How overrated is Anthony Joshua?

[Ancient Warrior]

I didn’t get to see the fight yet, but I think it’s wise to use caution when talking in absolutes after one night.

 

[Smashus Clay]

Scored the fight 115 -113, I though Usyk won the early rounds, clear, but AJ did some good work through the mid rounds until Usyk really turned it on late. Felt like I ended up giving AJ some rounds where he juuust scraped it when Usyk's rounds were much more clear.

Thought AJ was looking like Canelo to start the fight... but it was the ginger from the Mayweather fight, electing to box with the superior boxer

 

[Mr2urbo]

What incredible speed & movement ? Josh hit Usyk with his right while timing his head movement, Uasyk has a certain head movement pattern that Josh figured out, Josh didn't commit to his jab, he just used it as a range finder to see what Usyk would do, once he learned Usyk's pattern of movements, then Josh should've committed to his jabs but he continued to use it as a range finder this hurt his chances to win, the jab is the most important weapon in boxing without being confident to establish your power jabs you won't win a fight period, Josh never trusted his jab and fought cautious and this won't work he's bigger stronger longer but didn't utilize his strengths he fought down to Usyk's size fighting small.

You jab snap your opponents head back then throw combos head body, then use defensive movement boxing is easy when you establish your jab, this blinds your opponents temporarily and allows you to fire shots they don't see coming.

Usyk is a small slow heavyweight but his southpaw stance bothers certain fighters because they weren't taught the correct footwork aggression angles to get in punching range firing straight rights and body shots plus jabs they either can't pick this up or weren't taught everything, some trainer -s are limited in boxing knowledge, so Josh needs to get with others to learn the right techniques to beat southpaws, notice certain fighters have no trouble fighting southpaw fighters just watch Chavez Sr against southpaw fighters and Floyd against Zab, when he adjusted used constant smart pressure with straight rights body attacks and hooks with jabs watch his footwork, Floyd made it look easy but at first had serious trouble with Zab, even getting rocked hurt badly, if Floyd didn't make the correct adjustments he would've lost that fight because he's fighting a fight Josh did against Usyk, the same fight with the exact same results but Josh never adjusted, while Floyd adjusted and after that made everything look easy, Chavez Sr came out fighting the right fight against southpaw boxers like Camacho, fighting the exact same fight Floyd adjusted and fought against Zab, after looking the same way against Zab early like Josh looked against Usyk for 12 rounds.


Chavez uses the correct smart pressure head movement straight rights jabs not letting Camacho get set he's always off balance and on a definitive minded mode but getting hit with body shots jabs straight rights, others didn't do this and got beat by Camacho even older Ray, Whitaker is on a different level of defense and could adjust but others have done this to Whitaker although there's his cocaine issues so who knows, Whitaker still could be beat, Usyk isn't on Whitakers level of talent even Loma who's incredibly talented gifted isn't on Whitakers level of defense and footwork but Loma is very good.


Floyd was having the same trouble problems Josh had against Usyk, but Floyd made the adjustments otherwise he's losing the fight, just smart pressure correct footwork foot placement and keeping Zab off balance backing up while firing straight rights and body work nullified everything Zab could do, it's easy when you know what your doing, if you don't know how to take a southpaws advantages away they easily beat you, Josh never adjusted.

Geesh, Usyk will never get the respect he deserves

He has an uncanny ability to gauge and time opponents distance in as little as one round, from there he shifts into high gear with high volume and footwork, makes it nearly impossible for anyone to keep up with, and im no coach but I think someone like Ruiz matches up pretty well with Usyk because he can match his volume and mobility but thats it, as for AJ? He was puzzled as fuck with Usyk’s footwork, he just doesnt have the ring iq and smarts to compete at the highest level and fortunately for him Fury and Usyk are the two highest levels when it comes to ring smarts, once again im no coach but AJ’s best chance in the rematch is to let his hands go and trust his conditioning, and last but not least, he has to stink up the place, and by stink up I mean tie Usyk up and muscle him around, its going to be ugly but other than that I dont see hiw else he acquires the knowledge of Chavez Sr and Floyd against sp’s.

 

[tekkennlee]

When is your fight with this slow small heavyweight? You clearly have him figured out better than all the other 19 opponents he's had...if you don't fancy the fight give wilder a phone call he could do with a new coach.

Don't have to be a boxing coach to understand boxing, especially when you have had training.

Fury explains how to beat Usyk and what's Josh's problems he has, I don't agree with Fury about going all out trying to knock him out early especially being a heavyweight but smart intelligent pressure takes away Usyk strength's always keeping him in defensive mode so he can't get set watch Chavez Sr vs Camacho and Floyd adjustments against Zab after Zab was doing to Floyd what Uayk was doing to Josh, if Floyd doesn't adjust in the fight Floyd gets beat like Josh even beat up badly taking left hands from Zab, it's just film study, you watch the masters at work the all time greats and learn their adjustments attack against certain opponents and work at this in the gym constantly until it becomes muscle memory and imbedded your brain, it's second nature, you automatically adjust but some trainers fighters don't do this they have their own game-plans, then everyone tells them to go learn from Floyd, I wonder why because he knows how to adjust to every style.

 

[Vampire life]

I still think he's overrated
Ever since the Ruiz fight

 

[RDL81]

I liked Howard Foster score but not the way he got there. First two for Joshua? Joshua won a bunch of mid rounds but didn't get much done early.

2nd round was an AJ one for me (and others I know) but that was it early doors

 

[Kendodsworth]

Don't have to be a boxing coach to understand boxing, especially when you have had training.

Fury explains how to beat Usyk and what's Josh's problems he has, I don't agree with Fury about going all out trying to knock him out early especially being a heavyweight but smart intelligent pressure takes away Usyk strength's always keeping him in defensive mode so he can't get set watch Chavez Sr vs Camacho and Floyd adjustments against Zab after Zab was doing to Floyd what Uayk was doing to Josh, if Floyd doesn't adjust in the fight Floyd gets beat like Josh even beat up badly taking left hands from Zab, it's just film study, you watch the masters at work the all time greats and learn their adjustments attack against certain opponents and work at this in the gym constantly until it becomes muscle memory and imbedded your brain, it's second nature, you automatically adjust but some trainers fighters don't do this they have their own game-plans, then everyone tells them to go learn from Floyd, I wonder why because he knows how to adjust to every style.

But in all your post your essentially saying Usyk isn't a good boxer. You keep saying "what movement" "what footwork" "what speed" you just said he's a slow heavyweight for god sake....if you knew anything about boxing and was a genuine boxing fan and yano had this "training" your talking about you'd appreciate that Usyk has all of those qualities.

 

[listrahtes]

So far he has had 3 HW fights. 1st was against a 40 year old bum, second he struggled vs a gate keeper, and then he beat AJ. Lets see how impressive his HW career will be, and then we will see who really knows boxing.

You are kidding right? He beat the nr.1 HW in the world in impressive fashion and you write about as he has to prove himself. <Lmaoo> Usyk is an alltime top5 at CW . He has delivered elite fights for years and now beat the nr.1 at HW. Call him nr.2 if you value Fury higher right now doesnt change much. It was just the same when Holyfield defeated Douglas or Haye went up. As soon as they show their skill level vs. the elite they have arrived.

We can be sceptical if someone gets a fast ko but Usyk put on a masterclass over a whole fight. There are no questions about his level left. Still Fury and Whyte are legit threats. But that only means Usyk would be at the worst nr.3 in the world.

 

[YourBoss]

He will go down as the Nr.3 or 4 of the current era which will stretch from 2014/15-2025 post Klitscko with Fury, Usyk and Wilder being his 3 main rivals. He has 7 defenses? 9 title fights, and a couple of good wins against solid opponents and some very very old, but still good former champs/legends. In terms of all time he will probably make the top 40. So overall a very very good fighter, but for sure no legendary phenome like some of his deluded mancrush fans claimed.

 

[YourBoss]

Geesh, Usyk will never get the respect he deserves

He has an uncanny ability to gauge and time opponents distance in as little as one round, from there he shifts into high gear with high volume and footwork, makes it nearly impossible for anyone to keep up with, and im no coach but I think someone like Ruiz matches up pretty well with Usyk because he can match his volume and mobility but thats it, as for AJ? He was puzzled as fuck with Usyk’s footwork, he just doesnt have the ring iq and smarts to compete at the highest level and fortunately for him Fury and Usyk are the two highest levels when it comes to ring smarts, once again im no coach but AJ’s best chance in the rematch is to let his hands go and trust his conditioning, and last but not least, he has to stink up the place, and by stink up I mean tie Usyk up and muscle him around, its going to be ugly but other than that I dont see hiw else he acquires the knowledge of Chavez Sr and Floyd against sp’s.

Ruiz matches up well with Usyk? Ruiz?????? What? The fat pudding that can barely move faster than a snail with his feet is gonna catch Usyk who has ATG footwork and mobility? Usyk would dominate Ruiz and based on Ruiz last performance perhabs even drop him a couple of times.

 

[Mr2urbo]

Ruiz matches up well with Usyk? Ruiz?????? What? The fat pudding that can barely move faster than a snail with his feet is gonna catch Usyk who has ATG footwork and mobility? Usyk would dominate Ruiz and based on Ruiz last performance perhabs even drop him a couple of times.

Based on Ruiz’ last fight without question Usyk dominates

Pre AJ Ruiz matches up well with Usyk, fast combinations, chin and conditioning, but yeah Usyk woukd still win.

 

[tekkennlee]

Geesh, Usyk will never get the respect he deserves

He has an uncanny ability to gauge and time opponents distance in as little as one round, from there he shifts into high gear with high volume and footwork, makes it nearly impossible for anyone to keep up with, and im no coach but I think someone like Ruiz matches up pretty well with Usyk because he can match his volume and mobility but thats it, as for AJ? He was puzzled as fuck with Usyk’s footwork, he just doesnt have the ring iq and smarts to compete at the highest level and fortunately for him Fury and Usyk are the two highest levels when it comes to ring smarts, once again im no coach but AJ’s best chance in the rematch is to let his hands go and trust his conditioning, and last but not least, he has to stink up the place, and by stink up I mean tie Usyk up and muscle him around, its going to be ugly but other than that I dont see hiw else he acquires the knowledge of Chavez Sr and Floyd against sp’s.

Usyk finds his range and attack by using probing shots that aren't meant to land, they are reaction shots, he then waits to see his opponents footwork, if they go straight back or use certain angles and how they counter attack he's not doing anything Josh wasn't doing, Josh was hesitant to commit to his jabs but found out Usyk moves his head in a certain constant side and started to land power rights hurting Usyk then doing great body work, Josh should've committed to his jab using constant smart pressure walking Usyk down with straight rights hooks and body attack, Josh was successful when he did this but he stopped because he has stamina issues he's pacing himself to much and gives up rounds, Josh was doing what I said but only in certain rounds then resting a couple of rounds, Usyk had no answers for this, but noticed Josh likes to rest, Josh did this against Klitchko and Ruiz plus others Ruiz attacked Josh walking him down firing punches just like Usyk did something Usyk learned from Ruiz, if Josh put on constant pressure like he was doing with the rights and body work he wins the fight easily but like Josh always does he's inactive and resting this inactivity cost him the fight while Usyk understood Josh's stamina issues he attacks him in the championship rounds and sealed the win.

Josh team makes little adjustments and Josh wins easily in the rematch, because he won't be gun shy and attacks Usyk Josh probably doesn't bulk up and stays lean so his massive bulk doesn't sap up his oxygen this drains him, he hasn't conditioned himself to fight with massive bulky muscles, so he needs to recover his muscle recovery time is terrible unlike Evanders and Lennox and Bowes muscle recovery time, Lennox never looked gassed even after throwing massive combos against Ruddock and others, Josh better fix these problems or he will win fights then keep losing fights he should win.

I never said I didn't respect Usyk he's a good boxer but isn't the second coming of the messiah certain fans are making him out to be, this happens all of the time certain fighters look good and beat the champion who's been beaten stopped and has issues but dans love their countrymen their heroes so this is understandable but others bring them back to reality by explaining your fighter isn't as good as you think he is so take a deep breath and think for a minute enjoy your win but understand Usyk might get beat in the rematch and against others so wait and see after he's faced everyone to crown him the Jesus of boxing but this won't happen they will bash others call them names insult them, but when reality sets in and he loses they will claim injuries and other excuses but that's how the world is.

 

[Seano]

2nd round was an AJ one for me (and others I know) but that was it early doors

I think the first one I gave him was the 3rd or 4th.

I'll have to watch this fight again.

 

[tekkennlee]

But in all your post your essentially saying Usyk isn't a good boxer. You keep saying "what movement" "what footwork" "what speed" you just said he's a slow heavyweight for god sake....if you knew anything about boxing and was a genuine boxing fan and yano had this "training" your talking about you'd appreciate that Usyk has all of those qualities.

I never said Usyk wasn't an intelligent good boxer, I was explaining he's not one of the greatest boxer ever like certain posters are trying to make him out to be, Josh can beat him easily in a rematch, Usyk is good but Josh let him win that fight, Josh is funny like that, he's always fighting at the level of his competition and sometime loses, Usyk is a good boxer but he isn't a boxing master, he's no Whitaker or Loma, he's good and smart but could easily be beat, I don't crown fighters for one good win unlike others, I understand techniques, styles, weaknesses, strengths' skills and tell it like it is, certain fighters are good fighters and others are ordinary, while a few are special. Usyk is good but Josh will beat him in their rematch.

 

[Kendodsworth]

I never said I didn't respect Usyk he's a good boxer but isn't the second coming of the messiah certain fans are making him out to be, this happens all of the time certain fighters look good and beat the champion who's been beaten stopped and has issues but dans love their countrymen their heroes so this is understandable but others bring them back to reality by explaining your fighter isn't as good as you think he is so take a deep breath and think for a minute enjoy your win but understand Usyk might get beat in the rematch and against others so wait and see after he's faced everyone to crown him the Jesus of boxing but this won't happen they will bash others call them names insult them, but when reality sets in and he loses they will claim injuries and other excuses but that's how the world is.

I never said Usyk wasn't an intelligent good boxer, I was explaining he's not one of the greatest boxer ever like certain posters are trying to make him out to be, Josh can beat him easily in a rematch, Usyk is good but Josh let him win that fight, Josh is funny like that, he's always fighting at the level of his competition and sometime loses, Usyk is a good boxer but he isn't a boxing master, he's no Whitaker or Loma, he's good and smart but could easily be beat, I don't crown fighters for one good win unlike others, I understand techniques, styles, weaknesses, strengths' skills and tell it like it is, certain fighters are good fighters and others are ordinary, while a few are special. Usyk is good but Josh will beat him in their rematch.

This paragraph and the other quoted post plus all your other comments on other threads just prove your just one big contradiction....im sorry but he didn't just beat the champion he made the champion look average and to claim AJ can beat him easily in the rematch is a bold statement. Yes Usyk may get beat in the rematch but it won't be easy for AJ far from and you know what I'm still never going to turn around and say "oh Usyk wasnt that great actually" not many will apart from casual fans because he is an exceptional boxer with an amazing amateur pedigree, won gold in the Olympics with 335 amateur wins, he's unified the CW and stepped up to HW and after 3 fights beat the current HW champion with ease.

To say you don't crown fighters for one good win, then say Usyk is good but AJ will win the rematch to me comes across that you see AJ as one of the special few....im going to end this conversation here.

Edited to not come across offensive

 

[WklySportsMemes]

I think AJ potentially can get better still. He still has the most up side out of an aging Fury & an aging Wilder.
Is he a bust, fraud, bum? NO
Is he clearly the best like people prematurely kept saying around here? NO

Look at the loses an established Wlad & Lewis suffered before they were considered dominant. Still hope for AJ

 

[YourBoss]

Based on Ruiz’ last fight without question Usyk dominates

Pre AJ Ruiz matches up well with Usyk, fast combinations, chin and conditioning, but yeah Usyk woukd still win.

hm yeah he has good speed in his upper body, but i doubt his feet could put him in position to catch Usyk.

 

[tekkennlee]

This paragraph and the other quoted post plus all your other comments on other threads just prove your just one big contradiction....im sorry but he didn't just beat the champion he made the champion look average and to claim AJ can beat him easily in the rematch is a bold statement. Yes Usyk may get beat in the rematch but it won't be easy for AJ far from and you know what I'm still never going to turn around and say "oh Usyk wasnt that great actually" not many will apart from casual fans because he is an exceptional boxer with an amazing amateur pedigree, won gold in the Olympics with 335 amateur wins, he's unified the CW and stepped up to HW and after 3 fights beat the current HW champion with ease.

To say you don't crown fighters for one good win, then say Usyk is good but AJ will win the rematch to me comes across that you see AJ as one of the special few....im going to end this conversation here.

Edited to not come across offensive

So did Ruiz but we know what happened in their rematch, don't we ? and if Andy could beat Josh and out box him after the knock down Andy should be unstoppable according to some people who go off emotions but he struggled against Chris, let's see what happens before we start crowning certain fighters the next Jesus in boxing because this always happens, this also happened with Loma and he just got beat by a good fighter with excellent power, Loma worried to much about the counters coming back, until he also figured out smart constant pressure nullifies all those fancy quick counters, that speed reflexes coming back, he pressured Lopez backing him up firing shots and wouldn't let Lopez get set and counter punch, Lopez is a timing fighter that practices certain counters after you fire certain punches, Loma finally figured out to keep Lopez on defense backing up then he's not dangerous but he started to late.

Josh can do the exact same things to Usyk, he was doing this in certain rounds he won with pressure rights and body work hurting Usyk but he has terrible recovery and needs a couple of rounds to catch his wind, Usyk understood this and went after Josh winning more rounds, it's adjustments conditioning and the willingness to engage that will win him the rematch, otherwise Josh will lose again in the rematch.

Josh is an ordinary boxer with advantages, his enormous size power, reach and strength helps him win, once you take this away or he doesn't use them, he's just a good boxer and can be beat, Andy did this because he opened up on the inside getting close, Josh can't fight on the inside unlike Bowe who was an excellent outside and inside heavyweight, Riddick is a skilled heavyweight, Riddick had stamina and eating problems this lead to brain trauma slurred speech & slow reaction and early retirement, Lennox had skills conditioning speed, a jab, Josh doesn't have what these guys had, he's not even better than Galota who was a skilled boxer but a boneheaded boxer & foul artists when he got in trouble and was pressured.

 

[kingmob6]

So did Ruiz but we know what happened in their rematch, don't we ? and if Andy could beat Josh and out box him after the knock down Andy should be unstoppable according to some people who go off emotions but he struggled against Chris, let's see what happens before we start crowning certain fighters the next Jesus in boxing because this always happens, this also happened with Loma and he just got beat by a good fighter with excellent power, Loma worried to much about the counters coming back, until he also figured out smart constant pressure nullifies all those fancy quick counters, that speed reflexes coming back, he pressured Lopez backing him up firing shots and wouldn't let Lopez get set and counter punch, Lopez is a timing fighter that practices certain counters after you fire certain punches, Loma finally figured out to keep Lopez on defense backing up then he's not dangerous but he started to late.

Josh can do the exact same things to Usyk, he was doing this in certain rounds he won with pressure rights and body work hurting Usyk but he has terrible recovery and needs a couple of rounds to catch his wind, Usyk understood this and went after Josh winning more rounds, it's adjustments conditioning and the willingness to engage that will win him the rematch, otherwise Josh will lose again in the rematch.

Josh is an ordinary boxer with advantages, his enormous size power, reach and strength helps him win, once you take this away or he doesn't use them, he's just a good boxer and can be beat, Andy did this because he opened up on the inside getting close, Josh can't fight on the inside unlike Bowe who was an excellent outside and inside heavyweight, Riddick is a skilled heavyweight, Riddick had stamina and eating problems this lead to brain trauma slurred speech & slow reaction and early retirement, Lennox had skills conditioning speed, a jab, Josh doesn't have what these guys had, he's not even better than Galota who was a skilled boxer but a boneheaded boxer & foul artists when he got in trouble and was pressured.

You got something here....

AJ is not a bad boxer, otherwise he woudn't win the olympics and have a pretty good record. But he has limitations. He isn't an all time great. He is great for the time, which isn't that great in the ranks of HW eras. He is a great money maker though. He isn't even better than Wlad, who was a much better boxer. Both AJ & Wilder are incomplete fighters when compared to other greats. You are seeing a rise to the top of real, technical boxers now, like Fury and Usyk. Now that's a match up that can decide the crown. Seeing Usyk do this to AJ, kind of tells you how his potential fight with Fury would have gone. Tyson would have boxed his head off.

 

[stuff jones]

This thread is over 2 years late. He was battered by Andy Ruiz already. Everyone who follows boxing knows what he is: a big and strong, robotic but technically solid boxer whose bully psychological advantage has vanished.