I wish we could’ve seen Franklin vs Bisping

[rushbeg]

this is what post leg injury/past his prime Silva did to bisping

could you imagine what prime Silva would’ve done to him?

Mma would’ve been banned if that fight ever took place.

Bisping would’ve been on life support

After hitting him with a cheap-shot , Still couldn’t finish him.


Bisping outstruck and dominated Silva until the cheapshot and still managed to win the next round. Bispimg’s boxing and striking in general was miles ahead of Silva in that night.


That style would’ve posed the same problems to Silva in his prime also.

So Bisping was in his prime against Silva but past of prime just a year after against 4-year layoff post two knee tears GSP?

 

[ticho123]

You have to understand the context of who I am responding to, to understand my response. I am responding to a troll, using troll logic.

You don't see what this guy is doing? I see it a mile away. It's obvious as hell.

 

[Combat_Night_Official]

Respect your opinion but I would suggest reviewing Rich’s career more closely. He beat the hell out of lots of ranked opponents who can best be described as “solid all around fighters.” He isn’t a one punch knockout artist but he was very heavy handed and beat guys to a pulp if they got into a boxing match against him.

That's my point is hes not a one punch knock out artist like hendo, vitor, or wanderlei and he doesnt have the wrestling like rockhold or Kennedy. He definitely have some impressive beat downs but it's against people like jason McDonald, Travis Lutter, shamrock etc. None of which have the cardio, chin, and heart of Bisping. I think he has superior stand and anti-wrestling so I see it going UD to Mike. Either one could win realistically though, I just see it 70/30 in Bispings favor.

 

[chinarice]

You're too stupid for words. Have a nice life, cool guy.

 

[chinarice]

After hitting him with a cheap-shot , Still couldn’t finish him.


Bisping outstruck and dominated Silva until the cheapshot and still managed to win the next round. Bispimg’s boxing and striking in general was miles ahead of Silva in that night.


That style would’ve posed the same problems to Silva in his prime also.

So Bisping was in his prime against Silva but past of prime just a year after against 4-year layoff post two knee tears GSP?

Lets be honest, Bisping wasn't in his prime for either guy. He had a completely fucked up eye for both.

Silva, GSP and Bisping were not in their primes when they fought. GSP just actually won, Silva did not and of course, his fanbase had a laundry list of excuses. They pretend Bisping wasn't damaged goods when he fought Silva... lol

 

[pankrat]

We can quibble over my characterizations of “smashing” versus “beating cleanly”, or whether or not Anderson is an explosive athlete, if you want to waste the rest of the morning on something unimportant.

If you want to speculate that maybe Rich loses to Evans and Kennedy and Sonnen too, you can do that, and it’s possible that you’re right (just like it’s possible that I’m right that Franklin wouldn’t have to eek out a split decision against Leites). But we KNOW Bisping lost to those guys.

Not sure what quibble means but if you say Franklin "smash solid ranked opponents" just to clarify what that refers to. Franklin smashed good fighters but so did Bisping - Kang, Akiyama, Miller, Belcher or Le are solid tittle contender material by the cheap 2005 UFC MW division standards - by cheap I mean literally, the top talent of that size back then were mostly fighting in other ors or other weightclasses for economic reasons.

Both Bisping and Franklin were finished when faced the very best, were a tough fight for most top10 at MW, and were capable of smashing good fighters but not what I would call solid ranked competition

By the way Silva disposed of Frankin with skill; Rich would be the first to concede it, no room for suspicious strenght comments

Bisping simply doesn’t have any big wins other than landing the punch of his life against Luke, and his prime is littered with losses literally every other time he stepped up in competition.

This is just as true for Franklin, but without a big KO over a legit top5 fighter in Rockhold.

I think Franklin was underrated, but to the extent that I’m wrong it’s because guys like Romero, Jacare, Weidman, Rockhold and Whittaker are better than I think, not because Bisping is

The fact that many people on these boards dispute that those guys, or some others as Mousasi, are better than Franklin is a clear sign of him being overrated - Franklin's best wins at MW are Tanner and Okami in a close dec. His fights with Hendo or Wand didnt even take place at 185.
Plenty of MWs more underrated then Rich imo; Murilo Bustamante or Nate Marquardt for example are pretty forgotten, even if I would not necessarily favour them over Franklin.

I have serious doubts about Franklin being one of the 5 best MWs ever even just from USA, to be honest.

But the core of the discussion here is Rich vs Bisping. And any criticism that you may have of Rich IMO also has to be leveled as Bisping. If Rich wasn’t smashing opponents, neither way Bisping. If Rich wasn’t defeating top level opponents, neither was Bisping.
.

Actually I agree with you.

Agree with this. I favor Rich in the matchup but neither guy is a wrestler. They’re both standup fighters who successfully learned enough wrestling to prevent all but the top grapplers from taking them down, and generally surviving and getting back up if they did get taken down.

It would have been interesting to see how Rich fared against peak Chael or Kennedy. But for this hypothetical matchup I don’t think wrestling matters.

I do think Rich had good core strength, very solid BJJ and heavy ground and pound, so in the event that Bisping gets dropped or otherwise winds up on the ground I can see Rich doing some good work there. But neither guy is shooting for a takedown (other than the panic variety) and I wouldn’t expect either guy to succeed if he did shoot.

To me the style of the fight would be fairly predictable: Franklin walking him down, Bisping looking to stick and move. If Rich is a step behind Bisping can stay on his bike and win. If Rich can force Bisping to eat 1-2 to land 2-3, I think the damage will accrue and Bisping will have a tough time surviving five rounds without getting busted up pretty badly. Fun fight which can go either way. I would bet on Rich under -200.

Agree. Good breakdown. I would slightly favour Rich in this match up.

 

[jefferz]

I've always called Bisping a poor mans Rich Franklin. Similar skillsets and both pre dominant stand up fighters. I definitely give " prime " Rich edge cause he was finishing type guys that Mike would go to the cards with ( but win). Rich also more cerebral if he found himself taken down ......really smart ( for his time) as a defensive grappler. I always appreciated " get mounted", " stay calm ", lay idle , and had wherewithal to buck the mountee off or turn/ shimmy right way when mount- er went to blast.
Betting line would be under 2-1 - prime / prime so Bisping would hold his own .I'd see Rich winning a decision.

I'd give Mike edge in td defense.

Difference between Bisping and Rich is that Rich isn't a piece of shit.

And let's not forget he did that after the blatant illegal knee because he was losing

 

[Franklin U.]

Difference between Bisping and Rich is that Rich isn't a piece of shit.

And let's not forget he did that after the blatant illegal knee because he was losing

I almost brought that up ....... and against an opponent he was a healthy favorite agsinst. I dont want to call to call him that ( he and Rivera did have a genuine dislike for one another which didnt make it right for what he did ). There are other characteristics of ping that I didnt appreciate but I wouldnt go that far. He was a bit of a misogynist on FOX studios towards Kbryant but this has nothing to do with topic so I wont go there.

I'm a bit taken back,lol - that was a trip down memory lane I forgot.

 

[pankrat]

Again nobody’s saying Loiseau was as good career wise, but at their peaks they were definitely comparable. At his peak Loiseau was ko ppl let n right

bisping at his peak was winning hometown decision, beating fighters way past their primes (in fights he looked like he was in serious car accidents) n pulled a Matt Serra n beat a much better opponent (who already beat him with ease n didn’t take him seriously in the rematch). In other words he was same his entire career, but just got lucky at the very end n win the title.

Loiseau at no point was at Bisping's level, not for anyone who actually watched them fight, have a clue and is unbiased

Everytime David fought truly elite competition got easily dispatched by Horn, beat by Rivera Swick, or unable to land more than 20 strikes in 25mins vs Franklin with a broken hand.
Even in the Tanner fight was getting manhandled until the opened a cut with the elbow - thats the only notable win in his career.

You claim "hometown decisions" where Bisping land 35 more significant strikes (25 in the head) than Leites in a fight solely contested in the feet - but no word for decissions in fights with much less disparity where didnt got any favour from the judges as in losses to Evans and Sonnen,
Franklin vs Okami was not more clear than those by the way, do you even acknowledge?

There is no luck on Bisping's KO over Luke Rockhold, he even called the left hook before the fight - Loiseau was indeed pretty flukey with that elbow, but it got him from gatekeeper to tittle contender status . only in your book obviously

Your bias is all over the place, if you are not trolling with it its even worse.

that’s funny coming from a guy drinking ufc cool aid about a British fighter who’s a career gatekeeper n with couple of gift decisions n a lucky break became a champ n then avoided all top mw contenders.

you are the one drinking ufc cool dont fool yourself, you get to the point of swallowing that Loiseau was "the #1 MW in the world" because UFC tells you so hahah

If bisping was Jimmy Jones from Nebraska he would’ve been outside of ufc long time ago, but him being a Brit kept him around.

Do you realize you can play this game with everyone, and particularly the North Americans that got the shot for Franklin's belt?

If Bustamante was Jimmy Jones from Nebraska, more so if was good looking and a nice guy as Franklin, UFC would have tried to keep him and you would see him dispatch Loiseau, Quarry or Tanner.

By the way, losing to Belfort or Henderson or close decisions to Sonnen or Wanderlei dont get you the pink slip, if anything more like the opposite - stop bullshitting with your bias

 

[pankrat]

yeah you’re so “woke” we’re lucky to have you around!

what’s funny about “woke” folk is usually they tend to be the complete tools themselves.

liked this one xD

now how did ufc protect Franklin again?

He beat the champ who was top mw at that time.

he beat tuf participant quarry (not his fault most of top tuf mw ufc was trying to push ended up as ww)

n then he face n beat Loiseau who was on a 5 fight win streak, 3 in ufc (all 3 by tko, including the former champ).

then he faced new comer Silva who destroyed a prospect in leben in under a minute.

hows that comparable to what ufc did with bisping?

they always gave him fights in uk n pretty much guaranteed decision wins, then they gave him a title shot after beating way past his prime Anderson (in a fight he actually got ko but the ref didn’t call it) n then when he won the title they shielded him from top mw contenders n gave way way past his prime hendo (another fight he arguably lost) n then ww in gsp coming back after 4 year lay off.

So yeah, you could say Franklin didn’t face top mw at that time, but to pretend he was protected by ufc, while ignoring ufc protecting bisping is a joke.

Didnt say Franklin was protected. You are the only one talking that bullshit.

You may think UFC in 2005 hired the top talent at 185, but did not. If you pretend thats being "woke" cool but around that time happened:
Henderson, Belfort, Bustamante, Suloev, Kang, Filho, Anderson, Machida or Misaki were all capable of making 185 for a good money and beat any of the UFC MW top contenders in 2005

To have gatekeeper status in 2008-2016 UFC MW division is much harder than getting a tittle shot 2004-2005. Bisping only lost to the very best, just like Franklin did.
By the way I think the level of the discussion stepped up a bit from where it started

 

[pankrat]

says the guy who called a fighter who fought most of his career at lhw n hw (n that one time he tried to make mw looked like he’s dying from aids) a “mw”...

youre clearly very objective!

again if weight difference wasn’t that much of a issue, nobody would cut weight or they wouldn’t cut as much.

so again if 5’5 lw with no ko was able to make gsp tap to strikes, you actually think a 6’2 guy who fought as hw couldn’t?

i mean it would’ve been an easy thing to test, but it’s obvious someone wasn’t at all interested in testing that n decided to fight 2 weight classes below “mw” fighters weight.

could gsp best Irvin? Sure

could Irvin stiffen gsp? Absolutely

I just replied to your previous post. I spent time on it exposing your bias while working on my flawed English writing skills but it seems is yours is not just a matter of bias you are indeed clueless hahah

Size matters when the skills behind are on par. GSP aims to be champion. How is it to deal with Jones or Cormier is what matters GSP.

No better example than a fellow Canadian welter who fought not Irvin but LHW champion Tito Ortiz to a decision - better tha Irvin would do most likely - then made a run at MW to challenge Silva - gave him a way tougher fight than Irvin despite being much smaller - and then spent several years at WW actually with not getting as far as he did fighting bigger guys. Cote isnt even a huge welterweight.

GSP is much better than Patrick Coté.
Ton of examples but if even with such sklyclear one you dont see how ridiculous your stance is I cant help you

 

[grimballer]

Loiseau at no point was at Bisping's level, not for anyone who actually watched them fight, have a clue and is unbiased

Loiseau actually got to fight for a title during his prime.

bisping has to wait for perfect opportunity n all stars to align to get a title shot.

Again career wise bisping > loiseau

Peak vs peak = closer than you think

Everytime David fought truly elite competition got easily dispatched by Horn, beat by Rivera Swick, or unable to land more than 20 strikes in 25mins vs Franklin with a broken hand.
Even in the Tanner fight was getting manhandled until the opened a cut with the elbow - thats the only notable win in his career.

again We’re not comparing loiseau to dan Henderson or Anderson Silva.

it’s career gatekeeper bisping who himself had a habit of losing big fights n was never able to get to the title fight.

serra too was able to become a champ. It doesn’t mean he’s automatically better than any other ww that didn’t win the belt.

n styles make fights.

loiseau clearly had problems vs better grapplers.

vs bisping he would face a volume striker that didn’t do too well vs power strikers n gets tagged.

remember we’re talking here about how bisping would do vs tanner, quarry n loiseau n if he would be able to beat them as easy as Franklin did?

You claim "hometown decisions" where Bisping land 35 more significant strikes (25 in the head) than Leites in a fight solely contested in the feet - but no word for decissions in fights with much less disparity where didnt got any favour from the judges as in losses to Evans and Sonnen,
Franklin vs Okami was not more clear than those by the way, do you even acknowledge?

Oh, so now all we gonna do is go on fightmetric n give raw numbers without any context?

shows how “knowledgeable” you are.

1st fights are not scored overall, but round per round so total numbers are pointless.

2nd bisping is a volume striker n will land more during the fight, but his punches don’t have much behind them. If one guy lands 30 soft strikes n the other lands 20 hard ones, well guess what? 20 hard strikes > 30 soft ones.

Now it’s funny you include Evans as “controversial” even though he took bisping 3 times in round 1 n 2 times in round 2, but ignore the fight before that was robbery of the century vs hamill.

Don’t know how’s sonnen fight controversial? Sonnen literally outlanded n outgrappled him. The fact that he didn’t completely dominate him is probably why ppl felt bisping “might have won”.

Franklin vs okami = Franklin literally landed more in every single round n they both had a td in 3rd. How’s that “controversial” n similar to bisping home town decisions?

you seriously need to do your homework before embarking into these discussions.

There is no luck on Bisping's KO over Luke Rockhold, he even called the left hook before the fight - Loiseau was indeed pretty flukey with that elbow, but it got him from gatekeeper to tittle contender status . only in your book obviously

serra probably said he was gonna beat gsp as well n did it. It doesn’t mean it was t a fluke, essentially when Luke already beat him with ease n bisping is a career gatekeeper.

Your bias is all over the place, if you are not trolling with it its even worse.

maybe you should look it the mirror. You have no self awareness.

you are the one drinking ufc cool dont fool yourself, you get to the point of swallowing that Loiseau was "the #1 MW in the world" because UFC tells you so hahah

who said he was no.1 mw in the world? Are you having a conversation with somebody else?

there’s a difference between being a contender n no.1 mw in the world.

When bisping fought for a title. Was he no.1 mw in the world?

Do you realize you can play this game with everyone, and particularly the North Americans that got the shot for Franklin's belt?

Yeah, loiseau got a shot cause he’s North American...

If Bustamante was Jimmy Jones from Nebraska, more so if was good looking and a nice guy as Franklin, UFC would have tried to keep him and you would see him dispatch Loiseau, Quarry or Tanner.

I like how you keep discrediting loiseau, but keep bringing up Bustamante.

He was 9-1 when he left ufc n his biggest wins are Menne (arguably the worse ufc champ in history) n lindland (good win)

so a guy who was 9-1, 2 fight win streak n 1 good win is someone suppose to be much better than 14-4, 5 fight win streak l’oiseau?

By the way, losing to Belfort or Henderson or close decisions to Sonnen or Wanderlei dont get you the pink slip, if anything more like the opposite - stop bullshitting with your bias

Getting destroyed by Luke n Kennedy n then having close fights vs journeymen like cb n Leites does.

 

[pankrat]

Loiseau actually got to fight for a title during his prime.

bisping has to wait for perfect opportunity n all stars to align to get a title shot.
.

If that's all you got, even worse than expected from you

Loiseau would not get any title shot in UFC MW division during 2008-2016.
Not even gatekeeper status. Kang, Miller, Akiyama or Belcher all would be favourites vs Loiseau.

You dont even know how good Bustamante was, you needed to look into his fight finder lol.

loiseau clearly had problems vs better grapplers.

And with strikers as Swick and Rivera lol, let alone Franklin even with one hand

You didnt actually watched the fights you described. Sonnen vs Bisping, Leites vs Bisping and Okami vs Franklin are all close fights. Overall you seem pretty clueless honestly, imo

 

[pankrat]

Getting destroyed by Luke n Kennedy n then having close fights vs journeymen like cb n Leites does.

Not at all. Bring some example of it. Nobody get cut for losing to Kennedy, much less Luke. Leites and Dollaway were both top10 ranked, who are u calleing journeyman, after your assesment on Loiseau lol. At this point I have to say you are retard

 

[TheSpider]

Not at all. Bring some example of it. At this point I have to say you are retard

Getting wrecked in an argument so you have to play the “you’re a retard” card. Pathetic

 

[Swarthy]

Would have definitely been stoked for that fight.
The biggest travesty though, is that we never got Bisping vs Nick Diaz.

That would have been the big perfect retirement fight for Bisping.
The buildup would have been amazing. Bisping would have pushed Diaz's buttons as much as possible and the press conferences would have been gold.
Also, the fight would have been amazing as a 5 rounder.

Sucks it never happened.

I agree 100% I think Bisping beats Franklin via Tko 4th round.

Fun fight to watch for sure.

 

[grimballer]

liked this one xD



Didnt say Franklin was protected. You are the only one talking that bullshit.

you said ufc wanted maybe an American poster boy like Franklin as champ. That’s why they didn’t sign top talent. What else is that suppose to mean?

You may think UFC in 2005 hired the top talent at 185, but did not. If you pretend thats being "woke" cool but around that time happened:
Henderson, Belfort, Bustamante, Suloev, Kang, Filho, Anderson, Machida or Misaki were all capable of making 185 for a good money and beat any of the UFC MW top contenders in 2005

This just shows how clueless you are.

At that time neither Belfort or machida were fighting at mw.

they did have Dave Terrell (another guy who beat lindland) n they brought over Nate Marquardt n Anderson Silva + all the tuf guys that were competing on the show as mw, but switched to ww when they got the contract.

Also ufc at that time was the main promotion. They still have to compete with pride for top talent.

was ufc lhw division discredited cause wand wasn’t there at that time?

To have gatekeeper status in 2008-2016 UFC MW division is much harder than getting a tittle shot 2004-2005. Bisping only lost to the very best, just like Franklin did.
By the way I think the level of the discussion stepped up a bit from where it started

the difference is Franklin did much better vs common opponents.

Close fight with hendo
destroyed hamill
Beat wand with relative ease twice

 

[Swarthy]

Also Franklin U posts another thinly veiled Bisping hate thread.

 

[Swarthy]

you said ufc wanted maybe an American poster boy like Franklin as champ. That’s why they didn’t sign top talent. What else is that suppose to mean?



This just shows how clueless you are.

At that time neither Belfort or machida were fighting at mw.

they did have Dave Terrell (another guy who beat lindland) n they brought over Nate Marquardt n Anderson Silva + all the tuf guys that were competing on the show as mw, but switched to ww when they got the contract.

Also ufc at that time was the main promotion. They still have to compete with pride for top talent.

was ufc lhw division discredited cause wand wasn’t there at that time?



the difference is Franklin did much better vs common opponents.

Close fight with hendo
destroyed hamill
Beat wand with relative ease twice

You say Franklin did much better vs common opponents but fail to mention the guy Bisping beat Sonned Rich twice.

Bias is as bias does

 

[pankrat]

Getting wrecked in an argument so you have to play the “you’re a retard” card. Pathetic

Congrats, tt seems we have two retards already.

Noboy gets cut for losing a dec to Kennedy or losing to Luke. Leites and Dollaway were both top10 ranked. Nobody gets cut with Bispings results, much less if talk English, has something to say, and isnt a boring grappler like Fitch or Shields.