International How does US democracy compare to the rest of world in 2025?

[Gamer2k4]

US still have democracy?

It dies the moment crooked, disgusting, repulsive things that resemble humans vote a monster to power for their own perceived benefits at the expense of immense suffering of other people.

Why does a democracy stop being a democracy just because you disagree with how the people voted?

 

[Andy Capp]

Still a democracy, but it's been backsliding for most of the 21st century. The American obsession with believing the 2A is the most important defense for democracy is one of the reasons, since it's come at the expense of ignoring other more critical factors. Freedom of speech, free press, economic inequality, etc.

Hopefully it reverses, but so far the trajectory is accelerating in the wrong direction.

Also another reason for the backsliding: Imperial wars always come home, and their impact is rarely pro-democracy.

I'd say the jury is out on that until the 2028 general election.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

It should lose its democracy status and be shifted too the oligarchy index.

 

[avenue94]

I'd say the jury is out on that until the 2028 general election.

That approach doesn't really make sense. You don't need perspective to diagnose whether a country is democratic or not. Nor do you need someone illegitimately staying in power to qualify as a non-democracy or partial one.

 

[Andy Capp]

That approach doesn't really make sense. You don't need perspective to diagnose whether a country is democratic or not. Nor do you need someone illegitimately staying in power to qualify as a non-democracy or partial one.

You misunderstand my intent. I'm not saying we need to wait until then to evaluate for ourselves whether the assessment is true. I'm saying it will be proved beyond a reasonable doubt with the 2028 election.

Edit: for the record, I don't think Trump will unlawfully remain in power after 2028. I'm not even confident he will still hold the office by then. I think the current administration will instead work to try and ensure it's all but impossible for any Democrat to win the general.

 

[Andy Capp]

I kind of think when it comes down to "You can vote for those shit cunts or you can vote for these other shit cunts" then it's not a great democracy and needs some reform to give people actual choices.

They had an actual choice. When it comes down to a black woman with a proven track record of accomplishments vs. criminal, serial adulterer, and irredeemable liar, and they choose the latter, it's obvious you've created a false equivalency; it's equally obvious democracy has shat the bed like someone dumped a Trump diaper on it. Particularly considering only 32% of the electorate voted for the Big Orange Turd.

That's not a choice between a giant douche and a shit sandwich. It's a choice between grinning while you eat the shit sandwich and doing the right thing.

 

[avenue94]

You misunderstand my intent. I'm not saying we need to wait until then to evaluate for ourselves whether the assessment is true. I'm saying it will be proved beyond a reasonable doubt with the 2028 election.

Edit: for the record, I don't think Trump will unlawfully remain in power after 2028. I'm not even confident he will still hold the office by then. I think the current administration will instead work to try and ensure it's all but impossible for any Democrat to win the general.

I see. Still, democracy is an ongoing thing and mever guaranteed. I'm my mind, it's something that should be constantly considered, not just during big election years.

Like most things, it ebbs and flows incrementally, not overnight.

 

[Andy Capp]

I see. Still, democracy is an ongoing thing and mever guaranteed. I'm my mind, it's something that should be constantly considered, not just during big election years.

Like most things, it ebbs and flows incrementally, not overnight.

In the case of the USA, the tide has already ebbed and it's not coming back in anytime soon. Convincing others of that is what's going to take time.

 

[avenue94]

In the case of the USA, the tide has already ebbed and it's not coming back in anytime soon. Convincing others of that is what's going to take time.

Yes, to the former, probably yes to the latter. But I try to not make doom and gloom predictions, at least that specifically. It's also part of a global backsliding of democracy, so can't ignore that.

I don't know if convincing others actually will do that much. Frankly, a lot of people are ok without democracies, and during dictatorships, most people just live most of their normal lives. For better or worse.

 

[Andy Capp]

Yes, to the former, probably yes to the latter. But I try to not make doom and gloom predictions, at least that specifically. It's also part of a global backsliding of democracy, so can't ignore that.

I don't know if convincing others actually will do that much. Frankly, a lot of people are ok without democracies, and during dictatorships, most people just live most of their normal lives. For better or worse.

The topic is not whether people are ok with dictatorships, but rather, whether the US has become one (or is headed in that direction, which it quite obviously is at the very minimum--"We don't care what judges say...")

 

[avenue94]

The topic is not whether people are ok with dictatorships, but rather, whether the US has become one (or is headed in that direction, which it quite obviously is at the very minimum--"We don't care what judges say...")

Whether or not they are ok with it or have a strong preference for democracy is a big influence on the original question.

Also for what it's worth I prefer the more qualitative categorization that indexes like the one in OP uses. Not binary, yes or no options. Dunno how the average person feels on it, this kind of stuff is pretty in the weeds, but unfortunately having a common agree on definition is a requirement for any discussion or armchair philosophy.

 

[Andy Capp]

Whether or not they are ok with it or have a strong preference for democracy is a big influence on the original question.

Also for what it's worth I prefer the more qualitative categorization that indexes like the one in OP uses. Not binary, yes or no options. Dunno how the average person feels on it, this kind of stuff is pretty in the weeds, but unfortunately having a common agree on definition is a requirement for any discussion or armchair philosophy.

Fair enough. I concluded democracy in America died when Trump managed to evade prosecution for the worst of his crimes by just running for President. Obviously, YMMV.

 

[avenue94]

Fair enough. I concluded democracy in America died when Trump managed to evade prosecution for the worst of his crimes by just running for President. Obviously, YMMV.

A big hit but hardly died. Like I said it's important to have a clear definition of democracy. And I can't think of any where thebUS has crossed over into non democracy yet. Backslid sure though

 

[Satsui Ryu]

I don't think democracy is prioritized as much as people would like to believe. It seems ideology cames way before it. People seem to be okay with things that are against our democratic protocols as long as they serve a specific ideological purpose and are not too egregious. Problem is those little precedence here and there add up. It is kind of like the frog in boiling water analogy.

I know this is a joke. But so many people say stuff like this, then you see they cannot assess anything outside of the context of left/right politics or are just complete voids of objectivity that you can't help but think we get the politicians we deserve.

 

[krelianx]

There is no democracy in the U.S.

Anyone who believes otherwise is either woefully naive, or doesn't understand what democracy is.

The U.S. is and has been for a long time an aristocratic plutocracy, with increasing technofeudalist tendencies.

 

[Andy Capp]

A big hit but hardly died. Like I said it's important to have a clear definition of democracy. And I can't think of any where thebUS has crossed over into non democracy yet. Backslid sure though

Are you familiar with the term existence theorem?

 

[RoastBeast]

The US is a democratic Republic. Not a democracy.

 

[avenue94]

Are you familiar with the term existence theorem?

Not particularly.

The US is a democratic Republic. Not a democracy.

It's a democracy and a republic. Those terms are not mutually exclusive, which you would know if you were familiar with them.

 

[RoastBeast]

Not particularly.

It's a democracy and a republic. Those terms are not mutually exclusive, which you would know if you were familiar with them.

I'm very familiar with them. I'm just laughing at you guys that have been harping on democracy dying after staying silent when the media and large corporations like Google were manipulating the 2020 election in favor of your party.

Don't mind me. Just pointing out the blatant hypocrisy again.

 

[Kassitus]

It should lose its democracy status and be shifted too the oligarchy index.

A shift would imply it's new. It's been this way since the beginning. It wasn't long after the French revolution that French intellectuals noticed they have replaced the forthright rule of the king with the shadow rule of the wealthy.