How overrated is Anthony Joshua?

[Wanderlei4Life]

AJ is gunshot ever since Ruiz ko’ed him.

He needed to walk and trap Usyk and beat him down with his power against the ropes instead he tried to box him in the middle of the ring.

AJ will not be a hall of famer.

 

[benebox]

This thread is over 2 years late. He was battered by Andy Ruiz already. Everyone who follows boxing knows what he is: a big and strong, robotic but technically solid boxer whose bully psychological advantage has vanished.

I just presumed it wasn't being used due to his opponents style. It made sense to outbox Ruiz and Pulev... I never expected him to try outbox Usyk though.

 

[listrahtes]

I have no idea how impressive his cruiser run was,

Who would have thougt that you have no clue about Usyks career

Luckily I was not debating his cruiser weight career and was focusing specifically on his ability as a HW right?

That is as dumb as a statement as it gets especially with most CW being just small HW and the fact you discredit Usyks CW opponents as Briedis or Gassiev really shows you have little clue. You can live in your little fantasy land were AJ wasnt anything special and Usyk has to "prove" himself. No problem but with reality it does not connect. AJ isnt an alltime great in my book but he was top 2 for years and a top e HW (just as Usyk he is in the elite circle of Olympic Gold medallists). If not list the names above him or shut up. By beating AJ Usyk has arrived at the top of HW. I guess if AJ wins the rematch (someone with his power can definitely catch anyone) Usyk was never good.

If you know even a little about boxing you use past fights to determine skill level and standing. . Doesnt matter if its RJJ, Toney, Lomachenko, Mayweather, Haye, Holy, Canelo or now Usyk. To ignore that is just retarded. But well you have your little agenda so lets let you have that.

 

[Roids]

I did use past fights. He struggled with gate keeper Chisora , yet 1 fight later he's apparently near ATG. lol casuals.

Lets see how long he stays champ. I have a long memory and your comments are noted.

 

[Blake_UK]

Haters out in force today.

AJ is, without a shadow of a doubt, a world class HW boxer. He has supreme genetics, knockout power, excellent reach, good movement for his size, reasonable conditioning and a decent (but not great) chin.

The fact that he lost to probably the present p4p king (alongside Canelo) doesn't in any way make him a bum.

Styles makes fights. The fact a solid puncher lost to a slick boxer because he failed to press is nothing new. AJ is the best of the "big men".

AJ beats everyone at HW except Fury and Usyk imo, and maybe Joe Joyce (who I'm a big fan of).

Funnily enough, I actually think that Joyce has the best chance of anyone of beating Fury because he is the toughest/biggest HW out there atmo and is the only one who Fury could neither bully or KO.

 

[Blake_UK]

I did use past fights. He struggled with gate keeper Chisora , yet 1 fight later he's apparently near ATG. lol casuals.

Lets see how long he stays champ. I have a long memory and your comments are noted.

He didn't struggle - aside from the lack of a KO that fight was essentially a shut out.
Chisora represents the worst style match up for a boxer like Usyk - a solid brawler with a lot of heart who constantly presses.

 

[Roids]

He didn't struggle - aside from the lack of a KO that fight was essentially a shut out.
Chisora represents the worst style match up for a boxer like Usyk - a solid brawler with a lot of heart who constantly presses.

But Usyk came out on top by scores of 117-112 and 115-113 twice.

That's not a shut out. Do you even know how boxing scoring works?

 

[Blake_UK]

That's not a shut out. Do you even know how boxing scoring works?

I don't care about the scoring (which as we all know is often questionable at best).

I watched that fight (and I'm a fan of Delboy). At no point did Chisora look like winning. I also think Usyk held back.
It was like watching a good small guy play with a big boy in sparring.

 

[Roids]

Whoever claimed Chisora looked like winning? Google 'strawman' When you resort to conspiracy theories to excuse poor performances, you have lost the debate sorry. Your ATG struggled with a 36 year old gate keeper. FACT.

 

[aries]

Whoever claimed Chisora looked like winning? Google 'strawman' When you resort to conspiracy theories to excuse poor performances, you have lost the debate sorry. Your ATG struggled with a 36 year old gate keeper. FACT.

Usyk sandbagged against Chisora. I'm convinced of that now. Evidence? When he had him hurt he backed off and let him fully recover. And any one with a pair of eyes can see that Usyk from the Joshua fight would steamroll Chisora now. Yes Usyk struggled with Chisora, because that's how he wanted it to look. He did just enough to win. Expect Usyk to look brilliant from here on out.

 

[Roids]

Usyk sandbagged against Chisora. I'm convinced of that now. Evidence? When he had him hurt he backed off and let him fully recover. And any one with a pair of eyes can see that Usyk from the Joshua fight would steamroll Chisora now. Yes Usyk struggled with Chisora, because that's how he wanted it to look. He did just enough to win. Expect Usyk to look brilliant from here on out.

Because that would be the first time in history a fighter has been cautious when he has his opponent hurt for a moment right? You can resort to conspiracy theories to make yourself sleep better but I will stick to reality. Just for comedy, I'm wondering why a fighter would chose to sand bag vs an average opponent rather than look spectacular? To not scare Aj off? lul.

Expect Usyk to look brilliant from here on out

Cool. Looking forward to seeing how well this comment ages. Another one on the list.

 

[Old Cat]

I wonder if we have three posters who work for a specific promoter?

 

[randomg1t]

I did use past fights. He struggled with gate keeper Chisora , yet 1 fight later he's apparently near ATG. lol casuals.

Lets see how long he stays champ. I have a long memory and your comments are noted.

tell us who is good then, mr badass.

i'm sure i can tear their career to shit in a single ignorant post, too.

 

[aries]

Because that would be the first time in history a fighter has been cautious when he has his opponent hurt for a moment right? You can resort to conspiracy theories to make yourself sleep better but I will stick to reality. Just for comedy, I'm wondering why a fighter would chose to sand bag vs an average opponent rather than look spectacular? To not scare Aj off? lul.



Cool. Looking forward to seeing how well this comment ages. Another one on the list.

Partly and to get AJ to underestimate Usyk. Peter Fury and Fury himself both think this, so it's not some loony theory. AJ was the heavy favourite going into this fight and a lot of Usyk naysayers brought up his unimpressive fight against Chisora. Just like you are still bringing it up now even after this masterful performance. Yeah it will be interesting to see how Usyk performs from this point on.
Here's Peter Fury giving his opinion on Usyk struggling with Chisora (timestamped):

 

[Roids]

tell us who is good then, mr badass.

i'm sure i can tear their career to shit in a single ignorant post, too.

You mean who is amazing in todays HW division? Nobody. Fury is the best of an average bunch but is still overrated. The fact that someone like Usyk is considered amazing by many just proves that. You think he would really stand out vs the 90s and 00s era top contenders? The Mercers, Gollotta's, Brewsters, Sanders? Really? Those guys didn't just stand off throwing weak jabs and scared to attack.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

I just presumed it wasn't being used due to his opponents style. It made sense to outbox Ruiz and Pulev... I never expected him to try outbox Usyk though.

I think the problem Joshua has is can he pressure and fight like delboy against usyk? It’s completely alien to him, he’s a boxer not a brawler. As he’s taking the rematch he has to fight differently but I don’t think it’s gonna work. We know fury can spoil and fight dirty like in the Cunningham fight. That’s what Joshua needs to do but I just don’t see him being competent at fighting that way in the few months between the rematch. He should be looking at this rematch further down the line imo

 

[aries]

I think the problem Joshua has is can he pressure and fight like delboy against usyk? It’s completely alien to him, he’s a boxer not a brawler. As he’s taking the rematch he has to fight differently but I don’t think it’s gonna work. We know fury can spoil and fight dirty like in the Cunningham fight. That’s what Joshua needs to do but I just don’t see him being competent at fighting that way in the few months between the rematch. He should be looking at this rematch further down the line imo

I totally agree. The adjustment he made for Ruiz was well within his capabilities but to turn into a pressure fighter just isn't natural to him. And Usyk hurt him so it's only going to put more doubt in his mind to adopt a pressure fighter style. The Wlad style of boxing would be perfect for AJ but how's he going to learn and implement that in a few months? He's not very good at clinching as we saw when he got into trouble with Ruiz, so I'm doubtful he'll be able to master it in a few months.

I get why they have the immediate rematch clause but in this situation I think it's best to let the belts go because coming back from a second time being dominated in quick succession is going be even harder to come back from.

 

[randomg1t]

You mean who is amazing in todays HW division? Nobody. Fury is the best of an average bunch but is still overrated. The fact that someone like Usyk is considered amazing by many just proves that. You think he would really stand out vs the 90s and 00s era top contenders? The Mercers, Gollotta's, Brewsters, Sanders? Really? Those guys didn't just stand off throwing weak jabs and scared to attack.

tell me who is a good boxer today then, you bitter old man.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

I totally agree. The adjustment he made for Ruiz was well within his capabilities but to turn into a pressure fighter just isn't natural to him. And Usyk hurt him so it's only going to put more doubt in his mind to adopt a pressure fighter style. The Wlad style of boxing would be perfect for AJ but how's he going to learn and implement that in a few months? He's not very good at clinching as we saw when he got into trouble with Ruiz, so I'm doubtful he'll be able to master it in a few months.

I get why they have the immediate rematch clause but in this situation I think it's best to let the belts go because coming back from a second time being dominated in quick succession is going be even harder to come back from.

Absolutely. The adjustments he made for Ruiz 2 were already in his tool box. He turned in to the aggressive KO artist when all of his opponents started falling over as a pro.
He needs time make those adjustments, and it will take more than a few months imo

 

[RDL81]

I totally agree. The adjustment he made for Ruiz was well within his capabilities but to turn into a pressure fighter just isn't natural to him. And Usyk hurt him so it's only going to put more doubt in his mind to adopt a pressure fighter style. The Wlad style of boxing would be perfect for AJ but how's he going to learn and implement that in a few months? He's not very good at clinching as we saw when he got into trouble with Ruiz, so I'm doubtful he'll be able to master it in a few months.

I get why they have the immediate rematch clause but in this situation I think it's best to let the belts go because coming back from a second time being dominated in quick succession is going be even harder to come back from.

AJ form whyte fight could get the job done he needs to go back to being nasty and bigger. Not sure if he has it in him anymore. Also he could easily gas but coming in big and aggressive settle in for a couple of rounds behind a hard jab not that crap one from Saturday and then just take it too him go for a stoppage until he runs out of gas like the local BP garage.

If he doesn’t take the rematch the belts would scatter and he won’t get shot until 2023 at the earliest. Eddie has said as much . Even if he looses the rematch there is likely to be fights there vs wilder / whyte and maybe fury (later) if he wants them