If NFL is A level athleticism

[ermac88]

That's what I said ffs. But this is besides the point. You seem to put all emphasize on athletecism and when the type of athletes come in from Basketball and NFL a guy with the skill of Marcelo Garcia will never overcome the athleticism of those guys? It's your view?

Nope
only that
superior athlete skill > inferior athlete with same skill

In the US, superior athletes go to bigger sports.

ie. the Jones bros

 

[KeyboardFighter]

Nope
only that
superior athlete skill > inferior athlete with same skill

In the US, superior athletes go to bigger sports.

ie. the Jones bros

You are being obtuse. You really don't see the point I'm trying to make? Sorry but it's hard to discuss with you if you don't try to understand me.

 

[ermac88]

You are being obtuse. You really don't see the point I'm trying to make? Sorry but it's hard to discuss with you if you don't try to understand me.

I wasnt aware you were trying make a point.
You keep asking questions which I try to answer as simply and concisely as possible with examples
Its kind of a basic concept.

If you have a point, feel free to state it.

 

[KeyboardFighter]

It is recorded that Stefan Holm only has a 24 inch vertical. That is not very explosive



Honestly though, look into plyometrics for athletes. From Football, Basketball, Weightlifting, Tennis, Gymanstics, Wrestling, MMA, Rugby, etc. Jump training is how athletes measure and excel in their explosive power output. That is why GSP's double was so explosive.

How did they measure that? Seems to be jumping plenty high in the video to me.

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

Your conflating another discussion, please dont confuse yourself further on it.
Jon Jones and his brothers (Arthur) stated it, not me.

Just relayed what these pro athletes have said. Infer from it, what you can.

Do you truly believe that in a fist fight Arthur and Chandler Jones can beat Jon? Families say all sorts of things to compliment each other and if Jonny's saying his bros, who just play football and do a little 'rasslin' in the off-season for cross-training purposes, can beat the GOAT in a fight you absolutely have to realize that this is an untrue statement. I've never seen Jonny say this either. He stated that his bros were better athletes (I would disagree, but whatever) and he said his big bro Arthur used to beat him up when they were kids as all big bros worth their salt do. I have never seen Jonny say that this could still happen because there is no way that pear-shaped, Grimace-looking blob Arthur would do anything but get pieced up for as long as that fight lasted.

If you honestly believe that they can then I have to question your breadth of knowledge regarding MMA.

 

[ermac88]

Do you truly believe that in a fist fight Arthur and Chandler Jones can beat Jon? Families say all sorts of things to compliment each other and if Jonny's saying his bros, who just play football and do a little 'rasslin' in the off-season for cross-training purposes, can beat the GOAT in a fight you absolutely have to realize that this is an untrue statement. I've never seen Jonny say this either. He stated that his bros were better athletes (I would disagree, but whatever) and he said his big bro Arthur used to beat him up when they were kids as all big bros worth their salt do. I have never seen Jonny say that this could still happen because there is no way that pear-shaped, Grimace-looking blob Arthur would do anything but get pieced up for as long as that fight lasted.

If you honestly believe that they can then I have to question your breadth of knowledge regarding MMA.

You didnt read what I wrote-

"Just relayed what these pro athletes have said. Infer from it, what you can."

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

The whole dunk thing is really about the measure of an athletes vertical leap which is a measure of their explosive power output. Vertical leap/jumping/plyometrics isn't something only basketball players practice, it is something that is practiced and trained by a wide variety sports world, including Soccer, Rugby and MMA. That is how athletes work on their explosiveness.

Dunking is most certainly not just about vertical leap, although that is the major component. The co-ordination required to put that ball home with authority as opposed to slam it off the rim into the rafters can not be overlooked.

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

You didnt read what I wrote-

"Just relayed what these pro athletes have said. Infer from it, what you can."

No, I read that.

I just wanted to confirm between the two of us that that is completely false/was never stated in such a manner. Or do you feel otherwise?

 

[KeyboardFighter]

I wasnt aware you were trying make a point.
You keep asking questions which I try to answer as simply and concisely as possible with examples
Its kind of a basic concept.

If you have a point, feel free to state it.

I have stated it plenty of times. You can't easily seperate skill with athleticism! And you can't just say one is more important than the other. And you can't easily say when athleticism beats skill and vice versa.

Again how much skill would a Lebron James have to beat Roger Gracie for example? 80% or maybe even less? Or just maybe Roger Gracie is plenty strong and plenty athletic enough to use his skill to his outmost use.

 

[ermac88]

I have stated it plenty of times. You can't easily seperate skill with athleticism! And you can't just say one is more important than the other. And you can't easily say when athleticism beats skill and vice versa.

Again how much skill would a Lebron James have to beat Roger Gracie for example? 80% or maybe even less? Or just maybe Roger Gracie is plenty strong and plenty athletic enough to use his skill to his outmost use.

and I answered that question for you
Its simply not easily quantified

In the US they have elaborate means to determine athleticism in children early to groom them for pro sports.

These better athletes go to big paying sports

Generally if you have two men of equal skill and training.
The guy who is stronger, faster, more agile, more co-ordinated will have the upper hand in combat.

I cant tell you how much training an athlete needs to beat another athlete, I wouldnt have clue.
However if LeBron chose MMA instead of Basketball at a young age (17), odds are hed have a signifigant advantage and be a betting favorite over the current crop of fighters

 

[Viper2]

People can make all kinds of conjectures on whether so-and-so athletes would do well in UFC, but at the end of the day it's nothing but conjecture because no one really knows.

Just because someone is talented enough to play in the NFL, NBA, or MLB DOES NOT mean they would do well in the UFC. There is no correlation. However, if someone wants to live in a fantasy world and pretend their favorite NFL, NBA, or MLB player would do well in the UFC, then that's up to them. But it has no basis in reality.

This is really a silly nonsensical discussion.

 

[Takamine86]

How did they measure that? Seems to be jumping plenty high in the video to me.

His ability to clear the bar has more to do with his flexibility and tuck at the peak of his jump. That isn't the same as a straight leg vertical which measure how high your feet get off the ground. So look at this video of Stefan clearing the hurdles and imagine he wasn't tucking his legs. He would be getting that high of the ground.



Here is a USC wide receiver Josh Imatorbhebhe's vertical. No tuck, just a straight leg vert.

 

[Takamine86]

Dunking is most certainly not just about vertical leap, although that is the major component. The co-ordination required to put that ball home with authority as opposed to slam it off the rim into the rafters can not be overlooked.

You're right, dunking is soo much harder than a standard vertical leap. Especially an Aelly oop.

 

[KeyboardFighter]

and I answered that question for you
Its simply not easily quantified

In the US they have elaborate means to determine athleticism in children early to groom them for pro sports.

These better athletes go to big paying sports

Generally if you have two men of equal skill and training.
The guy who is stronger, faster, more agile, more co-ordinated will have the upper hand in combat.

I cant tell you how much training an athlete needs to beat another athlete, I wouldnt have clue.
However if LeBron chose MMA instead of Basketball at a young age (17), odds are hed have a signifigant advantage and be a betting favorite over the current crop of fighters

And this is the poodles core, as we say in Sweden. You can only really see sports in measurable specific actions and you see everything in that view. So my point really never enters your thinking. you are unable to comprehend my heavily stated point. It probably makes sense if you watch American Obeseball where everyone has a limited set of actions (besides maybe the QB).

You don't see that prodigys like Roger Gracie, Andersson Silva or Fedor. Are good not only because of their athleticism but their unique skills and way of applying those skills. It's not like in a video game when a guy can just achieve those skills and have whatever athleticism he now have and you can now beat them all! It's more complicated than that.

 

[KeyboardFighter]

His ability to clear the bar has more to do with his flexibility and tuck at the peak of his jump. That isn't the same as a straight leg vertical which measure how high your feet get off the ground. So look at this video of Stefan clearing the hurdles and imagine he wasn't tucking his legs. He would be getting that high of the ground.



Here is a USC wide receiver Josh Imatorbhebhe's vertical. No tuck, just a straight leg vert.

Maybe im gonna risk sounding retarded and just purely speculating. But can't you like tuck your legs up a little while leaning a little forward to gain a couple of inches while jumping vertical. So it still looks like you are outstreched but you are actually raising your leggs a bit. I know you can cheat the vertical hand stretched measure by having your outstretched alot lower then when it's completly outstretched and while also stretching yourself out. Just speculating.

 

[Takamine86]

And this is the poodles core, as we say in Sweden. You can only really see sports in measurable specific actions and you see everything in that view. So my point really never enters your thinking. you are unable to comprehend my heavily stated point. It probably makes sense if you watch American Obeseball where everyone has a limited set of actions (besides maybe the QB).

You don't see that prodigys like Roger Gracie, Andersson Silva or Fedor. Are good not only because of their athleticism but their unique skills and way of applying those skills. It's not like in a video game when a guy can just achieve those skills and have whatever athleticism he now have and you can now beat them all! It's more complicated than that.

What happen to the Gracies in MMA when everyone learned BJJ?

See that is the thing, Technique and Skill can be taught while Athleticism cannot. So once the skill and technique gap closes, other attributes take over. Miocic didn't grow up wanting to be an MMA fighter, he grew up wanting to play baseball. He was a college baseball star.

But when he didn't make it into MLB, he turned to MMA. He went from losing to Stefan Struve to becoming the HW champions. Took a few years of training but the point is, skill and technique can be taught. & when these catch up, than other attributes come into play.

 

[ermac88]

And this is the poodles core, as we say in Sweden. You can only really see sports in measurable specific actions and you see everything in that view. So my point really never enters your thinking. you are unable to comprehend my heavily stated point. It probably makes sense if you watch American Obeseball where everyone has a limited set of actions (besides maybe the QB).

You don't see that prodigys like Roger Gracie, Andersson Silva or Fedor. Are good not only because of their athleticism but their unique skills and way of applying those skills. It's not like in a video game when a guy can just achieve those skills and have whatever athleticism he now have and you can now beat them all! It's more complicated than that.

yep it's not a video and is complicated.

but again any version of those fighters mentioned with the exact same skillet that were more athletic, would beat them.

Silvas not losing because he's less skilled these days, he losing because with age, he's less athletic

 

[KeyboardFighter]

What happen to the Gracies in MMA when everyone learned BJJ?

See that is the thing, Technique and Skill can be taught while Athleticism cannot. So once the skill and technique gap closes, other attributes take over. Miocic didn't grow up wanting to be an MMA fighter, he grew up wanting to play baseball. He was a college baseball star.

But when he didn't make it into MLB, he turned to MMA. He went from losing to Stefan Struve to becoming the HW champions. Took a few years of training but the point is, skill and technique can be taught. & when these catch up, than other attributes come into play.

Do you actually believe it was Miocic level of athleticism that was the reason he didn't make it in baseball? Is this what they teach you in Amerilards?

 

[KeyboardFighter]

yep it's not a video and is complicated.

but again any version of those fighters mentioned with the exact same skillet that were more athletic, would beat them.

Silvas not losing because he's less skilled these days, he losing because with age, he's less athletic

Yeah and the same Silva but with 10 more IQ points would beat that Silva too. Whats your point?

 

[Takamine86]

Maybe im gonna risk sounding retarded and just purely speculating. But can't you like tuck your legs up a little while leaning a little forward to gain a couple of inches while jumping vertical. So it still looks like you are outstreched but you are actually raising your leggs a bit. I know you can cheat the vertical hand stretched measure by having your outstretched alot lower then when it's completly outstretched and while also stretching yourself out. Just speculating.

I suppose you can, but most verticals aren't measured from your legs as was shown in that video. They are measured by first measuring the standing athletes height and combined reach toward the sky. Than the athlete is supposed to jump as high as possible and reach marker. The the height/reach is subtracted from the height reached. This is how most verticals are measured.