If NFL is A level athleticism

[ermac88]

Just between us, do you personally believe that if Jon were to fight Arthur that Arthur would win or even do well? For starters, the weight difference is almost entirely fat, Arthur has no actual fight experience, and Jones is the GOAT. Whatever he did to Jon as children is irrelevant (unless Jon's carrying some psychological baggage with him from back then or conversely some serious motivation to whoop his bro's fat ass). Play wrestling means nothing. Jonny was a JuCo national champ, Arthur was a high school state champ in New York. He trained at Jackson-Wink for a little over a month during the 2011 lockout and visited sporadically after that for a couple years but he has not returned in years and is not on the same level as Jon in terms of fighting skill. Or even close. And at 33 he never will be. Arthur is shorter, fatter, and has been retired from football for 2 years and is in no way, shape, or form the better athlete. Jon can big both his brothers up as much as he wants, as family members always seem to do, but the cold hard reality is that if Jon wants to whoop either one of them it's gonna happen. Or at least that's by far the most likely scenario.

That's my take.

Jon is the best fighter ive ever seen by far.

As I stated earlier, Ive never seen Arthur fight in an mma setting.

 

[Khaiser]

Well no duh.

So now you are agreeing with me. Yet when you were saying that soccer/futbal players can run faster than American Football players, you were posting videos of them dribbling the ball downfield as a measure of their speed.

Someone's ability to Dunk is a display of their vertical leap. Just like running downfield is a display of their speed. They aren't measured in real time, but with today's technology, they can be measured in replay. Which is why I accepted the video you posted as a display of the soccer players speed since you couldn't find any actual measured time like a 40 or 100 m dash.

You say there is no advantage of using someone's ability to dunk as a measure of their vertical leap over a vertical leap test without a ball. I can tell you, that is factually incorrect. In Basketball, there are advantages of seeing a player dunk over seeing his vertical leap tested. I'll give you 2 examples of that.

1) Vertical leaps are tested in place without any momentum. Most dunks in the NBA are not in place. A basketball player's ability to elevate is increased when the player is in motion. So for example, Dr.J isn't going to jump from the free throw line and dunk in place, but he can with a running start.

2) Dunking show a players ability to control the ball. It is more difficult to dunk the ball than to just do a standard vertical leap. & because the game requires you to handle the ball, you get more information from seeing Dunks in basketball than from a standard vertical leap. Dunking is basically a display of an athletes vertical elevation with the added work of controlling the basketball and being able to dunk while defenders are trying to stop you.

So yes, Dunking is an excellent way to see an athlete's ability to elevate. It is literally a display of an athlete's vertical prowess. Players who are dunking the basketball tend to surpass the elevations of their tested vertical leap. In other words, they jump even higher when they are dunking.

I have no idea what video you are referring to, as I have never posted one on this site.

I have no doubt the ability to dunk is a good measure of vertical leap for basketball players. My entire point - and I can’t simplify this any further for you - it’s a terrible measure of lower body explosiveness for a non-basketball player. We have people here claiming Jones is a poor athlete because he can’t dunk a ball; the question anyone with at least a double digit IQ should be asking is, why should he be able to dunk a ball?

Muay Thai fighters have some of the most explosive hips and kicks in the sporting world. It’s a sport full of guys who could kick harder than any NBA player twice their size. Give them a basketball to dunk and the vast majority would be fish out of water.

 

[Khaiser]

I see the resident retard is doubling down on the belief that an athletic non fighter could beat up an athletic all time great fighter, without actually having the balls to say it <45>

 

[Khaiser]

holy fuck <45><45><45><45>


I just Googled Arthur Jones, expecting to see at minimum an Anthony Joshua level physique on display <Lmaoo>


This is your mythical ‘A-level’ athlete?!

The fat fucker couldn’t win a fight with diabetes, never might Jon fucking Jones <45>

I’m actually shook. I though NFL players being faster than Usain Bolt was the dumbest claim I’ve heard in here, but now I’m considering awarding that to the idea that a fat ass American footballer could beat up an all time great fighter <45>

Ah son, you’ve made my night <45>

 

[Khaiser]

Please tell me this isn’t actually him <Lmaoo>

 

[Khaiser]

Now I see why Jon is the so called ‘runt’ of the family. He’s the only one of 3 siblings who ain’t clinically obese

 

[Khaiser]

Just between us, do you personally believe that if Jon were to fight Arthur that Arthur would win or even do well? For starters, the weight difference is almost entirely fat, Arthur has no actual fight experience, and Jones is the GOAT. Whatever he did to Jon as children is irrelevant (unless Jon's carrying some psychological baggage with him from back then or conversely some serious motivation to whoop his bro's fat ass). Play wrestling means nothing. Jonny was a JuCo national champ, Arthur was a high school state champ in New York. He trained at Jackson-Wink for a little over a month during the 2011 lockout and visited sporadically after that for a couple years but he has not returned in years and is not on the same level as Jon in terms of fighting skill. Or even close. And at 33 he never will be. Arthur is shorter, fatter, and has been retired from football for 2 years and is in no way, shape, or form the better athlete. Jon can big both his brothers up as much as he wants, as family members always seem to do, but the cold hard reality is that if Jon wants to whoop either one of them it's gonna happen. Or at least that's by far the most likely scenario.

That's my take.

That’s the take of any non-retarded individual tbf, not just yours.

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

holy fuck <45><45><45><45>


I just Googled Arthur Jones, expecting to see at minimum an Anthony Joshua level physique on display <Lmaoo>


This is your mythical ‘A-level’ athlete?!

The fat fucker couldn’t win a fight with diabetes, never might Jon fucking Jones <45>

I’m actually shook. I though NFL players being faster than Usain Bolt was the dumbest claim I’ve heard in here, but now I’m considering awarding that to the idea that a fat ass American footballer could beat up an all time great fighter <45>

Ah son, you’ve made my night <45>

Heh, I take it you ain't a handegg fan?

Yeah, like I already said, Arthur is a pear-shaped Grimace lookalike that'd have a heart attack climbing a flight of stairs at this point in life. He's been retired for a couple years now, and the time away from sport hasn't exactly done wonders for his BMI either.

Jon cuts through big bro like a hot knife through butter... or lard, in this case.

 

[Blacksonville]

The answer to that is simple common sense.. Huge as a hobby and sport, not as a career choice. But we have had multiple Chinese NBA players, most of whom either started or got significant playing time, while in the NBA. The sport of Soccer is huge in Africa, yet you do not see African's dominating Soccer.. same reason, huge as a sport and hobby, but not a realistic career choice with no promises.

Bizarre premise.
How is it not viable as a career path? The NBA is not shut out to them. They have 1) shitloads of participants and 2) an enormous talent pool of a billion people and 3) great passion for the sport, yet in spite of that, they're not proportionally represented, save for a few outliers.

Your 'hobby' thesis might hold up if this were 1963 and they were stuck behind the iron curtain, but they're not.

So, again, why isn't China dominating the NBA?

 

[jeremyemilio]

Barry Sanders had asthma and he is considered one of the best running backs ever.

FTFY

 

[Khaiser]

Heh, I take it you ain't a handegg fan?

Yeah, like I already said, Arthur is a pear-shaped Grimace lookalike that'd have a heart attack climbing a flight of stairs at this point in life. He's been retired for a couple years now, and the time away from sport hasn't exactly done wonders for his BMI either.

Jon cuts through big bro like a hot knife through butter... or lard, in this case.

Never really given it much of a chance tbh, it simply wasn’t accessible to someone growing up in the UK in the 90’s.

That said, I don’t doubt for a minute that it produces some of these mythical ‘A-level’ athletes. Probably as many as football or rugby on a proportional basis or most other high level, ball focused, team sports. Not quite much crossover potential for MMA as rugby has, but probably more than real football.

I’m just skeptical that a clinically obese NFL player (or any of them for that matter) could wake up one day and think, “I fancy trying my hand at fighting today” and beat the best fighter in the world by the mid-afternoon.

 

[Takamine86]

I have no idea what video you are referring to, as I have never posted one on this site.

I have no doubt the ability to dunk is a good measure of vertical leap for basketball players. My entire point - and I can’t simplify this any further for you - it’s a terrible measure of lower body explosiveness for a non-basketball player. We have people here claiming Jones is a poor athlete because he can’t dunk a ball; the question anyone with at least a double digit IQ should be asking is, why should he be able to dunk a ball?

Muay Thai fighters have some of the most explosive hips and kicks in the sporting world. It’s a sport full of guys who could kick harder than any NBA player twice their size. Give them a basketball to dunk and the vast majority would be fish out of water.

It wasn't a video per se but the data or KPH they were able to determine for Arjen Robben speed came from Data collected by examining video footage of him. So the point remains the example you provided to measure the speed of soccer/futball players came from clips of soccer players dribbling down field.


So on one hand, you're telling me dunking/dribbling isn't a good way to measure athletic ability as you did in this post.

The point I’m making is that if you want to test someone’s vertical leap, using their ability to slam dunk is a poor method. It would be akin to testing their sprint speed by asking them to dribble a football.

On the other hand, the examples of speed you are providing of Soccer/futball players dribbling downfield as you did in this post

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-to-score-hollands-fifth-against-spain-438258

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....r-his-goal-against-sociedad-20170918.amp.html

As I said, they’re doing this while covering about 12km per game on average, while dribbling a football. It’s simply outstanding.

The most telling thing here is how many are actually surprised by the fact that real footballers fucking rapid <45>

But with that said, our definition of athletes is conflicted with yours. That is why there is a misunderstanding when you say dunking isn't a good measure for athlete's vertical. Because here, most athletes play multiple sports growing up, it is a matter of choosing one for a profession. Guys in the NFL/NBA more like played both sports growing up as well as multiple sports such as wrestling, track and field, baseball etc. That's what athletes here do. So when we say "Athlete" we say it in terms of that person can excel in almost any sport they dedicate themselves to.

So when you say an athlete from another sport would be a fish out of water dunking, that doesn't compute with us. The majority of the guys in the NFL can dunk because the majority of athletes here compete in multiple sports growing up. Even the fat boys you guys like to make front of so much and short 5'8 manlet slot wide receivers like Cole Beasley.





Jon Jones is considered the runt of the family because that is what he is. He was the least athletic of his brothers and the least recruited as an athlete. The whole point about Jon's inability to dunk has nothing to do with dunking and everything to do with gauging his vertical which is a measure of his explosive power output. The kind of output that allows wrestlers like GSP to have such an explosive double. If holding the ball is still an issue for you, Jon jumped an attempted to touch the rim without the ball before attempted to dunk. It is clear that he doesn't have much of a vertical and not very explosive. But Jon was wearing jeans and was casually hanging out not in competitive mode so I will cut him some slack and say we still haven't seen his max vert. His younger brother however could dunk in high school. He played multiple sports. Chandler's combine results showed he has a 35 inch vertical, very explosive for a man with his height and weight. 6'5 265 pounds and a 35 inch vert.

So Chandler Jones is taller than Jon, weighs more than Jon, stronger than Jon, has a better reach than Jon, he is more explosive, and he has shown an ability to excel in multiple sports. So here, Chandler is considered more athletic. In terms of MMA, what Jon has over chandler is skill and technique. Both of which can be taught. After the skill gap closes, other attributes come into play. Like athleticism, something which cannot be taught.

As for Arthur Jones, he was an undefeated wrestler in high school unlike Jon. He was a better wrestler growing up Arthur is a two-time New York state HS champion in wrestling. He chose football over wrestling, which is often the case here. Here are some very outdated lists of NFL athletes with wrestling backgrounds.
http://www.sectiononewrestling.com/documents/nfl_players_wrestled.html
https://uselitecombat.com/hey-coach-arent-football-players-wrestling-nfl-players-wrestled/
As you can see, there are a bunch of wrestling champions in the NFL. As I said, I can't speak for other countries, but the athletes here go where the money is. All these wrestling champions chose the NFL.

I know everyone likes to make front of Arthur's weight but just remember that Gut Fedor is the HW Goat of MMA. Gut DC is the former HW champion. Tim Sylvia is one of the most successful HW champions in UFC history. Miocic is the current UFC champion and he comes from Baseball. So history has shown us a fat guys can become a champion in the UFC and so can a ball sport athlete like Miocic. As for conditioning, Brock Lesnar who doesn't have the best conditioning and he was Champion. Ironically, all these muscle bound guys are who we see gassing most often, not the fat boys. You can have a gut and still be well conditioned and very athletic for you size. & If you are a dominant wrestler, you can control the fight even against better conditioned fighters. Kind of like how Nick Diaz has triathlete level conditioning but many of the WW wrestlers could still hold him down for 5 rounds.

Now with all that said, saying Jon's brothers are more athletic than him doesn't mean Jon isn't athletic in his own right. He is still one of the more athletic guys in MMA. Jon is an anomaly for the sport, you don't see guys with that kind of frame (Height/reach) with such dominant wrestling, in that regard, he is very athletic. Usually the taller guys lack wrestling and are weaker in terms of Grappling and that is how they are exploited. That is how Fedor beat Semmy closed the distance and exploited the Semmy's grappling weakness. In Jon's case, he is arguably the strongest wrestler and the better grappler as well. That gives him a huge advantage, in the standup he has the range advantage and pick you apart from the outside. So you have to close the distance to even damage him. When you do get in close on him, you are in grappling territory where Jon is also better as wrestling is his biggest strength. He is very durable as shown from the 1st Gus fight and the shots he took from DC. From a strategic standpoint, that is why Jon is so hard to beat.

 

[Khaiser]

I’ll be honest and say I’m not going to read all of that.

I’ll keep my response short and sweet - the ability to dunk a basketball is a poor measure of an athletes lower body explosiveness for anyone who hasn’t dunked a basketball before. Thai fighters, sprinters, kick-boxers, gymnasts, will all have a claim to being some of the most explosive athletes on the planet when it comes to hips and legs. Again, saying “well it works for American athletes” is really the main issue here - the world is bigger than America with A-level athletes found across pretty much every major sport. Believe it or not, plenty of them will never have played a game of basketball in their lives, some won’t even have held one.

That’s literally my only point with regards to dunking - it’s a sport specific skill that would be a terrible measure of vertical leap for someone not well versed in basketball.

I’m no longer going to entertain the idea that some random, retired NFL fat-ass could beat a highly trained guy like Jones in a fight. The suggestion is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Takamine86]

Hold on, you guys count baseball as an athletically demanding sport???! <45>

It's not as demanding as football or basketball, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have many great athletes. Miocic who is the current HW champion comes from Baseball.

 

[Khaiser]

It's not as demanding as baseball or basketball, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have many great athletes. Miocic who is the current HW champion comes from Baseball.

I would agree. The same can be said for the vast Majority of high level sports.

 

[Takamine86]

holy fuck <45><45><45><45>


I just Googled Arthur Jones, expecting to see at minimum an Anthony Joshua level physique on display <Lmaoo>


This is your mythical ‘A-level’ athlete?!

The fat fucker couldn’t win a fight with diabetes, never might Jon fucking Jones <45>

I’m actually shook. I though NFL players being faster than Usain Bolt was the dumbest claim I’ve heard in here, but now I’m considering awarding that to the idea that a fat ass American footballer could beat up an all time great fighter <45>

Ah son, you’ve made my night <45>

MMA's HW goat.

Maybe don't worry about physique, Arthur Jones is very athletic for his size and has a wrestling background.

 

[jptmma]

Doesn't the best soccer player in the world have a hormone deficiency or something...

 

[Takamine86]

I’ll be honest and say I’m not going to read all of that.

I’ll keep my response short and sweet - the ability to dunk a basketball is a poor measure of an athletes lower body explosiveness for anyone who hasn’t dunked a basketball before. Thai fighters, sprinters, kick-boxers, gymnasts, will all have a claim to being some of the most explosive athletes on the planet when it comes to hips and legs. Again, saying “well it works for American athletes” is really the main issue here - the world is bigger than America with A-level athletes found across pretty much every major sport. Believe it or not, plenty of them will never have played a game of basketball in their lives, some won’t even have held one.

That’s literally my only point with regards to dunking - it’s a sport specific skill that would be a terrible measure of vertical leap for someone not well versed in basketball.

I’m no longer going to entertain the idea that some random, retired NFL fat-ass could beat a highly trained guy like Jones in a fight. The suggestion is utterly ridiculous.

If you concede, that is fine with me.

It's only a couple paragraphs, you've read 10-20 times that much yesterday alone. I can even separate it for you if you'd like so it doesn't seem like a lot of words. Just let me know if that will help.

 

[Khaiser]

If you concede, that is fine with me.

It's only a couple paragraphs, you've read 10-20 times that much yesterday alone. I can even separate it for you if you'd like so it doesn't seem like a lot of words. Just let me know if that will help.

I appreciate the sarcastic tone as much as anyone, but I’m not trying to be condescending when I say I’m can’t be arsed reading it.

It might be a brilliant post, I simply don’t care enough to read it.

My point is a simple one - using someone’s ability to slam dunk a basketball as a measure of their vertical leap (or more broadly athletic ability) is a poor one as it disadvantages this who haven’t played basketball.

 

[KeyboardFighter]

It wasn't a video per se but the data or KPH they were able to determine for Arjen Robben speed came from Data collected by examining video footage of him. So the point remains the example you provided to measure the speed of soccer/futball players came from clips of soccer players dribbling down field.


So on one hand, you're telling me dunking/dribbling isn't a good way to measure athletic ability as you did in this post.



On the other hand, the examples of speed you are providing of Soccer/futball players dribbling downfield as you did in this post



But with that said, our definition of athletes is conflicted with yours. That is why there is a misunderstanding when you say dunking isn't a good measure for athlete's vertical. Because here, most athletes play multiple sports growing up, it is a matter of choosing one for a profession. Guys in the NFL/NBA more like played both sports growing up as well as multiple sports such as wrestling, track and field, baseball etc. That's what athletes here do. So when we say "Athlete" we say it in terms of that person can excel in almost any sport they dedicate themselves to.

So when you say an athlete from another sport would be a fish out of water dunking, that doesn't compute with us. The majority of the guys in the NFL can dunk because the majority of athletes here compete in multiple sports growing up. Even the fat boys you guys like to make front of so much and short 5'8 manlet slot wide receivers like Cole Beasley.





Jon Jones is considered the runt of the family because that is what he is. He was the least athletic of his brothers and the least recruited as an athlete. The whole point about Jon's inability to dunk has nothing to do with dunking and everything to do with gauging his vertical which is a measure of his explosive power output. The kind of output that allows wrestlers like GSP to have such an explosive double. If holding the ball is still an issue for you, Jon jumped an attempted to touch the rim without the ball before attempted to dunk. It is clear that he doesn't have much of a vertical and not very explosive. But Jon was wearing jeans and was casually hanging out not in competitive mode so I will cut him some slack and say we still haven't seen his max vert. His younger brother however could dunk in high school. He played multiple sports. Chandler's combine results showed he has a 35 inch vertical, very explosive for a man with his height and weight. 6'5 265 pounds and a 35 inch vert.

So Chandler Jones is taller than Jon, weighs more than Jon, stronger than Jon, has a better reach than Jon, he is more explosive, and he has shown an ability to excel in multiple sports. So here, Chandler is considered more athletic. In terms of MMA, what Jon has over chandler is skill and technique. Both of which can be taught. After the skill gap closes, other attributes come into play. Like athleticism, something which cannot be taught.

As for Arthur Jones, he was an undefeated wrestler in high school unlike Jon. He was a better wrestler growing up Arthur is a two-time New York state HS champion in wrestling. He chose football over wrestling, which is often the case here. Here are some very outdated lists of NFL athletes with wrestling backgrounds.
http://www.sectiononewrestling.com/documents/nfl_players_wrestled.html
https://uselitecombat.com/hey-coach-arent-football-players-wrestling-nfl-players-wrestled/
As you can see, there are a bunch of wrestling champions in the NFL. As I said, I can't speak for other countries, but the athletes here go where the money is. All these wrestling champions chose the NFL.

I know everyone likes to make front of Arthur's weight but just remember that Gut Fedor is the HW Goat of MMA. Gut DC is the former HW champion. Tim Sylvia is one of the most successful HW champions in UFC history. Miocic is the current UFC champion and he comes from Baseball. So history has shown us a fat guys can become a champion in the UFC and so can a ball sport athlete like Miocic. As for conditioning, Brock Lesnar who doesn't have the best conditioning and he was Champion. Ironically, all these muscle bound guys are who we see gassing most often, not the fat boys. You can have a gut and still be well conditioned and very athletic for you size. & If you are a dominant wrestler, you can control the fight even against better conditioned fighters. Kind of like how Nick Diaz has triathlete level conditioning but many of the WW wrestlers could still hold him down for 5 rounds.

Now with all that said, saying Jon's brothers are more athletic than him doesn't mean Jon isn't athletic in his own right. He is still one of the more athletic guys in MMA. Jon is an anomaly for the sport, you don't see guys with that kind of frame (Height/reach) with such dominant wrestling, in that regard, he is very athletic. Usually the taller guys lack wrestling and are weaker in terms of Grappling and that is how they are exploited. That is how Fedor beat Semmy closed the distance and exploited the Semmy's grappling weakness. In Jon's case, he is arguably the strongest wrestler and the better grappler as well. That gives him a huge advantage, in the standup he has the range advantage and pick you apart from the outside. So you have to close the distance to even damage him. When you do get in close on him, you are in grappling territory where Jon is also better as wrestling is his biggest strength. He is very durable as shown from the 1st Gus fight and the shots he took from DC. From a strategic standpoint, that is why Jon is so hard to beat.

Damn you really wrote a novel here. Here they talk about who is more athletic straight from the horses mouth, as they say in America. Doesn't seem clear cut.