Social How many times has socialism failed?

[JonesBones]

Those weren't my ideas, brainiac. It was a simple recounting of history. And I don't give blanket and conclusory statements and then expect people to accept them blindly. That is why I explain the premises that lead to those conclusions. I presume my readers aren't morons like you. And, yeah, as far as audiences go, the persons who valued my post and who value my posts generally are much smarter than you.



Yeah, you won't find that statement anywhere in the post. While I do think that Leninism (the prevailing form of "attempt") is a fundamentally impossible road to classical socialism or effectuation of Marxist development (at least unless it occurs in a highly developed economy), I explicitly stated that Leninist/state capitalist systems were socialist under 2 out of the 3 prevailing definitions.

It's really weird how hostile you guys are to nuance or information generally.

I know that dummy. Hence why I didn't need to read it. Other people have studied political theory. You aren't the only one. Again, truisms by the paragraph is not information except to the stupid. You enlightened a few morons on something I knew as a teenager.

 

[cooks1]

And has it ever succeeded on a large scale? I only ever here of it failing and I can't find a clear number of how many have failed throughout history I know of Venezuela and Cuba I think started off as socialist before they became communist

Looking at socialism as a black and white matter is a futile and pointless endeavor. It's much more productive to look at it on a spectrum.

Even many of our 'Conservative' leaders have some 'socialist' ideologies. How many people do we have on the right advocating for the eradication of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security? Not many.

 

[Trotsky]

I know that dummy. Hence why I didn't need to read it. Other people have studied political theory. You aren't the only one. Again, truisms by the paragraph is not information except to the stupid. You enlightened a few morons on something I knew as a teenager.

So, I answered a question asked by the OP accurately and in detail. And your gripe is that it wasn't necessary because only morons didn't know it.

I'm sorry that the TS and so many others here and elsewhere aren't as brilliant and well-informed as you.

 

[SammyPops]

And has it ever succeeded on a large scale? I only ever here of it failing and I can't find a clear number of how many have failed throughout history I know of Venezuela and Cuba I think started off as socialist before they became communist

Its the entire western world socialistic? Taxation to redistribute wealth and pay for services such as police, medical care, food safety and so on?

 

[HunterSdVa29]

everytime, literally
there have been no successful communist or socialist ran governments, even on the local commune level, in world history

 

[Higus]

everytime, literally
there have been no successful communist or socialist ran governments, even on the local commune level, in world history

tbf, has there ever been a successful country with absolutely no social programs?

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

everytime, literally
there have been no successful communist or socialist ran governments, even on the local commune level, in world history

Anarchist Spain lasted fairly long until Franco crushed it.

 

[ebe9]

Anarchist Spain lasted fairly long until Franco crushed it.

I love Franco, huge fan of his.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Anarchist Spain lasted fairly long until Franco crushed it.

Tito's Yugoslavia was one of the best IMO also
They aren't all just ridiculously bad, and it didn't help that Soviet influence permeated most movements t/o the cold war either

But they also haven't worked, for a reason.....Humans are greedy

 

[HunterSdVa29]

tbf, has there ever been a successful country with absolutely no social programs?

no, not that I can recall
the ideal situation is obviously a mixture of capitalism ( to spur innovation, wealth creation) and socialist programs (infrastructure, military, LEO, safety net) so that it supports economic freedom and also provides a safety net for those that can't meet basic standards on their own

 

[ebe9]

Socialism makes everyone poor. People who like socialism are uncomfortable with the reality that I’m smarter than them and I can work harder and therefore create more wealth for myself. They’re just really jealous people. Sorry but I’m free to make as much money as I want. And so are you.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Even the heavier Democratic Socialism programs in Germany and Scandinavia (and thus their accompanying absurd tax rates on personal income and sales/VAT), were largely implemented after WWII during the rebuilding process, countries were devastated and a generation of people were physically/mentally scarred. For most Europeans it's all they or they're parents or even grandparents have ever known....

While I don't doubt that things like UHC and other type programs could work in the US, people WILL NOT be cool w/ saying going to Canada's 7.5% extra tax to pay for it, or the 19-24% sales tax in some European countries. It has to be phased in in increments for people not to adjust to the absurd sticker shock

 

[Possum Jenkins]

tbf, has there ever been a successful country with absolutely no social programs?

Not just that, a society with zero social programs and where literally everything is privatized hasn't ever had mass support. And no, a few thousand ancaps on the internet don't qualify. Even on a theoretical level, a capitalist society has zero appeal.

Meanwhile, societies where production is owned and controlled by the workers and where every aspect of society is democratic (aka, socialist) has had tremendous worldwide appeal. And not just among "socialist" thinkers and writers, either. Henry David Thoreau is as mainstream as apple pie and was basically a communist. John Dewey is by far the most famous American philosopher and he'd be way left of Bernie Sanders today.

Yet you don't have people endlessly asking "How many times has capitalism failed?" or "How come capitalism has never been attempted?"

Kinda shows you which way the indoctrination lies.

 

[sickc0d3r]

While I don't doubt that things like UHC and other type programs could work in the US, people WILL NOT be cool w/ saying going to Canada's 7.5% extra tax to pay for it, or the 19-24% sales tax in some European countries. It has to be phased in in increments for people not to adjust to the absurd sticker shock

Seems like being taxed a percentage of income instead of paying the fixed price of an insurance premium, plus deductible and co-pays if you actually use it, would be a sizable savings for most Americans. Especially if it is only 7.5%.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Seems like being taxed a percentage of income instead of paying the fixed price of an insurance premium, plus deductible and co-pays if you actually use it, would be a sizable savings for most Americans. Especially if it is only 7.5%.

sure, for those that generally get sick and use the doctor relatively frequently...

for those that don't?

 

[AndroidRage]

About this many:

Is that @Warlord Palis ?

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Is that @Warlord Palis ?

Actually yes it is, problem? PM if you need life tips

 

[xcvbn]

Is that @Warlord Palis ?

Looks like bd without his rascal

 

[xcvbn]

Actually yes it is, problem? PM if you need life tips

Care to expand on Hitler being a liberal socialist?

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Care to expand on Hitler being a liberal socialist?

He brought hope and change