Opinion how are unions not a right wing thing?

[irish_thug]

Right wing union boss right here.

 

[PhitePhan]

I'm in a large union. It's next to impossible to fire the laziest motherfuckers.

This is my buddies take too. He also says there's a ton of favoritism when determining promotions...

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

I don't get that thread. Unions are left wing because they fight for greater equality, that is the definition of the stuff. Most union leaders and more hardcore members were/are democrats in the US.
The right and the republican party were against unions because they are the party of businessmen and hierarchy.
The confusion probably arises because people are hardly completely right wing or completely left wing. Many union guys are for redistribution of wealth and worker rights but they can also be religious and nationalistic.
Religion and nationalism are two right wing positions, nationalism is a form of hierarchy, it basically says that citizens of a country are above foreigners and migrants. Ethnic nationalism is even more right wing, because you need to be a citizen (soil) and be genetically related to other citizens (blood).
These topics weren't really up for debate in the past. In the 19th century or first half of the 20th century nobody would go around preaching atheism or strongly defending the right of muslims to migrate to the US or Europe. A god fearing white nationalist could fit right in a union that defended the rights of others like him.
Things changed. People get confused. Democrats now defend some social ideas that are antithetical to many working class men. The party of the businessmen sensed the blood in the water and became the party of "real" America, and sold the idea to working class whites that by cutting taxes they would get a pay raise, but even if they didn't at least they would not deal with people that defend affirmative right, the kind of policy that will possibly keep their children out of a good college and give it to a black or immigrant. Or they say they will ban abortion because Christians don't like that.
Of course, it's all rhetoric, the republican party has never helped white working class people or even acted for their more sinister desires like building a giant wall.
The pay raises, of course, were a scam but abortion is still there too, migrants are still crossing the border and there is no wall.
The GOP spent all their energy to pass a tax cut.

 

[VivaRevolution]

The only thing I can think of is the teacher's union makes it really hard to get rid of bad teachers. Anecdotal but the school district I went to had this problem when I was there. Teacher's that didn't seem to give a shit couldn't be fired cause they had been there long enough so to speak.


I don't think I would get higher wages without one... I just wish I had a smaller union or that unions were made up of people that had WORKED THE JOB they represent. My union rep in the union office I had to explain what my day to day job was when I wanted to file a complaint.

I just want them to be better... as it stands for the BIG ones like the Teamsters... they're like a giant company now. I've worked at the same place for 5 years and have had my union rep change like 3 times now.

The only example I can think of is my union out here has FORCED the county to do promotions on a "time in job/employment" basis. Meaning the person in the office for 5.5 years will get promoted before the person with just 5 years experience even if the person with 5 years experience is the better employee and can do the job. The Salt Lake job I applied for straight up told me "you're represented but if you're here 6 months and a promotion opportunity is open and we think you'd fit it better than the person here for 10 years you're getting the promotion"

My union seems perfectly fine with the status quo as is... and it's not like I live in an anti-union area. I live in fucking NW Washington.

Learn your collective bargaining agreement front and back, and start offering to act as a steward.

Set yourself up to become a rep yourself, or even run for your local presidency.

Yeah, it will take a few years work, but you could be president of your local.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I'm in a large union. It's next to impossible to fire the laziest motherfuckers.

Where I work, they used to call it the Lazy B. I am part of a very large union, and within our union, our local is very powerful.

When the corporation decided to focus on shifting the culture, and making people work, they didn't have to change the contract. They just forced their 1st level managers to start doing their job.

It amazes me that anyone blames workers for a work environment, when that is not their job to manage. If you have people walking around not working, that is a failure of management not doing their job, not the union doing it too well.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Most "right wing" voters don't even support the majority of Republican policies. If the left wing was moderate, we would have a completely blue government, but the left wing has gone insane. This is why I stay home every election and do better things with my time.

Define moderate for me.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I can’t speak for the right but unions are problematic for a number of reasons. For one, they often breed corruption and have frequently been overrun with criminality. They are also often unnecessarily adversarial and self defeating. Take the bakers union driving hostess out of business then across the border as just one example of this. Finally, they are often piss poor at serving the interests of many of their members. I used to be an AGMA member and my take away was that I was required to pay them a lot of money for the privilege of having them negotiate rules that protected senior members from more qualified younger members like myself. In the world of public education union negotiated mandatory pay schedules virtually prevent schools from hiring teachers with advanced/terminal degrees. Seasoned professional educators often aren’t even granted an interview while a recent grad with no-experience can get hired almost anywhere. There are plenty of reasons to dislike unions that have nothing to do with one’s commitment to lifting the working class.

Hostess was such bullshit. That company was ran into the ground and gutted from the top down.

It's like people blaming auto unions because management started making shit cars to increase profit margins.

 

[IGIT]

Our tax dollars go towards giving government workers benefits that very few privately employed citizens receive.

I find it offensive and have wondered why more people don't complain about it.

hi there Mr. HomeCheese,

i find it funny and peculiar (but not offensive) that folks kvetch about stuff like this. if you are so envious of government benefits...

...then go work for the government. its not hard at all to get started.

are you a lib?

you sound like some lib who hates the wealthy.

great to meet you!

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

Define moderate for me.

ahoy VivaRevolution,

i'd like to participate.

moderate is Kirsten Gillibrand.

*hands Viva a bucket*

i believe you'll be needing this.

- IGIT

 

[AndroidRage]

they're an embodiment of a group that is fighting for families to have the means to provide.
They stand up for ''real'' america, the people who work blue collar jobs at factories.
Busting unions has led to decrease in benefits, job stability and wage losses. All these factors hinder the chances people have at taking care of a family, the cornerstone of most of the rights values.
I think if many candidates came out as pro union they could even sway a lot of voters. . .

has it always been this way? When did the right start union busting? Was it with R.R?

Those are the values the right claim to have. In reality they have no values and do the most to bust up unions for thier donor class.

 

[VivaRevolution]

ahoy VivaRevolution,

i'd like to participate.

moderate is Kirsten Gillibrand.

*hands Viva a bucket*

i believe you'll be needing this.

- IGIT

I feel like allot of people think the Center for American Progress is moderate. I think they are radical corporatists.

 

[IGIT]

I feel like allot of people think the Center for American Progress is moderate. I think they are radical corporatists.

hello VivaRevolution,

i prefer them over the Heritage Foundation and i don't see them as "radical" anything, but yeah.

i am a little leery of them.

- IGIT

 

[WarDosAnjos]

Right wing means you only care about the rich

 

[no fat chicks]

i mean this with no malice against republicans, but they've done a masterful job at convincing union voters and union states to vote against their interest. part of it is democrats essentially abandoned unions as a primary focus of their policies and allowed corporations to run fleeing to third world countries for cheap labor without any consequences. no tariffs, no tax increases, nothing.

so why wouldn't a corporation do that? morality and business ethics has zero relevancy when corporations make these decisions. they'll happily do anything to increase profit margins. and we watched all this happen for decades and did nothing. so now people feel broken and alone, and republicans saw this vulnerability. they filled that "explain this for me why my life is shit and there's no work" void with pointing at illegal immigrants (who have absolutely nothing to do with the state of their job issues). but when people are angry, distraught and desperate, yea, they don't always make rational decisions.

but the republican goal is to dismantle unions. already, the supreme court started that snowball with the janus v. afscme case where you can't be compelled to pay union dues for free speech reservations. with time, they'll be completely dismantled or weakened to such a point that they are no longer relevant in modern day politics, and that's going to reshape the entire political landscape.

no unions means lower wages, less benefits. it means more job insecurity and less savings. it means newer generations of people will be worse off than their parents generation. and somehow, republicans convinced people in union states that despite all these outcomes, they are the ones they should vote for. so yea, we are heading towards a more dystopian future where the rich rule everything and the poor grovel to get by. which, in actuality, has been the norm of human existence. a rich and vibrant middle class is an anomaly that results when bargaining power shifts tremendously, like post ww2 or after the bubonic plague.

that's where we are heading. to avoid it, you need a progressive candidate like bernie who may or may not correct that path. but it requires government intervention and regulation, which has many issues and problems itself. because it's not as though bureaucracy is some magical and efficient creature. but it's the only tools available to artificially maintain a middle class. a free market approach simply doesn't, it naturally gravitates and shifts wealth and power to the top. it's why we have bad education, bad health care, bad consumer products, high rent, everything. greed is king, and greed is unsustainable and pretty morally repugnant when society revolves around it. but it's a system where the wealthy can maintain power and control because it's that inherently unfair of a system.

so if unions matter to you, and the health and overall well being of lower and middle class people matter to you, you simply have no choice but to vote democrat. even that won't guarantee you good results, but it is better than a republican. but if you want a free for all society and people are eating at each other, republicans will be happy to gift you that world. it'll be a brutal one, but obviously some people who post here salivate at the thought of that opportunity.

 

[Chappi]

The right wing has always been against all forms of equality for other groups ( minorities).
Of course they are not happy with better pay and jobprotection for workers.
Republicans are there for you, but only if you are an old rich white guy.
If you are not, you are voting against your own interests if you vote republican.
Unless you want to keep others from gaining the same rights you have, then it might be the party for you after all.

 

[phipps66]

Right wing union boss right here.

Cop? Firefighter? or Tradesmen?

My money is on ironworker or pipefitter!

 

[bobgeese]

Mostly because they take your money, and hand it to democrat politicians.

At least here.

 

[bobgeese]

The right wing has always been against all forms of equality for other groups ( minorities).
Of course they are not happy with better pay and jobprotection for workers.
Republicans are there for you, but only if you are an old rich white guy.
If you are not, you are voting against your own interests if you vote republican.
Unless you want to keep others from gaining the same rights you have, then it might be the party for you after all.

 

[AndroidRage]

Mostly because they take your money, and hand it to democrat politicians.

At least here.

I guess instead they should hand it to the GOP who are constantly trying to kill Unions.

 

[Higus]

Hostess was such bullshit. That company was ran into the ground and gutted from the top down.

When someone complains about Unions ruining Hostess, ask them about the last time they bought a box of Twinkies