If weight matters that much than why don't all Heavyweights make weight at 265???

[ermac88]

Then why are so many LHW's scared to fight at HW?

A ton of LHWs are around 240lbs naturally ... so what are they scared of if the HW division is so weak?

I doubt its fear man. These guys are getting punched in the face by 200 pound men.

Its probably more a matter of functionality.
Can they perform as well with an additional few pounds?

Different people, especially athletes have optimum performance weights.

 

[SnowBlynd]

It's pretty hard to get to a functional 265 without being a fat shit.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I am right, Brock was garbage and had zero skill compared to Cain.

If you had a clone of Cain, with a larger, stronger body, but with the same speed and skills,.. he would slaughter normal Cain.

Think of it as a muscle car. If you have too much power in too light of a car, you just spin the wheels. You have to balance your physical gifts to get the most out of your body. A bigger Cain would be out of balance.

 

[The Real Pedro]

size means nothing

Lol, ever try wrestling a lug 50 lbs heavier than you?

 

[countswagula]

Proportion. A 20lb difference between a 150lb man and a 170lb man is more significant than the one between a 250lb and a 270lb one.

 

[HIMBOB]

Its a shallow division,

I think that until almost all HWs need to cut (even slightly) you can safely say it is a shallow division.
Simply because the Great big man beats the Great small man, but the great small man beats to good big man.

 

[countswagula]

Its a shallow division,

I think that until almost all HWs need to cut (even slightly) you can safely say it is a shallow division.
Simply because the Great big man beats the Great small man, but the great small man beats to good big man.

I don't know about that. Size will only get you so far until you start giving up important things like endurance.

 

[OmegaRugal]

I doubt its fear man. These guys are getting punched in the face by 200 pound men.

Its probably more a matter of functionality.
Can they perform as well with an additional few pounds?

Different people, especially athletes have optimum performance weights.

LHW don't weight 205 during fight night.

They weight 215 or more.

That is HW weight ... so if HW is so shallow... and size doesn't matter ... none of these LHWs would cut weight. They would all just fight at their natural weight of 220 or so.

But they choose not to because they know they have a greater chance of getting KTFO at HW.

 

[HIMBOB]

I don't know about that. Size will only get you so far until you start giving up important things like endurance.

That is 100% true if you are unaturally big, but if you are meant to be that size I don't think it is the case.

For exmaple, I am naturally about 170 give or take, I have the heart, lungs, bone structure and musculture to support being this size. If I stack on muscle to get to say 200 my heart, lungs and bone structure do not increase in proportion to the muscle gain as such I can not support that extra weight.

BUT if I was a substancially larger person, like say Brock, or perhaps some guys in the NBA (shaq for instance) I could be over 265 without being unnatrually big for my frame and as such I would have the heart, lungs and bone structure to support my weight.

People come in very different sizes and the guys that big and who are the exceptional athletes that MMA requires can often make substancially more in other more common sports that they get started with and excel at from a much younger age.

 

[Concrete]

LHW don't weight 205 during fight night.

They weight 215 or more.

That is HW weight ... so if HW is so shallow... and size doesn't matter ... none of these LHWs would cut weight. They would all just fight at their natural weight of 220 or so.

But they choose not to because they know they have a greater chance of getting KTFO at HW.

To flip it around, Velasquez and Cormier and both chunky LHWs, who took the path you're talking about, and they are dominating the division.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

It's pretty hard to get to a functional 265 without being a fat shit.

This. Brock was the only very athletic guy who had to cut to 265 (who also had a gas tank). Maybe Carwin pre-UFC but he ended up being more in the 250-255 range.

 

[UJustGotChaeld]

Get someone who is 8 feet tall, and has normal body proportions, and weighs 280 and cuts to 265 and you will see weight matters.

Simply adding muscle to add weight and throw your body proportions out of whack isn't beneficial.

 

[THECYNDlCATE]

Think of it as a muscle car. If you have too much power in too light of a car, you just spin the wheels. You have to balance your physical gifts to get the most out of your body. A bigger Cain would be out of balance.

And that's exactly why I said while keeping his speed and attributes.

If two people have exactly the same EVERYTHING,.. except for one is bigger and stronger,.. than the bigger/stronger guy wins.

It's pretty simple.

 

[Legendary]

Because 15 lbs isn't going to make much of a difference if your 250 fighting a guy 265, but if your fighting at lets say 135, 15 pounds is a HUGE difference. Plus most heavyweights can't get that big anyways.

 

[KarmaPolice]

And that's exactly why I said while keeping his speed and attributes.

If two people have exactly the same EVERYTHING,.. except for one is bigger and stronger,.. than the bigger/stronger guy wins.

It's pretty simple.

But if Cain packed on 25 more pounds, he wouldn't have the same speed and cardio. Brock was a freak to have speed and cardio at his size, but he didn't have anywhere near the skills of Cain. You can't just say take Cain and make him bigger, it throws off all the balance of his skills.

 

[THECYNDlCATE]

But if Cain packed on 25 more pounds, he wouldn't have the same speed and cardio. Brock was a freak to have speed and cardio at his size, but he didn't have anywhere near the skills of Cain. You can't just say take Cain and make him bigger, it throws off all the balance of his skills.

Yes I can say that,.. because that's the entire point of the post.

If you cloned Cain. but made him larger and stronger. with the exact same attributes he has right now,.. than the new larger and stronger Cain would win.

That's a pretty simple concept to grasp.

Now if you took Cain and had him gain weight, then yes, he will lose some of his attributes.

But if some other guy came into the division. with the same attributes as Cain, but he was bigger and stronger,.. then he would win the contest.

It does matter.

 

[countswagula]

That is 100% true if you are unaturally big, but if you are meant to be that size I don't think it is the case.

For exmaple, I am naturally about 170 give or take, I have the heart, lungs, bone structure and musculture to support being this size. If I stack on muscle to get to say 200 my heart, lungs and bone structure do not increase in proportion to the muscle gain as such I can not support that extra weight.

BUT if I was a substancially larger person, like say Brock, or perhaps some guys in the NBA (shaq for instance) I could be over 265 without being unnatrually big for my frame and as such I would have the heart, lungs and bone structure to support my weight.

People come in very different sizes and the guys that big and who are the exceptional athletes that MMA requires can often make substancially more in other more common sports that they get started with and excel at from a much younger age.

Who would you say is naturally 260 and up? I mean, guys like Carwin, Brock and Overeem all had cardio issues at that weight. Bigfoot is the only "genuinely" big guy with decent endurance that comes to mind, and even then he gives up something else, speed.

 

[HIMBOB]

Who would you say is naturally 260 and up? I mean, guys like Carwin, Brock and Overeem all had cardio issues at that weight. Bigfoot is the only "genuinely" big guy with decent endurance that comes to mind, and even then he gives up something else, speed.

Look to the NBA and you will see the guys I am talking about.

I think Brocks cardio was fine, I have never questioned him on that.

Carwin wasn't naturally that big and Reem certainly isn't.

 

[savemgs]

Because 15 lbs isn't going to make much of a difference if your 250 fighting a guy 265, but if your fighting at lets say 135, 15 pounds is a HUGE difference. Plus most heavyweights can't get that big anyways.

not its not
Jens Pulver
Divisions
Flyweight (2012

 

[SH3LTON]

nice thread