I can't understand why Aldo is always in GOAT lists and Adesanya doens't

[Typrune Goatley]

Izzy would probably fall more toward the 10 to 20 range. We can all sit here and name at least 10 or 12 fighters who were better than Israel Adesanya. But top 15 or top 20 of all time is still very very impressive. I would maybe even rank him above whoever the Bantamweight GOAT might be. Even though Israel is probably the 2nd or 3rd best Middleweight of all time, he may possibly have a slightly better resume than Dominick Cruz, who many would say is the BW GOAT. That's also due to Cruz having less big wins because he missed a lot of time due to injury and then also Dillashaw is severely penalized. So it's hard to put any BW above Adesanya, whereas it's unanimous that Demetrious Johnson (FLW GOAT) and Aldo (FW GOAT) should be ranked ahead of Adesanya in any all time P4P lists

 

[Here's Johnny!]

Yoel, Whittaker, Jared, Poatan... Are you joking?

Khabib ruled a division beating one-dimensional strikers
Izzy had way more diverse challenges

I don't have Khabib top ten all time either

 

[whocares]

If Aldo spoke English he'd be hated by now. Doesn't take much more than a few words we understand to start building our narratives against fighters.

 

[Here's Johnny!]

Adesanya belongs on a GOAT list a lot more than Cormier does considering he actually was the best in the world unlike Cormier.

Incoming Cormier glazers/Jones haters. He's much closer to Whittaker than to Adesanya.

What a horrible take.... you have to care about the actual skills.... Cormier would make Izzy look like a joke in there. Izzy fought zero good wrestlers in their prime ever... zero... Izzys win over whittaker was his best win and the rematch was razer close...

Izzy didn't lose when he was 38 like Anderson....

 

[Here's Johnny!]

I disagree with this premise.

Sugar Ray Robinson at one point lost 4 of 6.
He was 44 years old.

He started his career 129-1
He avenged that 1 loss 5 times.

Most people consider him the greatest boxer of all time.

Point is you need to evaluate things in the context which they occurred.


Israel has had an incredible combat sports career. He won his first 20 or 21 pro mma fights including winning and defending the premier title in the world. He has a few losses now which occred in his mid/late 30s with over 100 pro fights on his resume.

Izzy for me is in the 2nd tier of GOATs.

Top tier is the double digit title wins level.

GSP
Anderson
Mighty Mouse
Jones
Fedor
Aldo

These guys are the #1 in their division and have the sustained duration of time with the target on their back, usually 5+ years on top.

Izzy is 2nd tier with guys like Hughes, Khabib, Usman, Stipe maybe DC.
They meet some of the GOAT criteria but fall short in others. Maybe they aren't consensus #1 in their division... they lack the double digit title wins but they have a respectable 5-6 or so title wins.


ANYWAY... Izzys late losses aren't that big of a deal imo.
He still falls just shy of the top tier without holding the late career losses against him. Anderson ended on a fairly long losing streak, but his achievements before that are enough for me to overlook it and say "eh fuck it he was fighting for fun at that point" Same with Fedor and Aldo to a certain extent.

Number one criteria by far is the work they did in their prime.
Most fighters don't just up and walk away on top like GSP, Khabib, Lennox Lewis, or Rock Marciano.

Israel Adesanya isn't in his late 30s now.... he's 35. Wtf are you talking about.... he lost in his early 30s which is for most mma fighters considered their prime....

P.s. I agree with the rest of your post sorry didn't finish

 

[jeff7b9]

Israel Adesanya isn't in his late 30s now.... he's 35. Wtf are you talking about.... he lost in his early 30s which is for most mma fighters considered their prime....

P.s. I agree with the rest of your post sorry didn't finish

With 115 professional combat sports fights.
Plus another 33 amateur kickboxing bouts.

So just shy of 150 fights.

It's not just the age, it's the mileage.







______________

People also like to act like they have some sort of "gotcha" point when talking about Aldo losing fights starting at age 28, acting like him declining at that point is a big deal.

Cool. You guys can go ahead and pat yourself on the back for not understaing context.
Aldo started fighting professionally when he was 17... so yeah, after 11-12 years, half of them fighting in 5 round world title fights, and who knows how many injuries and surgeries, knees shot and without half of his most effective weapons, he lost some competitive fights against some of the best fighters in the world.

And yes, with well over 100 fights, time is working against Adesanya. That's how it works.

 

[Trabaho]

he is just trying to be cool too much for my liking

Aldo has fought for Zufa (WEC, UFC) for like tripple the time Titisanya has.

Aldo came back fro brutal defeats. Izzy basicaly got shot donw 3 fights in a row.

Not saying Izzybendoverania isn´t very good, but Aldo been around much much longer.

 

[BowserJr]

In what fucking world Ricardo Lamas, Kenny Floryan, Mark Hommenick, midget Faber and Edgard (coming from two defeats by Benson) are best competition than Romero, Poatan, Whittaker, prime Costa, Jared, Gastelu

Aldo had ony two finishes in 8 title wins, he was a UD fighter. And was smashed 3 times in his peak when the level division increased

Izzy arguably lost to Whittaker 2, Romero, had a snoozer non fight with Jared and went life and death with midget Gastelum.

Aldo dominated everyone including former LW champ Edgar who was from a larger division.

Too many knocks on Izzy

 

[Thatlookinhiseyes]

Why Aldo is above Izzy? Aldo doesn't beat Izzy in no criteria

Aldo has more title defences than izzy.

 

[legedema]

because Israel is shit

 

[orca]

aldo is number 1 for a decade
he wins via domination

izzy had alot of fights like its close

 

[orca]

You're ignoring that the level competition faced by Izzy was way higher than Aldo's in their reigns
Israel best wins: Whittaker, Poatan
Jose best wins: Mendes and Edgard

izzy faced mostly strikers
and romero whos a wrestler that wont wrestle because of his gastank

aldo fought all kinds of fighters and he proved he was still the best

 

[orca]

Aldo is a top 5 goat, izzy is a top 10 goat

where do you put guys like dc who has beaten monsters like gustafson and rumble and The HW GOAT

where would you put stipe as well?

 

[Volodymyr_D]

Aldo ruled a killer division for years. Izzy’s great, but not the same legacy depth yet.

 

[Mind Mine]

A look at the first page of answers should tell you the mindset of the people on this forum evaluating mma skill and how they will latch onto certain things to discredit certain fighters. If you observe objectively what they do and who they do it too you can learn many things about their bitch ass

 

[Ginja_Ninja]

Lost 4 of his last 5 fights.

In my view any fighter who has lost 4 of his last 5 cannot even be considered one of the greatest, even if they're in decline.

Oh and the fight he won of those 5....he was actually losing it before he managed to connect with a shot.

Anderson lost 4 of his last 5 and he is on just about every top 5 list there is.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Yoel won (also he was ancient), Poatan is not an MMA fighter and has been protected his entire UFC career. A win over him has no real merit and the first well-rounded guy he faced (Ank) had no trouble with him. Whittaker is a good win but it's more a matter of style clashes like Silva and Weidman, Izzy jusy has his number. He didn't face monster competition. MW was weak then and its weak now.

Poatan isn't an MMA fighter? He's done pretty well for himself then.

 

[Azure]

TS seems to have fled from his own thread

 

[RockyLockridge]

What a horrible take.... you have to care about the actual skills.... Cormier would make Izzy look like a joke in there. Izzy fought zero good wrestlers in their prime ever... zero... Izzys win over whittaker was his best win and the rematch was razer close...

Izzy didn't lose when he was 38 like Anderson....

Yoel and brunson aren't good wrestlers?

If they aren't whittaker never beat one either. neither did strickland, neither did poatan, neither did weidman.....

 

[RockyLockridge]

where do you put guys like dc who has beaten monsters like gustafson and rumble and The HW GOAT

where would you put stipe as well?

DC I think is outside top 10, Maybe 11 or 12. I have him next to cejudo where ever he is. DC was never the best lhw, and never the best HW. There was no period of time he was number 1 at any weight. You need to be number 1 at a weight class for multiple years to consider being on this list.

My UFC ranking looks something like this (the people in brackets need to have career outside the UFC counted to make list, I put them in the tier they would be in, if I were making an all time MMA list)


(Fedor)
Jones
GSP
Mouse
------------
Aldo
Silva
-------------
Volk
Stipe
(Wanderlei)
-------------
Hughes
Max
Cruz
Izzy
(Rampage)
(Henderson)
--------------
(Big Nog)
DC
Cejudo
Weidman
K. Nurmagomedov
Randy