting from occurring in MMA

(and it can just as easily be circumvented in Wrestling and that is going on and has been for a long time.)

It unequivocally does, you are just too uneducated and inexperienced on the topic to understand it. It is frankly bizarre to be writing about a topic you have no practical knowledge of, and be so confidentially incorrect.

What a weird thing to do. This is not a healthy use of your time.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

That's how NY state operates, right? They weight you a day or two before weigh-ins, and after, and you can't cut more than a certain % of body weight.

To my knowledge only California requires same day weigh ins
But their same day weigh ins are after the official weight is recorded.
PFL, as a promotion, had their own hydration rules.

 

[muaythaibeast]

So you choose the option which will lead to more health damage to the fighters on the naive and unrealistic hope that maybe the negative results of the DAMAGE you would choose to inflict upon the fighters outweighs the advantage of the weight that the fighters have already clearly demonstrated they will risk their health for?

Shall we just cross fighter safety off the list of reasons for the "we need to DO SOMETHING to solve weight cutting" side of the discussion then?

Always good to get to the truth. Good times.

It would do that in the short term. There is always short term pain to reach long term solutions.
Other than the occasional idiot who will still try to cut for an advantage, and lose badly in the process, this problem will be as good as resolved within 6 months

 

[UWPguy]

Kelvin was 21 here its not a fair comparison.

Brian Melancon retired due to kidney issues from weight cutting so that makes it even worse.

And he started having weight problems when he was 23 when he missed weight badly against Woodley in January 2015.

Him being "unable" to make 170 is simply from lack of discipline.

It is unfortunate for him because I truly believe if Kelvin never let himself get above 200 lbs, he could easily have been champ at WW.

 

[Captain Herb]

Ilia Topuria calls for UFC rule change to eradicate what Joe Rogan’s calls the ‘worst aspect' of MMA

Ilia Topuria has a plan to elimate weight cutting...

bloodyelbow.com

It's fucking stupid that super healthy guys weigh between 190 and 200 pounds dehydrated themselves and diminish their abilities to weigh 155 pounds just to have both guys weigh close basically 180 pounds when they actually fight. (I'm looking directly at you Islam and his short notice opponent in his last fight. I don't want to misspell his name). It's fucking stupid.

Control weight cutting. Just have the drug testers bring a scale with them. Illa says if you with heavier than 10% of your fighting class then your should move up. I'm more of a sliding scale. The heavier the class the more leeway should be given in my opinion. But if you weigh 230 pounds in shape out of camp you shouldn't be fighting at 185. Should be 205 or a damn HW. You shouldn't be breaking 170 pounds on the scale EVER and fight at 135. (I'm looking directly at Sean O'Malley and the 135 GOAT Cruz)

I never understood why people shit in Kelvin Gastelum. 185 IS HIS NATURAL WEIGHT. He doesn't want to destroy his kidneys to be aesthetically pleasing. He wants to be the most efficient fighter he could be and that was at 185 not 170. Everytime he made 170 he missed or had diminished results.

I'm a huge Jon Jones fan but his average in cage weight won't fighting at 205 was 227-232 pounds. That's a HW in my book.

For background in weighed 173 and wrestled 189 and I was so extremely successful at it. So I might be bias but I also truly believe that forcing further UP a weight class would make for better fights.

I'll get off my soapbox. Agree or disagree?

I fucking miss open weight fights.

Ronda would have been fighting at light heavy

 

[BroScienceTalkatWork]

Bad idea. Weight cutting is actually my favorite part of the sport.

I say lets trim the fat (AKA the actual fights) and just see who can cut the most weight.

 

[BigOlJeet]

Ilia looks small at 145, how the hell does he cut so much weight.
His bones must be made of steel, thus KO power.

His so called KO power isn’t gonna translate well at LW.

 

[World eater]

I’ve been waiting for someone to die due to the cut for years, but nothing so far. If it happens, maybe things will change.

 

[fzoid4454]

To my knowledge only California requires same day weigh ins
But their same day weigh ins are after the official weight is recorded.
PFL, as a promotion, had their own hydration rules.

N.Y. Comp. Codes R. & Regs. Tit. 19 § 208.14 - Weight loss​

• State Regulations
• Compare

No professional boxer or professional mixed martial artist shall participate in any contest or exhibition following weight loss of one percent or more of body weight within 24 hours prior to such contest or exhibition, unless otherwise authorized by the Commission. A combatant may be disapproved for participation in a match or exhibition if, in the professional medical opinion of the reviewing physician, it would be unsafe for the combatant to compete in the match or exhibition due to a finding of dehydration or extreme weight loss.