If weight matters that much than why don't all Heavyweights make weight at 265???

If you have two fighters exactly the same and make one of their frames and weight 25% larger, the larger version will triumph every time. It really is that simple.

I still cant believe theres people who cant get their heads around the fact that size matters.
 
Once you get above 6'4" and above 240 lbs there are diminishing returns. This is why almost all of the greatest HWs are under 6'4" and weighed between 225 - 245. Humans simply aren't meant to be that big.

This rule only applies to MMA though, as other sports are different.
 
wigglestick said:
that has nothing to do with my point did you even read my post? I was explaining that 10 lbs is an advantage to LWs and HWs which is true. bigfoots weight over cain was an advantage he just wasn't good enough to beat him. are you serious? you ended up explaining basic math because you didn't even read the full post :redface:
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But that's my point. (Which you missed) Its not true.

4 lbs is simply not a significant advantage. If a guy dosn't cut any weight at 155 and fights a guy that cut 4 lbs no one in their right minds would try to claim that the 159lb guy has a significant size advantage, because he simply does not. A 3% difference is not an advantage weather its at 155 or 255. Just because the number is bigger does not mean it equals a fighting advantage.

I agree with your point about bigfoot, which is why I didnt address it. I'm simply correcting you when you say silly things like a ten lb difference for a LW is the same as for a HW.
 
There is probably a point of diminishing returns. Most fighters seem to compete best at less than a super-muscled condition, and there aren't many guys with frames big enough to legitimately support 250+ without being super muscled.
 
You cant just add 25lb+ muscle like it is nothing. Unless you are taking "special vitamins" or eat "horse meat" all right you get the point. Unless you are on gear you cant add this type of muscle mass like it is nothing.

Cain and JDS would need to do body building type of workout without any cardio and take gear to gain +25-30lb of pure muscle. There is absolutaly no reason to do this.

Pure muscle means almost next to nothing in fighting. You need functional strength, speed and techniq.

Also Cain said in an interview with the Voice that he tried to get bigger but it wasnt working out. He said this is as big as he can get. (Obviously without gear or becoming just simply fat).

240lb you have more than enought KO power, it is a perfect fighting weight for a HW IMO.
 
Chaos Theory said:
If you have two fighters exactly the same and make one of their frames and weight 25% larger, the larger version will triumph every time. It really is that simple.

I still cant believe theres people who cant get their heads around the fact that size matters.
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Size does matter for sure. JDS would murder Dominic Cruz, but realy this is soo fucking obvious that I feel stupid to even write it down.

The point is that Cain wouldn't become a better fighter if he would pack up some muscle and fat to be 265lb. And a 240lb Cain would probably beat a 265lb Cain.

As I and many other has already said it, you have more than enough KO power in 240lb and you would only lose spead and cardio if you would become bigger.

It is completaly hypocretical to talk about XY fighter having a bigger frame. Frame is a given thing like the color of you eye or the size of you dick. You cant change it, you gotta deal with it...
 
Vale Tudo Brazi said:
Size does matter for sure. JDS would murder Dominic Cruz, but realy this is soo fucking obvious that I feel stupid to even write it down.

The point is that Cain wouldn't become a better fighter if he would pack up some muscle and fat to be 265lb. And a 240lb Cain would probably beat a 265lb Cain.

As I and many other has already said it, you have more than enough KO power in 240lb and you would only lose spead and cardio if you would become bigger.

It is completaly hypocretical to talk about XY fighter having a bigger frame. Frame is a given thing like the color of you eye or the size of you dick. You cant change it, you gotta deal with it...
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Isn't it funny that there are people who think there is some magic supplement that will just make their dick grow? That more than anything shows the problem with public school, that taxes go to educate people in science, yet they still think like an 1860's Indiana farm boy who doesn't know the difference between his left foot and his right foot.

It is similar too for the body change industry , like some supplement or training regimen is going to turn you into Gsp or Adrian Peterson. Eat right, exercise, and take care of yourself, but get real, your canvass is largely predetermined.
 
Because the talent pool and athleticism of fighters at 265 lbs is really thin. If you had the same pool as the NFL, then I bet most HW fighters would weigh in at 265.

There just aren't that many talented athletes at 265 lbs, and a lot of them would be playing other professional sports already if they were that talented. How many people do you personally know that are athletic at 265lbs?
 
Vale Tudo Brazi said:
Size does matter for sure. JDS would murder Dominic Cruz, but realy this is soo fucking obvious that I feel stupid to even write it down.

The point is that Cain wouldn't become a better fighter if he would pack up some muscle and fat to be 265lb. And a 240lb Cain would probably beat a 265lb Cain.

As I and many other has already said it, you have more than enough KO power in 240lb and you would only lose spead and cardio if you would become bigger.

It is completaly hypocretical to talk about XY fighter having a bigger frame. Frame is a given thing like the color of you eye or the size of you dick. You cant change it, you gotta deal with it...
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awesome last paragraph
 
Its not their natural sizes...and they would be much slower
 
First, size does matter. Second, there is a threshhold where the benefits of extra strength and inertia that come with the additional weight are not worth the cost in diminished speed, agility and cardio.

Big muscles eat a lot of oxygen and you can put on 20-30 lbs of muscle easier than you can make your heart and lungs better.
 
Some big guys over the 220 pounds range have to be at a weight they feel fast and strong.

There was a lineman at my high school that weigh 330 pounds when he got to D1 college. He was a second stringer for 2 years then finally got a few starts when he dropped to 305. HE said he didnt get that much faster but didnt feel like his was at a good weight before. Said he just felt awkward.

I am sure cain can put on some weight and get to 265. But a good portion of that would need to be muscle and muscles needs more oxygen. Plus cain moves very fast for a heavyweight and hits hard. Why would he risk losing speed if he adds more weight.

Weight does matter. But a athletes still needs to be comfortable with his weight a good combination of speed and size.

Even NFL lineman who are paid to be huge say that they need to be at a weight, speed and strength that lets them do their job. Some lineman actually try different weights for their redshirt years to find out what is their best playing weight. Some times that means adding or losing pounds.
 
I think their is a trade off between speed, power and stamina.
 
Every page of this thread is a repeat of the page before. Is anyone actually reading it??
 
jn677 said:
This isnt true.

It's just different in the heavyweight division. Outside of cain, they have smaller gas tanks so they have to conserve energy. They have to fight in bursts and can't always do what the smaller guys can but it has nothing to do with skill. It's just physical limitations.

It's like how the smaller guys are physically limited when it comes to power.
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It's 100% true and only die hard's won't admit it. Here's how I know its true. Look at LW for example or even WW. The top 10 guys in those divisions have a great mix of skills striking, wrestling, conditioning, and ground games. How many HW's have truly evolved games like that? The answer is not many.
 
Glnick said:
Yeah I guess you are right
350l8r5.jpg
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I am right, Brock was garbage and had zero skill compared to Cain.

If you had a clone of Cain, with a larger, stronger body, but with the same speed and skills,.. he would slaughter normal Cain.
 
Glnick said:
UFC 166 is coming up the 2 heavyweights Cain and Junior probably the best in the HW division are facing each other ,both of them weigh in around 240,but why these guys don't choose to weigh 265 for the weigh in day and probably come 275-280 in the fight day if weight is that important?
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At a certain point extra size starts to cause guys to be less athletic and slower, and have less endurance, and that point disadvantages starts to outweigh the size/strength advantage that a bigger guy tends to have.

Also, they have to go with the frame that they have. For Cain of JDS to get up to that size they would have to gain a lot of weight in either muscle of fat, either of which would cost them a lot in speed and stamina.
 
OmegaRugal said:
Diminishing returns.

The bigger the human body gets ... you start to sacrifice speed and agility.

The best athletes in the world that can maintain speed and power at a high weight normally go to a sport where they get paid more (ie Football, Baseball).

Brock was one of the rare exceptions of a 265lb man that can move that fast in the UFC.

Fedor, Cain, JDS, ... these heavyweights have almost as much power in their striking as any 265lb HW ... while also being far far faster.

Size matters ... but like with everything ... its not a simple black/white thing. There are shades of grey and other variables that matter.
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yep speed and strength/power > size unless the bigger guy has the same speed and just as strong
 
Toxxus said:
First, size does matter. Second, there is a threshhold where the benefits of extra strength and inertia that come with the additional weight are not worth the cost in diminished speed, agility and cardio.

Big muscles eat a lot of oxygen and you can put on 20-30 lbs of muscle easier than you can make your heart and lungs better.
Click to expand...

This man is absolutely right.
 
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