Holly Holm lost because she doesn't have a jab

[Deleted member 196663]

Yeah I'm starting to believe it's a Greg Jackson thing, Condit does the same.

Have you heard of that dude Tim Ferris?

In 1999, sometime after quitting my second unfulfilling job and eating peanut-butter sandwiches for comfort, I won the gold medal at the Chinese Kickboxing National Championships.

It wasn’t because I was good at punching and kicking. God forbid. That seemed a bit dangerous, considering I did it on a dare and had four weeks of preparation. Besides, I have a watermelon head–it’s a big target.

I won by reading the rules and looking for loopholes, of which there were two:

1. Weigh-ins were the day prior to competition: Using dehydration techniques I now teach to elite powerlifters, I lost 28 pounds in 18 hours, weighed in at 165 pounds, and then hyperhydrated back to 193 pounds*. It’s hard to fight someone from three weight classes above you. Poor little guys.

2. There was a technicality in the fine print: If one combatant fell off the elevated platform three times in a single round, his opponent won by default. I decided to use this technicality as my single technique and just push people off. As you might imagine, this did not make the judges the happiest Chinese I’ve ever seen.

The result? I won all my matches by technical knock-out (TKO) and went home national champion, something 99% of those with 5-10 years of experience had been unable to do.

I get the feeling that Greg Jackson is doing kind of the same thing, except not to the level this douchebag snake oil salesman. He does good interviews, though.

 

[platypus44]

I agree that the southpaw thing was a big deal. She is not used to having an opponent's right hand be that far forward and that was a factor in her getting repeatedly blasted with right hooks. A right jab would have helped Holly a lot.
Another big factor is that Holly is terrified of takedowns and therefore tries to avoid clinches. This means she can't lean in enough to put mustard on her punches. She was striking and kicking from too far out (especially after having a kick lead to a takedown) and repeatedly falling short.
She should have been more willing to get into clinches and risk takedowns late in each round and more willing to close distance and mix it up. If she had been able to land several good combinations, it would have shook Shevchenko up. Late in the round, a takedown isn't the end of the world. Shevchenko does't seem to have a strong submission game.

 

[MMAAAM]

Nah she isn't, she's just a defensive fighter. If Nate fought the male equivalent of Val he'd get his shit pushed in and probably get finished. There's more to boxing than just "hands".

Oh I get it now. You're a Rousey fan so you have to claim Holly is this amazing boxer otherwise your idol looks bad. I get it now.

 

[NaughtyBoy]

She doesn't care.

That's nice. We still love Holly ...

 

[NaughtyBoy]

I feel like she lost because she has very poor MMA skills. This was her chance to take somebody down and submit them. She should have learned something down at Jackson Wink in all this time?!?!?!

I think you really don't know shit about what you're saying.

 

[King of Fists]

You can't compare women's boxing to men's since the depth is extremely shallow. Nate is a far better boxer than Holly.

So true.

"A male boxer of Holly's caliber," that's like half the UFC roster.

 

[adnatal]

Only if Holly had some experience in boxing she would learn how to jab.

But women's combat sports are just as good as mens?!?!

 

[Tormund]

Oh I get it now. You're a Rousey fan so you have to claim Holly is this amazing boxer otherwise your idol looks bad. I get it now.

No, stop projecting your own situation on to me. You're the one who's denying it because Nate cracked McTapper and made him start panic wrestling. Where are Nates boxing world titles? He doesn't have any because you can't win a boxing world title if the only thing you know is a 1-2.

 

[Mixed]

Holly's striking isn't near the best in MMA, but at the same time it's more than good enough. Her problem is she doesn't realize that this isn't a kickboxing bout, and sprawl and brawl isn't enough to get it done these days. Wresting needs to be a part of anybody's gameplan; it's stupid to do otherwise.

For example, Valentina even mixed in takedowns effectively which opened things up for her. Holly is probably one of the strongest girls at 135 yet she doesn't use her physicality and wrestling.

And while she needs to wrestle, the problem is she is absolutely terrible on the ground. She has no idea what she is doing when it hits the ground. She probably has cues in her head of things to do in certain situations, but she doesn't understand grappling at all.

So basically her main problem is the ground game. Because she is so bad on the ground, she doesn't even think to use her wrestling, which in turn makes her a completely one-dimensional fighter. Probably one of the most one-dimensional fighters in MMA. Funny how Ronda has been considered a one trick pony when Holly is the exact same.

 

[Lanx]

Holly is a southpaw who is used to fighting orthodox fighters.

Holly's boxing career is 25% southpaw, all of whom she beat, mostly doing the cardio bunny dance of 10 rounds, all the guys sparr w/ Holly specifically cuz she's a rare southpaw at Jackson/Winks as well.

 

[Siesta]

Holly lost cause, she couldn't make any infight adjustments. Respect to Valentina, she had Holly's movement down.

 

[Aluminati]

Holm has a jab, she just has no idea how to lead the dance and measure distance with it. People really REALLY need to learn how a counter-striker works.

It's like no one watched the Diaz's lead/press AND counter-strike.
They are used to getting people to moving backwards and biting on whatever you want to call their pitter patter (slaps/jabs).
Then they counter and swarm. This should have been Holly's approach. At distance, she was clearly outmatched, despite the reach and height difference. Physically, the obvious difference in reaction time and speed was huge, as Valentina ignored her feints, routinely beat her to the punch, and was clearly the better defensive fighter (check the missed strikes).

I do not have the technical knowledge to comment much, and need to rewatch with a critical eye...but I was indeed wondering throughout the fight "where is her jab?"

Holly also appeared physically stronger in being able to control Valentina against the cage, yet i don't recall any sustained effort to put a muay thai fighter on her back...why not?

It was also strange to see such little change in gameplan during the fight.

There was nothing outside of grinding Valentina in the clinch, or taking her down, that Holly could have done to change her approach. It was clear to me, after watching Holm get worked by Meisha on the ground, that she is uncomfortable there. Valentina did not at all seem to be fazed by being there, as she trains BJJ (purple belt), and has a black belt in Judo, compared to Holm. IMO, the danger of the takedown/submission pretty much negated any chance that Holly would try to take it to the clinch. She tried leg kicks, that got her tripped and slammed to the mat. She tried the jab, that got her a hook and a leg kick. Valentina was clearly the quicker and more powerful striker with her hands and kicks. Holm and Jackson clearly thought they could attack and win, and they were at least 80% incorrect (it worked in the first).

Valentina refused to fight in the pocket, which made Holly a sitting duck on the way in. She was missing, getting countered, and quite frankly, getting embarrassed at every distance on the feet in the last 3 rounds. Valentina was too crafty with her angles and footwork to let her inside, displayed great patience by sticking to what worked, and was humble enough to avoid becoming overconfident after being well ahead on everyone's scorecards.

Holm said it best. She knew what she was in for, she thought they could handle it, and they were wrong.
Whose fault that is doesn't really matter, or take away from the awesome technical display of elite counter-striking we all just witnessed. And wow, not to take another shot at Holm, but she should take a page out of Nune's book on how to duck a difficult matchup.

 

[NinjaNiK]

Holly was unable to get the jab going and didn't feint the jab properly (her feints are horrible) in fact she didn't even try, she was trying to land some of the most telegraphed lead left hands I ever saw which was embarrassing to watch. She got countered by Valentina's right hand all the time. She's a really one dimensional boxer with exactly one good punch.

I love Holly for what she did to Ronda but people who claimed that she has "P4P" best technical boxing in MMA always seemed ridiculous to me. A 155 lbs male fighter with Holly's technique gets jabbed to death by Nate Diaz in a pure boxing match.

Holly was so predictable and ineffective in this fight, and she also has no ability to fight in the pocket. I rewatched the fight last night and by the 4th round it was almost comical watching Holly miss that same predictable 1,2,3 combo every time she attempted it.

 

[NinjaNiK]

I do not have the technical knowledge to comment much, and need to rewatch with a critical eye...but I was indeed wondering throughout the fight "where is her jab?"

Holly also appeared physically stronger in being able to control Valentina against the cage, yet i don't recall any sustained effort to put a muay thai fighter on her back...why not?

It was also strange to see such little change in gameplan during the fight.

Because Holly has absolutely no ground game whatsoever ... that's why

 

[Aleksander_Kharitonov]

If you understand boxing camps they start off by bringing in crappy fighters who can take a punch (Diaz Bros) to act as glorified punching bags to build endurance, then as the camp progresses they bring in actual skilled sparring partners to fine tune their timing. Ward is not going to say anything negative about them regardless if they are bad.

Are you the guy who made that troll brock thread about him having asthma?

 

[TatooNU]

BS. Holy Holm is the former undisputed Women New Mexico Boxing champ.

 

[Kowboy Karl]

She lost because unless someone is running right at her she has absolutely no ability to close the distance, stay on the pocket and land effective punches or do anything in the clinch.

Watch the fights of hers from legacy to Ufc.

She grunts and yells and she's not even throwing a strike all the while being Galway across the octagon away from her opponent. Mix that with a white belt in Bjj and you have a one hit wonder fighter.

So annoying and ackward.

The best part of her game is the weigh in

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Are you the guy who made that troll brock thread about him having asthma?

nope

 

[Hi-Tech]

No, stop projecting your own situation on to me. You're the one who's denying it because Nate cracked McTapper and made him start panic wrestling. Where are Nates boxing world titles? He doesn't have any because you can't win a boxing world title if the only thing you know is a 1-2.

No one is comparing Nate to elite boxers. Even if he only knows a 1-2 Holly doesn't even know how to land that. Her only good punch is a lead left hand under specific circumstances (if the opponent is orthodox and literally running into the punch). Women boxing is beyond horrible and even those journeymen who would beat Nate have technique that is levels above Holly Holm who doesn't even know how to throw a jab. Women boxing is beyond horrible and has an even more shallow talent pool than women MMA.

Besides, using a 1-2 correctly and landing it flush isn't that easy, the whole boxing game of Wladimir Klitschko revolves around it.

 

[Tormund]

No one is comparing Nate to elite boxers. Even if he only knows a 1-2 Holly doesn't even know how to land that. Her only good punch is a lead left hand under specific circumstances (if the opponent is orthodox and literally running into the punch). Women boxing is beyond horrible and even those journeymen who would beat Nate have technique that is levels above Holly Holm who doesn't even know how to throw a jab. Women boxing is beyond horrible and has an even more shallow talent pool than women MMA.

Besides, using a 1-2 correctly and landing it flush isn't that easy, the whole boxing game of Wladimir Klitschko revolves around it.

Nah, Womens boxing actually has an organized amateur system unlike MMA. If Holm was a man and got put against Nate she'd embarrass him because Nate wouldn't be able to land his basic 1-2 on somebody who actually knows how to roll punches and use lateral movement and footwork, there's more to boxing than just being able to land a 1-2 while taking 3 or 4 punches in the process. If Nate fought somebody with Vals pedigree in striking he'd get his shit pushed in and probably get finished.