How come ever since Anderson Silva left

Pancake Sprawl said:
i think it's more because he was highlight reeling a ton of dudes so casually. Adesanya has never had that kind of non-chalant casualness to him as Anderson did. because of that it really enhances Anderson's status. every Adesanya stoppage is like an expected stoppage. a lot of Anderson's stoppages look like some cartoonish type shit.
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Anderson was the first big time fighter that people were like

"I didn't think you could do that shit in a fight. I thought that was just for movies."

Standing RIGHT in front of ELITE top 5 MMA fighters in the world, champions, and putting his hands down while they throw combinations, punches & kicks and nothing touched him and he would throw one counter and they fell like a movie bad guy.

Shit was crazy.

What he did to Rich Franklin, Forrest, Okami, Marquardt...

literally "Flawless performance" against Leben 100% hit rate and untouched as I recall. In a #1 contender fight against a guy on a 5 fight ufc win streak.

Subs Hendo and Lutter.
Both accomplished grapplers.
An Olympian and the Michael Jordan of BJJ.

Subbed chael
.... oh wait. Everybody did that.
 
Truth is fighters are just getting better from top to bottom and a lot better depth than ever before. The quality of fighter at ranking 15 today was probably top 5 material just 12 to 15 years ago. Where today that fighter may or may not ever even get into the top 10. All sports evolve and so does the athlete themselves.

For example, look at something as simple on the surface as a field goal kicker in the NFL. Today you must be hitting 80% plus of all your field goals to even be on team and you better be able to boot 50+ yard field goals and decent percentage on top of that. 50 years ago an elite kicker was 70-80% average and many well under 70%, teams rarely kicked field goals of more than 45 yds back then. Now you see 45 yds fields goals kicked in every game. Nothing has really changed beyond better football itself today and the real key is the athlete as kicker is just much much much better.

The gap in fighting is just much closer today than it ever was. Sure you can still find a lot of success being an ace in one art form but to really be great you got to be very well rounded overall.
 
Jarvan said:
So jack Johnson, sugar ray Robinson, Jake lamotta don't matter because their competition doesn't compare to today's?

Found a fuckin retard
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these people who argue competition level as a reason why the old guys aren't great don't realize there will NEVER be a GOAT who isn't the current active fighter in their prime following this logic. why? because the newer generations will always think their current crop are the evolution of the game, hence every new generation of fighters are "better" than the last. i realized this isn't true a long time ago as a kid when i used follow boxing much more closely. consuming as much film as i could on older boxers especially in the HW division, i realized my generation of boxers Klitschko, Tyson, Lennox, weren't necessarily more skilled than the older generations they were just bigger and even things i saw the older generations do were no longer being done by my generation's boxers. skills were being lost, tactics and styles were being forgotten.

i realized this wasn't true even more when i watched the HW division turn into what it is now in MMA compared to what it was in the early 2000s-2010s. Cain, JDS, and Stipe are the last generation of real well rounded MMA HWs. now the HWs have less skills, more specialization, and an increase in size of the competitors. the funny thing is, even the specialists back in the day were better. Cro Cop's TDD is like 100 levels above what Gane has shown. Fedor and Cain are much more fluid transitioning from striking to grappling to striking than anyone active today. even Tom Aspinall hasn't shown that kind of fluidity in his game and he's the most well rounded HW active today.

i don't even know why they're comparing Anderson's competition to Adesanya's when they literally fought each other. Anderson looked better than the majority of guys who fought Adesanya up until then and he was way passed his prime and already losing multiple fights. another thing that you never see elite fighters do now a days, is fight as much as guys like Anderson did. he won 17 fights in a row in a 6 year period. that's unheard of today. to get 17 fights out of someone now a days would take just as many years.
 
Jarvan said:
So jack Johnson, sugar ray Robinson, Jake lamotta don't matter because their competition doesn't compare to today's?

Found a fuckin retard
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it’s not even that. he’s also just wrong. finishing prime dan henderson is a better win than anything adesanya has ever done, to this day. adesanya’s best win is whittaker, who’s a very good MW, probably top ten all time, but hendo’s top ten all time p4p, again, to this day. throwing in anderson’s wins against maia, marquardt, franklin, sonnen, forrest, vitor, etc. is just icing on the cake. outside of maybe sonnen, those wins stack up against any of izzy’s.
 
Some of what you’re saying can be explained by just having different divisional goats. No shade towards Khabib but if there had been a LW GSP or Silva he wouldn’t be considered the greatest LW of all time.

As for Usman, I don’t think anyone who knows what they’re talking about puts him over GSP in terms of all time greatness.
 
octagonation said:
I don't see Leon putting together that many wins. I think he may get past Colby and thats about it. He losses to Shavkat, Wonderboy or belel styles make fights
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Wonderboy becoming champ would be wild and unexpected
 
jeff7b9 said:
I see people play the quality of competition card here a lot.

Like... is anyone saying Aldo didn't have quality wins??! WTF?

Mendes 2x
Frankie 2x
Prime Faber
Prime Mike Thomas Brown
Prime KZ
Ricardo Lamas
Kenny Florian
Manny Gamburyan


Even the double champ thing. Frankie was 155 champ while Aldo was champ and Aldo dominated him TWICE. The truth is Aldo isn't a double champ because he didn't speak english. That's why Aldo who won 11 title fights (wec+ufc) was told he had to vacate to challenge for a 2nd belt and Conor moved up without defending and Volk is getting his 2nd chance at CC status.

If Aldo got Conor treatment he could have been triple champ 135, 145, 155.

You aren't gonna tell me he wouldn't be favored over Barao. I think he would fuck up Cruz, TJ at that time would have been interesting. I'd take him over Cody (I don't know if they overlapped)

Volk is a stud. I ain't taking nothing away from him, just pointing out people really overlook what Aldo accomplished.
A decade undefeated. 11 title fight wins. Staying healthy enough. Still winning when he couldn't use his kicks or knees anymore, that was his best weapon and he didn't have it for his last 6 or so title fights. Aldo is a fucking beast.
------

** Volk beat prime Max. 3x
Credit where credit is due.

He beat older Aldo head to head, and Chad.
He has got wins, and a very solid resume.

I just don't like the idea that Aldo DOESNT.
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Aldo certainly has great wins, he is in my all time top 5, just saying that Volk is catching up to him, I agree that Aldo could of been the 155 champ, and for the record his first fight with Frankie was very close, I wouldn't say he dominated him, Aldo was famous for doing well in the first 3 rounds then coasting after that and I highly doubt he would of been a triple champ, in that time, he had a hard time making 145 alone
 
CashMoney1991 said:
Aldo certainly has great wins, he is in my all time top 5, just saying that Volk is catching up to him, I agree that Aldo could of been the 155 champ, and for the record his first fight with Frankie was very close, I wouldn't say he dominated him, Aldo was famous for doing well in the first 3 rounds then coasting after that and I highly doubt he would of been a triple champ, in that time, he had a hard time making 145 alone
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If he had a hard time making 145 is because he didnt care about nutrition at all, otherwise would not be able to consistently make 135 already in his 30s
 
markys00 said:
Wow people are stupid
Jones and Silva are both dqd from GOAT conversation. Also, Silva has WAYYYYY too many losses to be called goat
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its even more stupid if your a full grown man
who believes that your fav fighter is natural
 
pankrat said:
If he had a hard time making 145 is because he didnt care about nutrition at all, otherwise would not be able to consistently make 135 already in his 30s
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If I recall correctly, Aldo has had some hard weight cuts at 145 in the past, most notably in the hominick fight
 
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