Social How many times has socialism failed?

[djacobox372]

Socialism has been a huge success in the US. The interstate highway system, post office, k-12 education, and public libraries were all critical to the success of the US in the 20th century.

 

[djacobox372]

He brought hope and change

So did reagan...

 

[sickc0d3r]

sure, for those that generally get sick and use the doctor relatively frequently...

for those that don't?

Well, for a middle class family, premiums alone almost certainly exceed the 4k or so in taxes they'd pay (based on the example of 7.5%). Family coverage through group insurance probably averages around 6k a year. And then there's the cost to their employer, which could be considered part of a compensation package that directly affects their salary.

 

[PHATV]

It has always failed. Every time.

 

[ebe9]

Socialism has been a huge success in the US. The interstate highway system, post office, k-12 education, and public libraries were all critical to the success of the US in the 20th century.

Public education has been a sham since the 30s my friend. Generations of Americans are functionally illiterate thanks to it.

 

[AndroidRage]

sure, for those that generally get sick and use the doctor relatively frequently...

for those that don't?

Well what we should do is have people given the 1 time ever option to opt in or not. If you opt in you get insured. If you opt out, then you are just flat out refused medical insurance if you aren't insured in any way or can't afford the operation. No ER visits or ambulance rides for you.

We don't want to have to pay more because of freeloaders now do we?

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

It has always failed. Every time.

And yet it still exists today and is still triggering half this forum. So in that sense it hasnt failed.

 

[IGIT]

And has it ever succeeded on a large scale? I only ever here of it failing and I can't find a clear number of how many have failed throughout history I know of Venezuela and Cuba I think started off as socialist before they became communist

hiya BjPenn,

if you look at how well the US has done over the last century or so, it seems like socialism works ok.

i'm of course talking about our socialist programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the funding of our military. i mean, its where most of our taxes go towards, and the US is doing alright, isn't it?

- IGIT

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

About this many:

Holy fucking shit, I died. Lmao

"I'm an orthodox Jew. I do eat pork, but other than that..." Fuck I'm sure there isn't much food he's going to pass up.

That has to be a parody, right? No way is this kid legit

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Tito's Yugoslavia was one of the best IMO also
They aren't all just ridiculously bad, and it didn't help that Soviet influence permeated most movements t/o the cold war either

But they also haven't worked, for a reason.....Humans are greedy

The best countries will always have elements of capitalism blended with elements of socialism. Going pure one way or the other wont work. Its all about finding the right mix. The countries which top all the indices today are hybrid social-democracies.

They have big enough economies to generate wealth but also use elements of socialism to keep costs low and quality of life high. Murka has a big economy and lots of wealth but it also ranks with second and third world countries in many indices because it refuses to add elements of socialism even when they would improve the country, purely for ideological reasons, such as the lower costs of expanding single-payer healthcare to the poor.

Countries like Denmark have robust social welfare but also lower tax rates on businesses to make it attractive for them to set up shop. This is the best way of organization, IMO.

 

[N13]

Has anything withstood the test of time?

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

The best countries will always have elements of capitalism blended with elements of socialism. Going pure one way or the other wont work. Its all about finding the right mix. The countries which top all the indices today are hybrid social-democracies.

They have big enough economies to generate wealth but also use elements of socialism to keep costs low and quality of life high. Murka has a big economy and lots of wealth but it also ranks with second and third world countries in many indices because it refuses to add elements of socialism even when they would improve the country, purely for ideological reasons, such as the lower costs of expanding single-payer healthcare to the poor.

Countries like Denmark have robust social welfare but also lower tax rates on businesses to make it attractive for them to set up shop. This is the best way of organization, IMO.

Cost of what down? Health care, sure - overall living, no. Despite having a robust social welfare system, Denmark also has a very high cost of living for things like rent, home ownership, food, transportation -- they also rank high on household debt and lower than the US in median net wealth per adult

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Cost of what down? Health care, sure - overall living, no. Despite having a robust social welfare system, Denmark also has a very high cost of living for things like rent, home ownership, food, transportation -- they also rank high on household debt and lower than the US in median net wealth per adult

All that is offset by high quality free healthcare, and a robust education system that is managed better than the US including free college for everyone, designated free college for non-traditional students, and free job retraining.

Danes have a much higher level of education than Murkans on average and higher incomes which when free from the burden of bankrupting healthcare and education costs allow them to afford higher costs for food, shelter, and transportation.

Denmark also has a lower tax rate for businesses as well. Like I said, its all about political will. Murkans would rather pay through the nose for healthcare if they think that some poor person or minority might suffer because of it.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

All that is offset by high quality free healthcare, and a robust education system that is managed better than the US including free college for everyone, designated free college for non-traditional students, and free job retraining

How is that offsetted at all if the end result is higher cost of living, more household debt and less net wealth?

Danes have a much higher level of education than Murkans on average and higher incomes which when free from the burden of bankrupting healthcare and education costs allow them to afford higher costs for food, shelter, and transportation.

Wtf? Where did you pull that from? US post secondary graduation rates are higher than Denmarks

https://data.oecd.org/chart/5rxf

and how are they better able to afford it when their net wealth is lower and household debt is higher? That offsets median wage.

Denmark also has a lower tax rate for businesses as well. Like I said, its all about political will. Murkans would rather pay through the nose for healthcare if they think that some poor person or minority might suffer because of it.

Even still, the US systems allows for overall lower cost of living, with less debt, and higher median wealth

 

[HunterSdVa29]

The best countries will always have elements of capitalism blended with elements of socialism. Going pure one way or the other wont work. Its all about finding the right mix. The countries which top all the indices today are hybrid social-democracies.

They have big enough economies to generate wealth but also use elements of socialism to keep costs low and quality of life high. Murka has a big economy and lots of wealth but it also ranks with second and third world countries in many indices because it refuses to add elements of socialism even when they would improve the country, purely for ideological reasons, such as the lower costs of expanding single-payer healthcare to the poor.

Countries like Denmark have robust social welfare but also lower tax rates on businesses to make it attractive for them to set up shop. This is the best way of organization, IMO.

Denmark also has, IIRC, the highest personal income tax rates in the world
and 25% VAT/sales tax (that is highly egregious).
edit: my bad, I think Sweden currently has slightly higher income rates than Denmark

 

[IGIT]

How is that offsetted at all if the end result is higher cost of living, more household debt and less net wealth?

Even still, the US systems allows for overall lower cost of living, with less debt, and higher median wealth

good morning JudoThrowFiasco,

sometimes when i'm discussing welfare/SNAP payment rates of the southern states (gluttons at the Federal trough), the response i get is, "its just the blacks. if you removed the blacks, then the statistics look fine".

how would the gaudy numbers on net wealth look in the US if you removed the top 1% or even the top 10%, where almost all the net wealth is pooled?

*ponders*

i think it might be more accurate to say that the very, very, very rich have it better in the US than the wealthy Danes have it in Denmark (our wealth gap numbers don't look that great, though we do rank ahead of Uganda and Ghana and Papua New Guinea *fistbump*).

for the other 99% or so, life is better in Denmark than the US.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

good morning JudoThrowFiasco,

sometimes when i'm discussing welfare/SNAP payment rates of the southern states (gluttons at the Federal trough), the response i get is, "its just the blacks. if you removed the blacks, then the statistics look fine".

how would the gaudy numbers on net wealth look in the US if you removed the top 1% or even the top 10%, where almost all the net wealth is pooled?

*ponders*

i think it might be more accurate to say that the very, very, very rich have it better in the US than the wealthy Danes (our wealth gap numbers don't look that great, though we do rank ahead of Uganda and Ghana and Papua New Guinea) - and there are more of them in the US.

for the other 99% or so, life is better in Denmark than the US.

- IGIT

PS - Sohei's basic thesis is correct.

at any rate, the US is hardly a capitalist country. almost the entire Federal tax gathering apparatus is there to collect and dispense money for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the US Military (along with interest on the debt. we love this socialist stuff so much, we can't get enough money to pay for all of it, so we borrow!)

we're the modern day kings of socialism, lol.

- IGIT

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

Socialism has been a huge success in the US. The interstate highway system, post office, k-12 education, and public libraries were all critical to the success of the US in the 20th century.

FUCK THE HIGHWAY SYSTEM I'LL WALK.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Socialism has been a huge success in the US. The interstate highway system, post office, k-12 education, and public libraries were all critical to the success of the US in the 20th century.

You're confusing simple taxation with seizing the means of production.

It's a common mistake.

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

You're confusing simple taxation with seizing the means of production.

It's a common mistake.

That's Marxism Socialism is bigger