Social ICE/deportation protests and riots megathread

[Blayt7hh]

I see this parroted a lot but those two situations were not the same.

How were they not the same? The Republican Party first argued that it was too close to the election, and then turned around and argued the opposite when the exact same situation arose. The real constant here was just that they had the power both times to do what they wanted.

 

[Cajun]

I like this dude.

 

[BFoe]

I wouldn’t say that pick was stolen. Dems didn’t have majority to force the pick. They also agreed to let the incoming potus pick because they thought Hillary would trounce trump. Bad bet.

And yes, if you don’t recall, everyone on the left was calling for Breyer to step down and retire so biden would have a pick. I remember aoc was very vocal
About it as well as others in the party. Which I find funny because the scotus is supposed to be apolitical and it is very political. I always thought I wanted a conservative majority but it was better when Robert’s was the deciding vote because he didn’t always side with the conservatives.

Nobody should have any need to “force” a pick. When a POTUS makes a nomination, as they are instructed to do via the Constitution, the Senate should also meet their constitutional requirement to take up that pick. Never in the history of our country has the senate refused to take up any pick that a POTUS nominated. It’s a complete abdication of constitutional duty, and their supposed reasons for doing so were shown to be pure hypocrisy.

A politician expressing an opinion that a Justice should retire is not the same as forcing them out.

I agree about swing votes in SCOTUS, I think Anthony Kennedy was a good swing vote. Ironically I think Garland would’ve been the Dem equivalent of Kennedy, he sided often with conservatives when he was on the Court of Appeals.

 

[Cajun]

He didn't abandon it, it just wasn't the same situation. McConnell's reasoning is that, since the American people had voted in a majority Republican Senate under Obama, any SCOTUS pick he was going to pick was not going to be representing the will of the majority of Americans. Under Trump, you have a Republican Congress AND President. Hate the logic all you want, but don't say the situations were the same. Nobody was "robbed" of a SCOTUS pick.

I didnt like this though even though Im a conservative. Some consistency is needed imo. Obama should have been allowed to pick imo.

 

[Cajun]

Nobody should have any need to “force” a pick. When a POTUS makes a nomination, as they are instructed to do via the Constitution, the Senate should also meet their constitutional requirement to take up that pick. Never in the history of our country has the senate refused to take up any pick that a POTUS nominated. It’s a complete abdication of constitutional duty, and their supposed reasons for doing so were shown to be pure hypocrisy.

A politician expressing an opinion that a Justice should retire is not the same as forcing them out.

I agree about swing votes in SCOTUS, I think Anthony Kennedy was a good swing vote. Ironically I think Garland would’ve been the Dem equivalent of Kennedy, he sided often with conservatives when he was on the Court of Appeals.

Agreed. It wasn't a good look imo.

 

[nhbbear]

Since immigration is such a divisive issue, both sides are lying constantly. Both the left and right are deliberately being misleading or outright lying to push their views.

What is objectively true:

1. Nearly all of these individuals who are being detained do not have legal status in the US (exceptions below). They are not what you referred to as legal immigrants - naturalized US citizens, green card holders, or individuals complying with their visas. Instead, they are mostly those who entered illegally, overstayed their visas, or violated the terms of their visa (such as students not studying).
2. A small number of those being detained are legal immigrants (green card holders) who have some form of criminal record. They can revoke your green card and deport you if you commit a crime.
3. A small number of those being detained are legal immigrants who have participated or organized in pro-Hamas/anti-Israel protests. Whether the administration can do so legally is being fought over in courts. US immigration law does allow them to do so, but some are arguing the law was unconstitutional in the first place.
4. A small number of these deportations are in violation of the law, most famously Abrego Garcia. These cases and names are famous precisely because there aren't that many of them, although there are about 600,000 illegal immigrants in the country that do have a record or have been charged. It is important these individuals get justice and the media focuses a lot on them, which may give the false impression that many individuals are being deported incorrectly.
5. Immigration court is not the same thing as criminal court and not even part of the Judicial Branch. They're part of the Department of Justice under the Executive Branch. It's more like civil court and you don't need to "prove" things beyond a reasonable doubt like a criminal case. It's an administrative hearing as opposed to a "trial" where you try to prove things. Immigration judges have broad discretion in determining the admissibility of evidence and hearsay is allowed. It's almost like a job interview.

What is a grey area:

1. Those being deported are here illegally, many even ordered deported or stuck in years-long deportation proceedings, but have been left alone by previous administration's for many years. ICE had limited deportation resources, so they de-priortized those who had clean criminal records and US citizen family. Trump has basically abolished that old prioritization and made deporting anyone here illegally fair game. This upsets many who believe that people who are here illegally for many years, pay taxes and have US citizen children should be treated as legal immigrants (even if legally, they're not).
2. Trump abolished many humanitarian immigration programs that Biden created that he disagreed with (Central American/Haitian parolees and TPS primarily), going so far as to shorten their previously granted stay, essentially making previously-legal humanitarian immigrants now illegal. This is being fought in the courts but the Supreme Court seems to be siding with him so far - what one President can give without Congressional action, another President can usually take away as well.
3. Some of those detained are illegally in the US, but filed pending applications (asylum, marriage) to become legal while illegally in the US. This does not make them legal until the applications are approved and the law allows for them to be detained until their applications are approved. Previous administrations generally did not detain them, but ICE appears to have changed that policy.

What is objectively misinformation:

1. US citizens are not being deported. Media stories or people claiming citizens are being deported are LYING and trying to mislead you.
2. Some parents who are deported were given the choice to bring their US citizen children with them, and of course many chose to do so to avoid separation. This doesn't mean the children were deported - their guardians chose not to be separated from them. The alternative would be to force these US citizen children to stay in the US and separate them from their parents - clearly cruel and inhumane.
3. Many of the individuals being deported are neither criminals nor dangerous. Overstaying a visa is a civil violation, not a crime. Due to pressure to meet Trump's deportation targets, ICE is basically eschewing old priorities and deporting anyone who's here illegally. To be clear, these individuals who are here illegally with a clean criminal record can still be legally deported - that's what the law says. However, some Americans believed only those with criminal records would be targeted, and are unhappy about this change in policy.
4. The left is saying everyone being deported got zero due process and are just being sent to foreign prisons. They're conflating the relatively small number of 248 people sent to CECOT to the thousands that have been deported. Most did get due process and simply deported to Mexico or the Central American country they came from. Have to remember that there are 1.4 million people that already had existing final deportation orders from before Trump even came into office.

Great post. Probably the best itt. I did not know that the due process and deporting legal residents was bullshit because I have a friend on fb that posts that every single day “just in case you missed it, 248 legal residents were deported 59 days ago(or whatever the number is) and I had to snooze her for a while.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Here’s the thing I would like to hear from the right wing posters- you guys have often talked about needing to resist the government. All throughout Bidens presidency I kept seeing you guys quoting that tree of freedom blood of patriots quote.

Now look at what ICE has been doing. They are literally sneaking up on people and grabbing them off streets and out of homes, even going so far as to grab them at courts when those people are doing what they’re supposed to do. They’re doing it with face masks on and sometimes not even identifying themselves as agents. Worse yet, they are making mistakes and grabbing the wrong people sometimes and shipping them off before they realize they fucked up. Then to make it even worse, ICE and the DOJ have straight up ignored the courts to include the Supreme Court.

They’re not being held accountable. They’re exercising unconstitutional authority that the government right now is giving them. So I ask you guys, if you don’t see this as tyrannical government overreach violating basic rights, then what do you see as that?

Keep in mind when you answer this I’m not arguing whether you think we should deport people or not. I’m talking about the government’s blatantly repressive and illegal actions.

 

[Kona Bear]

 

[nhbbear]

so it's costing 134 million dollars to send in the national guard to deal with a tiny little crowd of peaceful protesters in a tiny little area of downtown los angeles. sounds pretty efficient.

next thing you know molestini cheetolini is going to be playing this up to be bigger than the 1992 los angeles riots and all of those protesters are baby-murdering pet-eating fentanyl-smuggling illegal aliens because the mandarin molester wouldn't dare admit that this little show he is putting on is all just a pathetic waste of resources.

I would strongly disagree that this is a little protest man. There were apps 10k out the one day. And at night, the destruction and rioting is almost as bad as floyd riots at times. Not quite the high level of anger directed at police that 2020 saw-this seems to be 50/50 with them being big mad at trump for these deportations

 

[Flower2dPeople]

- Man. The bad optics and total inability of your elected leaders to handle this on a civil manner. On a side, a fatso prepotent douche insiting violence, on the other the left as always slaping and throwing gas on fire, and pretending they're the good guys.

Theres no good guys, beside my bros from Fire-brigade and some LEO's trying to prevent a violent onslaught. Trump is sitting on his as, watching this, while his family hacks billions, i dont know much about Karen Bass, but i am prety sure she is on a secure place, ful of armed security, while you guys are played as cheap pawns on a chess game!

From a security perspective, this is a nightmare, thousand of people in a pan heating, read to explode. Obviously no side wil be held accoutable. Trump after ytrying to overthrown the elected president, was still alowed to run. You guys know what would happen to him in Japan for example? Or even here!

Trump could be a three-headed dragon instead of a fat fuck but him insisting on violence is the only move that makes sense and will make these savages behave. Violent people should be treated with violence. And why are you rehashing old issues that isn't relevant to what's happening in LA? Why do you want to appeal to both sides in this forum with a horrible centrist take? Grow a pair.

 

[Cajun]

Good luck with that..

 

[nhbbear]

Trump Derangement Syndrome: Stage Four(Terminal)

lol. Stage four is fatal and painful

 

[Mr Holmes]

Yeah, Scalia died about 9 months before an election, RBG died when early voting was already going on.

Mitch McConnell declared they wouldn’t approve ANY nominee of Obama’s like one hour after Scalia’s death was reported.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/mitch-mcconnell-antonin-scalia-supreme-court-nomination-219248

He went as far as to make some sloppy argument about how we have to wait for the next POTUS to nominate a replacement so that “the people have a voice”—an argument he swiftly abandoned when RBG died.

We both know if the parties were reversed the Democrats would do the same thing.

 

[HereticBD]

Here’s the thing I would like to hear from the right wing posters- you guys have often talked about needing to resist the government. All throughout Bidens presidency I kept seeing you guys quoting that tree of freedom blood of patriots quote.

Now look at what ICE has been doing. They are literally sneaking up on people and grabbing them off streets and out of homes, even going so far as to grab them at courts when those people are doing what they’re supposed to do. They’re doing it with face masks on and sometimes not even identifying themselves as agents. Worse yet, they are making mistakes and grabbing the wrong people sometimes and shipping them off before they realize they fucked up. Then to make it even worse, ICE and the DOJ have straight up ignored the courts to include the Supreme Court.

They’re not being held accountable. They’re exercising unconstitutional authority that the government right now is giving them. So I ask you guys, if you don’t see this as tyrannical government overreach violating basic rights, then what do you see as that?

Keep in mind when you answer this I’m not arguing whether you think we should deport people or not. I’m talking about the government’s blatantly repressive and illegal actions.

People getting what they voted for and Democrats stupidly standing in their way. That's what I see.

And no, nobody cares if some mistakes are made along the way. Take that emotional blackmail to Reddit.

 

[nhbbear]

No dude, the city is not siding with the looters. Most of us realize that the couple of hundred dipshits were mostly fucksticks looking to go viral or just getting off on playing anarchist.

But I live literally 4-miles from the epicenter of these protests. To say the whole city is covered in graffiti, is just retarded. Also, we are not in the middle of a rebellion, in case anyone here is dumb enough to buy that line of shit.

What the locals actually think is the following:
-The first protests in Paramount (about 16-miles south of Los Angeles) were about a couple dozen of legit protestors. I had to drive by them on my way back from Long Beach. Nothing much, and couldn't really see shit even though it was right by the interstate.

-Trump announces he's nationalizing the guard that same night. Then you get a fuckton of people marching on downtown in response to that. In the first night, these were a mix of honest protestors and shitbirds just looking for thrills. I have a bunch of friends in the LAPD (lots of former Marines there) and they laugh and tell me two things: 1) the people that catch looting are the young, but destined for a career of shitbaggery, who already have a bunch of priors; 2) the dipshits who actually try to spit or swing on cops are always priveliged gender studies majors who shit their pants when they realize their going to jail.

-After day 1 or two, the remaining "protestors" were more of you douche bags looking to go viral or just be asshats. Everyone agress it's time to shoo them away. As of tonight, that looks to have happened.

-Ultimately, both sides of the media overhyped this. Trump didn't help, and served only as a needless inflamatory dickhead. The nationalized guard just stood around the detention center in downtown, and didn't participate in dealing with the protestors in any meaningful way. The marines haven't done anything that I've heard of, and are likely just staged somewhere to avoid any incidents.

That's my two cents as a local, for what it's worth. Trump needs a distraction. He's failing to deliver on any promises he made to his base. He hasn't gotten any trade deals done after promising "90 in 90 days" ; he just straight gave up on Ukraine after promising to solve that on day 1; and now he blocking the release of the Epstein files that his own cabinet is implicating him in.

So trump does what he always does when he looks like a loser: he picks a culture war fight and begs his base to look over there. And the responses in this thread from his supporters, prove it.

Again, this isn’t 2 cents, it’s the whole dime brother. You’re killing it

 

[Crazy Source]

I didnt like this though even though Im a conservative. Some consistency is needed imo. Obama should have been allowed to pick imo.

There is no way around it. It was blatant hypocrisy. Glad we agree on this, brother.

 

[nhbbear]

Nobody should have any need to “force” a pick. When a POTUS makes a nomination, as they are instructed to do via the Constitution, the Senate should also meet their constitutional requirement to take up that pick. Never in the history of our country has the senate refused to take up any pick that a POTUS nominated. It’s a complete abdication of constitutional duty, and their supposed reasons for doing so were shown to be pure hypocrisy.

A politician expressing an opinion that a Justice should retire is not the same as forcing them out.

I agree about swing votes in SCOTUS, I think Anthony Kennedy was a good swing vote. Ironically I think Garland would’ve been the Dem equivalent of Kennedy, he sided often with conservatives when he was on the Court of Appeals.

I disagree a bit with the forced out part. He was receiving so much pressure. I remember someone saying basically “do you want your scotus resume/highlights to include overstayed in role and gave yet another pick to republicans-you’ve had an honorable career and shouldn’t tarnish it and you should step down because you deserve it and could be fishing of some shit like that.” He was guilted into retiring.

 

[AdamWarlock]

lol it's only been six month and cops are shooting unarmed woman trying to get home already
this administration is not gonna last, civil war happening, rip america

 

[nhbbear]

We both know if the parties were reversed the Democrats would do the same thing.

I agree totally. I can’t recall (and don’t feel like looking it up) who replaced rbg after this fiasco-whether it was acb or ksvanaugh, but the dems certainly tried to put Bret through the ringer with the whole 30 year rape accusations

 

[nhbbear]

lol it's only been six month and cops are shooting unarmed woman trying to get home already
this administration is not gonna last, civil war happening, rip america

Civil war? Really? I don’t think so. I think this will last as long as the deportations last at least to some extent. I think the “rapid mobilization” shit where ice is spotted and people swarm the area will last but less people will show after a while and people will grow used to this. For realz, I hope this ends soon and the deportations slow down and focus on those with criminal records. For example, when they went after the kid and his family that killed someone in a car accident and was given probation was exactly what I am looking and hoping for, but snatching up some mother with children that are citizens and those with a job is extreme.

And that was a pathetic and disgusting use of force to shoot an unarmed woman who posed no threat and lived on the block. As a retired leo, this boils my blood.