How did Shogun solve Machida's style?

[stangbanger]

I could say,he never really solved it, but I don't want to start anything. He fought a machida who was under alot of pressure to put on exciting fights, at the time. I have never seen Machida engage that much. I would also add that had shogun been given a normal chin he would never beat lyoto ever. I might add 2nd fight was a fluke imho. Had machida aimed his punch better he would have never been hit by that. He was over agressive, and that is not his style.

In both of these gifs you can see that Jones and Shogun both clearly anticipated the rear hand straight from Machida. Both of those strikes were the beginning of the end as well (the combination of that punch and the elbows on the ground shortly after definitely changed Machida's night). I'd say that's the definition of figuring someone out. Machida's a great fighter, and he definitely wrecks most of the division, but if he doesn't make some serious changes he won't ever see that belt again.

 

[JoseAldoKillaBe]

Machida did exactly the same thing he did 20seconds before. Shogun timed it perfectly and landed a nice shot.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

I disagree, Shogun did close the distance into the clinch a few times but really I think his sucess was based on not playing Machida's game by trying to chase him down standing.

He simpley had Lyoto outgunned at distance when it came to kicks and that ultimately forced Machida to come forward where he was open to counters.

I'll have to catch it again but I felt like Shogun did a much better job of pushing the pace than others have done in the past. Most guys just stand at distance tentatively. Bader really fell into that trap, but Rashad and Randy did as well only landing 5 total strikes (each). Wow, I just was looking at fightmetric out of curiosity, and Shogun outstruck Machida 82-39 in their first fight. That's even worse than I remember (and I already thought it was a bad decision).

 

[bob bintdeck]

Machida telegraphed the knee coming in. Shogun countered.

Also, Shogun's chin allows him to coming forward with less worry and more power.

I think Machida wins the trilogy.

with a decision.

 

[HC Daniel]

Wow, a lot of people are trying to find a formula between the three fights Machida lost (and by that, I mean Shogun 1 and 2 and Jones). It doesn't exist. It was all done differently:

1- Machida v Shogun I was the only time you could say Machida lost via a calculated formula. Shogun got Machida backpedling, purposefully planted himself after every punch and attacked Machida's body and legs with powerful kicks that only Shogun has in the UFC LHW division. He also ate a lot of Machida counters because his chin could withstand it. Shogun won the fight without really using his hands at all--- it was all kicks and dirty clinch work-- he never tried to chase Lyoto down for a KO, he fought Lyoto at Lyoto's range and won a 3-2 decision from it (well, should have won a 3-2 decision).

2- Machida vs Shogun II was totally different. Machida knew Shogun's camp was training the exact same way (bringing Shotokan and other Karate guys, evaluating them, and writing up strategies) and so he trained to go ridiculous hard on Shogun. Which was working, until he got knocked the hell out when the MMA gods realized machida was dumb enough to try and get into a war with Shogun

3- Machida vs Jones was also different. Jones tagged Machida a total of one time, Machida tagged Jones a total of one time. Then Jones took Machida down and rained down 20 elbows on Machida's head. That really was the end of the fight right there. Jones has been the only person to take Machida down and keep him down.


So, can Hendo mimic any of these strategies? He really can't use strategy one... Hendo can only fight in punching range. He can't use strategy three, there's no way he can take Machida down. He can obviously win with strategy two but that involves Machida fighting the absolute wrong way and that certainly isn't going to happen.

So, for Hendo to win, he has to find his own formula. Looking into the past can give hints, but it would be a very bad idea to mimic.

What fight were you watching?, Jones couldnt keep Lyoto down and he landed one elbow in the entire fight, im so confused right now.

 

[TheKoreanZombie]

OR:

That guy moves almost like Machida, not bad.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

I think Machida is the worst guy I've seen when it comes to someone pressuring him and I see Hendo being able to do the same thing Rua did.

CroCop is pretty bad too.

 

[L0ki]

By finally getting healthy and training properly.

Sucks that he finally gets better, only to blow his knee out while winning the belt.

 

[phoenixikki]

Everyone has a strategy, until they get hit in the face.

 

[groo]

Split off from the other Shogun thread, I'm thinking back over his UFC career, and his dissection of Machida is one of the most impressive things I've seen.

So how did he do that? Did TheStrikingGuy cover this?

When I first watched Machida, I guessed that you had to be able to kick to damage him, since Machida fought an extra half-step away and was always on his back foot on top of it. And Shogun did that in the first fight and had great success, but then the second fight he just straight knocked Machida the **** out.

After the fight, all I remember him saying was "this time I worked on my hands." It seems like no one else before or since has been able to do that to Lyoto, so it couldn't have been simple, could it?

Does anyone have any other observations on this?

He listened to the advice of that one DRUNK guy in the crowd who is at EVERY UFC event in the history of the UFC and has been yelling his advice at the fighters all of these years.....




"PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE!!!!!!"

 

[IIIIIIII]

Pressure/moving forward.

Every fighter that has ever pressured Machida has tagged him

If you rush forward on Machida, he back peddles with his hands down. The fighter usually stops at that point. Shogon chased down and hit him every time.

I think Machida is the worst guy I've seen when it comes to someone pressuring him and I see Hendo being able to do the same thing Rua did.

good post.

 

[Tonyrw22]

So if he wouldn't have lost, he would have won?

Machida wasn't aggressive, Shogun was MORE aggressive (than the first fight) and forced the exchanges.

Some people act like Machida turned into Super Aggro Man for the second fight. He was backing up the entire time just like the first fight. Machida went first a grand total of ONCE in the 2nd fight

you can like it or not but its a fact Machida simply didn't use his style in the second shogun fight.. he was way to reckless and didn't use his distance game well.
you win a fight and everybody says you lost. it fucked Machida up mentally..thats why he fought out of character. it happens all the time same thing with Lesnar after he got beat up by Cain.. Lesnar vs Overeem was a joke.. it was the biggest mistimed fight ever and would have been much more competive if it happened the fight before Lesnar got destroyed by Cain. He might have tried to do use his style :wrestling.

 

[tkotom]

He punched him in the face.

 

[MightyMorphing]

Shogun bullied Machida and didn't care about getting punched in the face in order to give one back. Punch vs Punch eventually became Chin vs Chin and Shogun doesn't lose that game.

 

[KarateStylist]

Machida leaves his leg wide open with his stance and he also sticks his chin up and drops his hand when he throws a straight.

^^^ I do this all the time.... so what?

Wow, a lot of people are trying to find a formula between the three fights Machida lost (and by that, I mean Shogun 1 and 2 and Jones). It doesn't exist. It was all done differently:............
..................QuoteChop.......................
..................So, for Hendo to win, he has to find his own formula. Looking into the past can give hints, but it would be a very bad idea to mimic.

^^^ TSG "strikes" again.......

In both of these gifs you can see that Jones and Shogun both clearly anticipated the rear hand straight from Machida. Both of those strikes were the beginning of the end as well (the combination of that punch and the elbows on the ground shortly after definitely changed Machida's night). I'd say that's the definition of figuring someone out. Machida's a great fighter, and he definitely wrecks most of the division, but if he doesn't make some serious changes he won't ever see that belt again.

^^^ AHHHH, neither of these punches by Machida were "STRAIGHT" PUNCHES....

^^^ More accurately, Reverse 'Cross' Punch / Miss {& AND &} Reverse 'Cross' Punch / Miss. ****

^^^ This is what happens when you mix boxing & karate = MMA-----------replacing mentality with physicality........

KarateStylist

**** In Shotokan karate grading, GRADE = F-

 

[Emjay]

you can like it or not but its a fact Machida simply didn't use his style in the second shogun fight.. he was way to reckless and didn't use his distance game well.
you win a fight and everybody says you lost. it fucked Machida up mentally..thats why he fought out of character...

He fought in the exact same manner. Shogun just increased the pressure.

And maybe he "didn't use his distance game well" because ... wait for it ... Shogun didn't allow him to use his distance game well.

Give Shogun some credit here

 

[Emjay]

^^^ AHHHH, neither of these punches by Machida were "STRAIGHT" PUNCHES....

^^^ More accurately, reverse 'cross' punch / miss & AND & reverse 'cross' punch / miss.

^^^ This is what happens when you mix boxing & karate = MMA-----------replacing mentality with physicality........

KarateStylist

The one against Jones has more of a hooking motion to it. Is that still considered a cross in Karate?

 

[KarateStylist]

The one against Jones has more of a hooking motion to it. Is that still considered a cross in Karate?

^^^ That's a good question.... but only one of my critics has ever beat me in sparring....
^^^ Why don't you assume / absorb some of the intelligent precision that SINISTER projects all over this forum.... & answer again in a more acknowledging manner of the value of my contribution...?
^^^ Missing the Forest for the Trees.... you're probably insightful on the identity of Machida's punch.... but you're in the trees when it's the Forest that determines the winning strategy....

KarateStylist

 

[Emjay]

^^^ That's a good question.... but only one of my critics has ever beat me in sparring....
^^^ Why don't you assume / absorb some of the intelligent precision that SINISTER projects all over this forum.... & answer again in a more acknowledging manner of the value of my contribution...?
^^^ Missing the Forest for the Trees.... you're probably insightful on the identity of Machida's punch.... but you're in the trees when it's the Forest that determines the winning strategy....

KarateStylist

Dude I just asked a question

 

[KarateStylist]

That guy moves almost like Machida, not bad.

^^^ That karate champion Rua brought into train for against Lyoto, that was brilliant....
^^^ This approach would never work against traditional karate fighter, also I note Rua's karate sparring partner was smaller than he was....
^^^ I don't agree with alot of contact sparring type training,,,, nevertheless.... Shogun's training was expertly done in this venue and was 100% successful against Lyoto in terms of Rua walking in there with a viable, determinative strategy...

Double, Triple hats off to Shogun Rua & training camp for this superbly executed training preparation for the highly-problematic Lyoto Machida....

KarateStylist