How special was Mirko Cro Cop?

DayV said:
Cro Cop is actually among the HW's in MMA history with highest number of ranked wins, with 9 Top 10 ranked HW wins.
Only Fedor, Nogueira, Stipe, Werdum & Overeem have more than him.
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/top-10-wins-of-mma-fighters-list.3383459/

Mirko also has many good wins that were not ranked at the time, but were against good and notable fighters, a lot more than the most.
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/⭐tck-star-rating-system-the-heavyweights⭐.4106864/
For example, Coleman was not ranked for Cro Cop, but Stipe is highly ranked in 2023 in UFC, and will stay ranked for the Jones bout wihout having a fight for almost 3 years.
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Cro Cop does not have 9 ranked wins lol

He has 5.

Herring #10
Barnett #3
Barnett #6
Wanderlei #8
Barnett #2

End of list.

... so again; Cro Cop's ranked hit-list basically consisted of beating Barnett three times.

crofighter said:
For example take Ishii. People nowadays might think that was nothing worth mentioning, but you just have to remind yourself that Ishii at that time was at 8 win win-streak with wins over some notable HWs like Sylvia, Pedro Rizzo, Jeff Monson, Fujita, De Fries etc. and was widely regarded as the best HW outside of UFC.
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Ishii was the 20th ranked HW when Cro Cop defeated him. The actual highest ranked HWs outside of the UFC were Vitaly Minakov (Bellator HW champion), Damian Grabowski (M-1 HW champion), and Cheick Kongo (#1 Bellator HW contender).

Not to be rude but Ishii wasn't considered anything special outside of judo.
 
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Taric said:
Cro Cop does not have 9 ranked wins lol

He has 5.

Herring #10
Barnett #3
Barnett #6
Wanderlei #8
Barnett #2

End of list.

... so again; Cro Cop's ranked hit-list basically consisted of beating Barnett three times.


Ishii was the 20th ranked HW when Cro Cop defeated him. The actual highest ranked HWs outside of the UFC were Vitaly Minakov (Bellator HW champion), Damian Grabowski (M-1 HW champion), and Cheick Kongo (#1 Bellator HW contender).

Not to be rude but Ishii wasn't considered anything special outside of judo.
Click to expand...

To be honest though i think that says more about the higher standard of HW at the time, I think Aleks, Coleman, Igor, Randleman, Fujita, Waterman, Yoshida, etc could all likely be top 10 HW's today.
 
Taric said:
Cro Cop does not have 9 ranked wins lol

He has 5.

Herring #10
Barnett #3
Barnett #6
Wanderlei #8
Barnett #2

End of list.

... so again; Cro Cop's ranked hit-list basically consisted of beating Barnett three times.


Ishii was the 20th ranked HW when Cro Cop defeated him. The actual highest ranked HWs outside of the UFC were Vitaly Minakov (Bellator HW champion), Damian Grabowski (M-1 HW champion), and Cheick Kongo (#1 Bellator HW contender).

Not to be rude but Ishii wasn't considered anything special outside of judo.
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Do not post Fightmatrix backwards generated rankings for Pride era when the Fightmatrix site did not exist at that time.
Forget about Fightmatrix generated rankings that did not exist at those times. Fightmatrix did not exist before 2008.

Cro Cop has 9 Top 10 ranked wins by genuine and authentic rankings from those times such as MMA Weekly, MMA Collective - MMA ranks, MMA Media Top 10, Fightsport, Stephen Quadros, MMA News...
 
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In his prime he was the scariest striker I've seen in the sport. He was insanely precise and had so much power in his legs that you were literally mortified at the possibility. His takedown defense and sprawling was elite too.

Abnormal fighter.
 
Taric said:
Cro Cop does not have 9 ranked wins lol

He has 5.

Herring #10
Barnett #3
Barnett #6
Wanderlei #8
Barnett #2

End of list.
Click to expand...

Fightmatrix did not exist before 2008. Fightmatrix rankings are computer generated years later and did not exist at that time.

Authentic rankings from those times for Cro Cop's ranked wins:

Fujita #5 - July 2001
https://web.archive.org/web/20010815130515/http://sherdog.com/daily/july2001/07190101.shtm

Fujita #10 - October 2002
https://web.archive.org/web/20050221092354fw_/http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/magatown/magaranking.htm

Herring #5 - May 2003
https://web.archive.org/web/20030601122330/http://www.mmanews.com/rankings/index.shtml

Vovchanchyn #10 - June 2003
https://web.archive.org/web/20030627205919/http://www.stephenquadros.com:80/SQ_MMA_Top_Ten.html

Barnett #3 - September 2004
https://web.archive.org/web/20040929042326/http://mmaweekly.com/

Randleman #9 - December 2004
https://web.archive.org/web/2004122...sport/news/2004_12_19_fightsport_archive.html

Barnett #6 - September 2005
https://web.archive.org/web/20051004002959/http://www.mmaranks.com:80/hw

Wanderlei #10 - August 2006
https://web.archive.org/web/2007021...sport/news/2006_07_30_fightsport_archive.html

Barnett #4 - August 2006
https://web.archive.org/web/2007021...sport/news/2006_07_30_fightsport_archive.html
 
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Paul E Gensinger said:
well, not as good as Ryan Bader or Bigfoot Silva apparently
Click to expand...
loser-youre-an-idiot.gif
 
Cro Cop sure was special in the UFC.
Won the title, had a LOT of wins, and proved Pride wasn't a YouTube clip freak show with fixed fights, squash matches, and unregulated steroid use.

Oh wait, never mind.
 
DayV said:
Fightmatrix did not exist before 2008. Fightmatrix rankings are computer generated years later and did not exist at that time.

Authentic rankings from those times for Cro Cop's ranked wins:

Fujita #5 - July 2001
https://web.archive.org/web/20010815130515/http://sherdog.com/daily/july2001/07190101.shtm

Fujita #10 - October 2002
https://web.archive.org/web/20050221092354fw_/http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/magatown/magaranking.htm

Herring #5 - May 2003
https://web.archive.org/web/20030601122330/http://www.mmanews.com/rankings/index.shtml

Vovchanchyn #10 - June 2003
https://web.archive.org/web/20030627205919/http://www.stephenquadros.com:80/SQ_MMA_Top_Ten.html

Barnett #3 - September 2004
https://web.archive.org/web/20040929042326/http://mmaweekly.com/

Randleman #9 - December 2004
https://web.archive.org/web/2004122...sport/news/2004_12_19_fightsport_archive.html

Barnett #6 - September 2005
https://web.archive.org/web/20051004002959/http://www.mmaranks.com:80/hw

Wanderlei #10 - August 2006
https://web.archive.org/web/2007021...sport/news/2006_07_30_fightsport_archive.html

Barnett #4 - August 2006
https://web.archive.org/web/2007021...sport/news/2006_07_30_fightsport_archive.html
Click to expand...
Fightmatrix is the aggregate of all the media outlets that existed during the time. So it takes all the historical rankings that existed at the time and averages them, that's how the website works. The website could be made tomorrow and it would still be viable. It's a math equation for hundreds of historical rankings.

Cro Cop and Fujita fought in December of 2002... why are you giving me rankings in July of 2001, 17 months before the fight happened?

... fuck dude. Your argument literally hinges on guys not named Josh Barnett being ranked exactly #10 by one (and only one) media outlet at the time.
 
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Taric said:
Cro Cop and Fujita fought in December of 2002... why are you giving me rankings in July of 2001, 17 months before the fight happened?

... fuck dude. Your argument literally hinges on guys not named Josh Barnett being ranked exactly #10 by one (and only one) media outlet.
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Read again, 2nd ranking is for October 2002, Fujita and Cro Cop rematched in December 2002.

Those are authentic rankings and historic documents, written evidences of how MMA public and media valued fighter at those times, 100% better than fake 10 years later artificed Fightmatrix crap that did not exist at that time.
 
DayV said:
Read again, 2nd ranking is for October 2002, Fujita and Cro Cop rematched in December 2002.

Those are authentic rankings and historic documents, written evidences of how MMA public and media valued fighter at those times, 100% better than fake 10 years later artificed Fightmatrix crap that did not exist at that time.
Click to expand...
To start with, you were the one that put "Fujita #5 - July 2001" not me.
Taric said:
Fightmatrix is the aggregate of all the media outlets that existed during the time. So it takes all the historical rankings that existed at the time and averages them, that's how the website works. The website could be made tomorrow and it would still be viable. It's a math equation for hundreds of historical rankings.
Click to expand...
And it's very telling that you had to use 6 different media rankings to get your #10 ranked fighters where you needed them.

Want to know what's more honest? Using a single source, which you won't be able to do to get Cro Cop 9 career ranked victories. If you can find one source that gives Mirko 9 ranked wins I'll shut up, but you won't be able to do it... which is the entire purpose of using Fightmatrix. It weeds out the outlier rankings.
 
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moreorless87 said:
To be honest though i think that says more about the higher standard of HW at the time, I think Aleks, Coleman, Igor, Randleman, Fujita, Waterman, Yoshida, etc could all likely be top 10 HW's today.
Click to expand...

Except for Aleks none of those HWs, at the time Mirko beat them, would be top10 ranked worldwide today

Taric said:
To start with, you were the one that put "Fujita #5 - July 2001" not me.

And it's very telling that you had to use 6 different media rankings to get your #10 ranked fighters where you needed them.

Want to know what's more honest? Using a single source, which you won't be able to do to get Cro Cop 9 career ranked victories. If you can find one source that gives Mirko 9 ranked wins I'll shut up, but you won't be able to do it... which is the entire purpose of using Fightmatrix. It weeds out the outlier rankings.
Click to expand...

If we nitpick different media rankings, plenty of HWs would surpass Mirko in ranked wins too.
He was very special for his time, just before cagefighting took over. Had lot of mileage by the time he got in UFC to adapt his skill set.
 
Taric said:
To start with, you were the one that put "Fujita #5 - July 2001" not me.

And it's very telling that you had to use 6 different media rankings to get your #10 ranked fighters where you needed them.

Want to know what's more honest? Using a single source, which you won't be able to do to get Cro Cop 9 career ranked victories. If you can find one source that gives Mirko 9 ranked wins I'll shut up, but you won't be able to do it... which is the entire purpose of using Fightmatrix. It weeds out the outlier rankings.
Click to expand...

You are totally rediculous.
One authentic ranking from that time is enough as long as it is genuine written evidence. Consensus established a long time ago on Sherdog forum by majority and users like Rester and Cofee and Beer who gathered genuine rankings for years and compiled legendary threads that used to exist on forum with authentic rankings collections. I only posted one ranking to illustrate, but mostly there are mlutiple. One authentic ranking that represents how were fighters valued at those times by media outfit that had kownledge of the MMA scene is 100% worth more than Fightmatrix and its sheneningans that did not exist at that time.
If some fighter today (like some top Bellator fighter who is not on UFC company rankings ) for example is not ranked on Fightmatrix or MMA Junkie, but is ranked on Sherdog, that is enough. He does not have to be ranked by all rankings, nor is that often possible. It is evidence enough that he was viewd as good fighter at this time.

Fightmatrix did not exist at those times.
Fightmatrix is crap computer retroactive formula shenenigans that had Schilt for example ranked as #1 HW in the world for more than a year in 2000 - 2001, and that is totally bullshit, that never was a fact, and MMA public never viewed it like that.
Keichiro Yamamiya ?? was #4 HW in the world according to Fightmatrix in october 2000?? LOL what crap.
https://www.fightmatrix.com/histori...ted-historical-rankings/?Issue=44&Division=-1

Considering Cro Cop, Fujita is not ranked in Top 10 by Fightmatrix in summer of 2001, but I can find you at least 3 different rankings (MMA Media, Quadros, Fighters Destiny) from that time where he was ranked Top10-Top5.

There are written evidences of authentic rankings from those times for at least 9 Cro Cop's ranked HW wins, and that is a fact.
 
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