How overrated is Anthony Joshua?

kingmob6 said:
You got something here....

AJ is not a bad boxer, otherwise he woudn't win the olympics and have a pretty good record. But he has limitations. He isn't an all time great. He is great for the time, which isn't that great in the ranks of HW eras. He is a great money maker though. He isn't even better than Wlad, who was a much better boxer. Both AJ & Wilder are incomplete fighters when compared to other greats. You are seeing a rise to the top of real, technical boxers now, like Fury and Usyk. Now that's a match up that can decide the crown. Seeing Usyk do this to AJ, kind of tells you how his potential fight with Fury would have gone. Tyson would have boxed his head off.
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I never said Josh was a terrible boxer he's good but not great Mike Tyson would've beaten Fury, Usyk; Josh also Wilder even Lennox jumps on smaller Usyk and stops him in the first, Riddick also stops him early, I don't understand all of this over hyping of Usyk, maybe because he's European and his fans are also Europeans.

Usyk is a good fighter but not this all time great, a good boxer beat another good boxer and that's all, Josh beats Usyk in their rematch, then they probably have a third fight, Josh isn't fighting Fury nor Wilder anytime soon neither is Usyk they have two more fights to have to settle their battles and show who's the better fighter, so that doors closed unless Josh just blasts Usyk in one round and Usyk needs time to recover and start over, if the fights are close then it's a Trilogy money making fights, so if Fury doesn't retire and waits about two years then we will see a fight between Fury and whoever wins, because Josh only fights twice a year he's not going to speed things up so we can see him lose again against Wilder or Fury, so it's more waiting years, untill 2023, Josh isn't letting this guy beat him two more times.

Fury probably won't stay around and retire but might come back in two years to fight the winner, Wilder is up their in age and will be past prime anyway he's 35 and in two years will be 37 years old, so that fight won't show us anything anyway, Josh is only 31 and will be champion for another 7 years losing and winning back his titles, Usyk is 34 and will be 36 in two years and might be past prime anyway, so a fight with Fury might not tell us much, Fury is only 33 so he's good for another 4 years, but he's already hinting retirement, he will probably take two years off anyway to rest his body and mind but stay in shape in the gym.

We will have to wait and see what happens.
 
tekkennlee said:
I never said Josh was a terrible boxer he's good but not great Mike Tyson would've beaten Fury, Usyk; Josh also Wilder even Lennox jumps on smaller Usyk and stops him in the first, Riddick also stops him early, I don't understand all of this over hyping of Usyk, maybe because he's European and his fans are also Europeans.

Usyk is a good fighter but not this all time great, a good boxer beat another good boxer and that's all, Josh beats Usyk in their rematch, then they probably have a third fight, Josh isn't fighting Fury nor Wilder anytime soon neither is Usyk they have two more fights to have to settle their battles and show who's the better fighter, so that doors closed unless Josh just blasts Usyk in one round and Usyk needs time to recover and start over, if the fights are close then it's a Trilogy money making fights, so if Fury doesn't retire and waits about two years then we will see a fight between Fury and whoever wins, because Josh only fights twice a year he's not going to speed things up so we can see him lose again against Wilder or Fury, so it's more waiting years, untill 2023, Josh isn't letting this guy beat him two more times.

Fury probably won't stay around and retire but might come back in two years to fight the winner, Wilder is up their in age and will be past prime anyway he's 35 and in two years will be 37 years old, so that fight won't show us anything anyway, Josh is only 31 and will be champion for another 7 years losing and winning back his titles, Usyk is 34 and will be 36 in two years and might be past prime anyway, so a fight with Fury might not tell us much, Fury is only 33 so he's good for another 4 years, but he's already hinting retirement, he will probably take two years off anyway to rest his body and mind but stay in shape in the gym.

We will have to wait and see what happens.
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There’s no way Joshua beats Usyk in the rematch. He just isn’t good enough.
 
Seano said:
I liked Howard Foster score but not the way he got there. First two for Joshua? Joshua won a bunch of mid rounds but didn't get much done early.
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I had 117-111 Usyk but the 2nd round I had marked as one that you could give Joshua. Only way to get him to 4 rounds/116-112 from my seat, but...
 
Mr2urbo said:
His fights are exciting, (except for the Ruiz rematch)

And it’s also convenient that you come out with a thread saying AJ overrated after he loses when the majority picked him to beat Usyk.
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Eeehh... isn't that exactly what would make him overrated?
 
I think he's rated about right. I don't think any boxing fans think or even thought he was amazing in any particular area. He's always just been 'good' at most things... fairly fast, he's powerful... decent movement but nothing special; he's become some bizarre version of himself after the Ruiz loss though, he's trying to be a slick boxer which is not his strengths or his style, and he looks gunshy. He should have just tried launching haymakers at Usyk.

But yeah I guess some people saw him as... a great. But I've never seen him as that great. I remember after the Ruiz loss I saw some boxing pundits saying the upset rivaled the Tyson/Douglas upset and I thought... are you out of your mind? Not even remotely close. Nobody saw Joshua as some utterly invincible perfect boxing machine, which is exactly how Tyson was seen at that point. Joshua had already been on the canvas prior to that, and was not amazing at anything skills-wise; it was an upset, but not even in the same universe as that.
 
tekkennlee said:
I never said Josh was a terrible boxer he's good but not great Mike Tyson would've beaten Fury, Usyk; Josh also Wilder even Lennox jumps on smaller Usyk and stops him in the first, Riddick also stops him early, I don't understand all of this over hyping of Usyk, maybe because he's European and his fans are also Europeans.

Usyk is a good fighter but not this all time great, a good boxer beat another good boxer and that's all, Josh beats Usyk in their rematch, then they probably have a third fight, Josh isn't fighting Fury nor Wilder anytime soon neither is Usyk they have two more fights to have to settle their battles and show who's the better fighter, so that doors closed unless Josh just blasts Usyk in one round and Usyk needs time to recover and start over, if the fights are close then it's a Trilogy money making fights, so if Fury doesn't retire and waits about two years then we will see a fight between Fury and whoever wins, because Josh only fights twice a year he's not going to speed things up so we can see him lose again against Wilder or Fury, so it's more waiting years, untill 2023, Josh isn't letting this guy beat him two more times.

Fury probably won't stay around and retire but might come back in two years to fight the winner, Wilder is up their in age and will be past prime anyway he's 35 and in two years will be 37 years old, so that fight won't show us anything anyway, Josh is only 31 and will be champion for another 7 years losing and winning back his titles, Usyk is 34 and will be 36 in two years and might be past prime anyway, so a fight with Fury might not tell us much, Fury is only 33 so he's good for another 4 years, but he's already hinting retirement, he will probably take two years off anyway to rest his body and mind but stay in shape in the gym.

We will have to wait and see what happens.
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Why wait and see? Apparently you have a crystal ball.
 
DoNoootin said:
I think he's rated about right. I don't think any boxing fans think or even thought he was amazing in any particular area. He's always just been 'good' at most things... fairly fast, he's powerful... decent movement but nothing special; he's become some bizarre version of himself after the Ruiz loss though, he's trying to be a slick boxer which is not his strengths or his style, and he looks gunshy. He should have just tried launching haymakers at Usyk.

But yeah I guess some people saw him as... a great. But I've never seen him as that great. I remember after the Ruiz loss I saw some boxing pundits saying the upset rivaled the Tyson/Douglas upset and I thought... are you out of your mind? Not even remotely close. Nobody saw Joshua as some utterly invincible perfect boxing machine, which is exactly how Tyson was seen at that point. Joshua had already been on the canvas prior to that, and was not amazing at anything skills-wise; it was an upset, but not even in the same universe as that.
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They used to think he was invincible until chubby Ruiz exposed him. Then chubby Ruiz got chubbier. That’s all
 
The Chosen said:
There’s no way Joshua beats Usyk in the rematch. He just isn’t good enough.
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He's good enough because he was beating him in spurts in the fight he wasn't consistent enough to get the victory, if he wins early rounds and wins late rounds the championship rounds staying out of trouble he will win the rematch, he did this against Andy in their rematch just minor adjustments gets him the win.
 
Vampire life said:
They used to think he was invincible until chubby Ruiz exposed him. Then chubby Ruiz got chubbier. That’s all
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Really? I never thought for a second he was invincible. He got floored with Vladimir and you could see many holes in his game anyway. Never had that perception.
 
randomg1t said:
so being the first man since holyfield to unify the CW division, the first man to do it since there are 4 major belts, doing it in his opponents' backyard, not to mention the murderers list of motherfuckers he beat to do that - that doesn't move him past "slightly above average"?
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Yes it sounds amazing on paper, and impressive to a casual, but if you actually analyze it beneath the head lines, its far less impressive. In reality he has 3 fights at HW with one impressive performance vs a flawed champion who himself was not special no matter how many belts he held and he wasn't even regarded as undisputed best in the division. I have no idea how impressive his cruiser run was, its a pretty dead division and he only had 16 fights there. Did Buster Douglas qualify as an amazing fighter when he destroyed Tyson to be undisputed?

MoreKane said:
Usyk’s movement throughout entire 12 rounds how he is able to maintain speed, his engine and workrate is unprecedented for a man that size. Saying he isn’t special is trolling. Cleared out the cruiser weight division, unified and just beat the top HW in the world in 19 fights. Dude is past HOF status and is creeping up on all time great status
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Dude did you start watching Boxing yesterday? Buster Douglas's performance vs Tyson was far more impressive. His speed, power, combinations for 10 rounds to beat up and stop a legit great fighter was a genuinely amazing display of boxing. His jab in that fight was one of the best ever. Usyk did a lot of moving, showed good cardio/work rate but his actual boxing performance was really nothing special if you compare it to previous HW Champs. Standards have just fallen so low that performance is considered so amazing. Claiming he is creeping upto ATG status is what I would say is almost trolling. He has a total of 19 fights and 3 at HW.

listrahtes said:
You are kidding right? He beat the nr.1 HW in the world in impressive fashion and you write about as he has to prove himself. Lmaoo Usyk is an alltime top5 at CW . He has delivered elite fights for years and now beat the nr.1 at HW. Call him nr.2 if you value Fury higher right now doesnt change much. It was just the same when Holyfield defeated Douglas or Haye went up. As soon as they show their skill level vs. the elite they have arrived.
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Josh was not regarded as the No 1 HW champ, and was stopped only 2 fights ago. He won a clear decision but nowhere near impressive as Ruiz, did it, so did Ruiz become an an amazing fighter when he beat up the then undefeated AJ? Or was he another flash in the pan? If out boxing a defeated AJ proved great fighter status, what did stopping an undefeated AJ prove for Ruiz?
 
DoNoootin said:
Really? I never thought for a second he was invincible. He got floored with Vladimir and you could see many holes in his game anyway. Never had that perception.
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Holes in his game isn’t even the description I would use. The man is as great as you can be as a pro boxer without actually really truly being a boxer. He has great physical gifts, and he can go throw well, but he’s not truly a craftsman IMO.

The worst part is that when you’re a powerful hitter and great athlete, then your best work is going to be as a brawler. But he’s going the opposite direction and trying to box and it’s really to his detriment.
 
JSN said:
Holes in his game isn’t even the description I would use. The man is as great as you can be as a pro boxer without actually really truly being a boxer. He has great physical gifts, and he can go throw well, but he’s not truly a craftsman IMO.

The worst part is that when you’re a powerful hitter and great athlete, then your best work is going to be as a brawler. But he’s going the opposite direction and trying to box and it’s really to his detriment.
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100%
He's not playing to his strengths
The Ruiz loss fucked him up
 
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Roids said:
I have no idea how impressive his cruiser run was
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exactly, which is why we're saying you don't know shit about boxing.

i'm sure you're convinced you're an expert, but you need to sit this one out, chief.
 
randomg1t said:
exactly, which is why we're saying you don't know shit about boxing.

i'm sure you're convinced you're an expert, but you need to sit this one out, chief.
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Luckily I was not debating his cruiser weight career and was focusing specifically on his ability as a HW right?
 
Kendodsworth said:
But in all your post your essentially saying Usyk isn't a good boxer. You keep saying "what movement" "what footwork" "what speed" you just said he's a slow heavyweight for god sake....if you knew anything about boxing and was a genuine boxing fan and yano had this "training" your talking about you'd appreciate that Usyk has all of those qualities.
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I will explain myself again, Usyk is a good boxer that has flaws and Josh let him get away with his flaws that Fury wouldn't let him get away with his flaws, Josh isn't an intelligent in the fight thinking fighter that makes adjustments, he's robotic and gun shy, what super hand speed does Usyk have ? there's normal heavyweight boxing gand speed and incredible heavyweight hand speed, Usyk has your normal heavyweight hand speed he's just as fast as Josh, both are normal.



Where's this incredible hand speed ? Where's this incredible footwork ? Usyk is going side to side backing straight back and then darting in firing punches, Josh is doing the exact same thing, Whitaker has incredible footwork and defensive footwork, Usyk has ordinary footwork,, Josh is backing straight up getting caught you never back straight up, you step over pivot your foot to change the angle, Usyk doesn't do this either, James Tony was a master of footwork, head movement.


 
Roids said:
Luckily I was not debating his cruiser weight career and was focusing specifically on his ability as a HW right?
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of which you seem to know nothing as well.

and if we're being pedantic, you were simply calling him slightly above average. which, i'm sorry to say again, makes you look clueless.
 
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