Holly Holm lost because she doesn't have a jab

giantveggie said:
I feel like she lost because she has very poor MMA skills. This was her chance to take somebody down and submit them. She should have learned something down at Jackson Wink in all this time?!?!?!
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She doesn't care.
 
Being like 33-2 in boxing, world champion shouldnt like guarantee she has a decent striking game including the basic jab punch?
 
Tormund said:
NO, he isn't. It doesn't matter if the depth is shallow, Nate wouldn't even make it to European level. He literally only throws 1-2s, he has no footwork or lateral movement and he gets hit A LOT. Why is Nate all of a sudden the second coming of B-Hopkins? He's had his shit pushed in more often than not at LW and has never fought anybody of Vals caliber in the striking department. Nate is overrated. Until Nate actually steps foot in a boxing ring there's absolutely nothing to suggest he can even compete with a journeyman.
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Andre Ward begs to differ, and while there is clearly a bias due to them being sparring partners Im pretty sure his word is still worth a lot more than yours on Nate Diaz ability.
 
Tormund said:
NO, he isn't. It doesn't matter if the depth is shallow, Nate wouldn't even make it to European level. He literally only throws 1-2s, he has no footwork or lateral movement and he gets hit A LOT. Why is Nate all of a sudden the second coming of B-Hopkins? He's had his shit pushed in more often than not at LW and has never fought anybody of Vals caliber in the striking department. Nate is overrated. Until Nate actually steps foot in a boxing ring there's absolutely nothing to suggest he can even compete with a journeyman.
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Ok so European level on men's boxing has a far deeper talent pool than women's boxing too. Just go to any boxing gym for every 100 guys that trains and competes in boxing there is 1 or 2 girls. I don't think Nate is a good boxer, he's an effective striker with his hands suited for MMA.
 
Aleksander_Kharitonov said:
Andre Ward begs to differ, and while there is clearly a bias due to them being sparring partners Im pretty sure his word is still worth a lot more than yours on Nate Diaz ability.
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Andre Ward has no reason to belittle Nate publicly so why would he? Nate doesn't know how to do anything apart from throw a basic 1-2.
 
Tormund said:
NO, he isn't. It doesn't matter if the depth is shallow, Nate wouldn't even make it to European level. He literally only throws 1-2s, he has no footwork or lateral movement and he gets hit A LOT. Why is Nate all of a sudden the second coming of B-Hopkins? He's had his shit pushed in more often than not at LW and has never fought anybody of Vals caliber in the striking department. Nate is overrated. Until Nate actually steps foot in a boxing ring there's absolutely nothing to suggest he can even compete with a journeyman.
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The Diaz fans will mention that Andre Ward loves training with them but I think that is less to do with their boxing skills and more to do with the fact that they can take a kicking and still move forward.
 
Didn't read but I was thinking during the fight exactly what the title says. Holly had a big reach and height advantage but couldn't take advantage of it because of her shitty jab, she was getting outjabbed by a way smaller fighter... (Shevchenko could probably be a 125 if that division existed). And her other distance keeping strikes weren't good either, I would have thought that training with Jones would help you in that matter
 
Hi-Tech said:
Holly is a southpaw who is used to fighting orthodox fighters, she seems to be dependent on her lead left hand and that southpaw angle where you have the foot on the outside and then pivot out to the right which is a good weapon to have when you're fighting orthodox fighters but can easily be neutralized when fighting another southpaw.

When you're fighting someone with the same stance as you are (orthodox vs orthodox, southpaw vs southpaw) the jab becomes much more important, that's why so many boxing coaches obsess about it. It's pretty much a necessary punch unless you have some flashy style like Roy Jones Jr., among other things because it helps you find range which is what Holm was unable to do during the entire fight.

Holly was unable to get the jab going and didn't feint the jab properly (her feints are horrible) in fact she didn't even try, she was trying to land some of the most telegraphed lead left hands I ever saw which was embarrassing to watch. She got countered by Valentina's right hand all the time. She's a really one dimensional boxer with exactly one good punch.

I love Holly for what she did to Ronda but people who claimed that she has "P4P" best technical boxing in MMA always seemed ridiculous to me. A 155 lbs male fighter with Holly's technique gets jabbed to death by Nate Diaz in a pure boxing match.
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Agree with everything you wrote.
 
bad_k said:
Ok so European level on men's boxing has a far deeper talent pool than women's boxing too. Just go to any boxing gym for every 100 guys that trains and competes in boxing there is 1 or 2 girls. I don't think Nate is a good boxer, he's an effective striker with his hands suited for MMA.
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Ah, whatever man. You do know olympic boxing is a female sport too, right? There are plenty of good female boxers out there even if you or I don't know them, when I say European level it's because I don't know if it gets any lower. Throw Nate in a boxing ring with an Argentinian journeyman and he'd get laid the fuck out. Fed up of MMA fighters having overrated boxing with no credentials.
 
Tormund said:
NO, he isn't. It doesn't matter if the depth is shallow, Nate wouldn't even make it to European level. He literally only throws 1-2s, he has no footwork or lateral movement and he gets hit A LOT. Why is Nate all of a sudden the second coming of B-Hopkins? He's had his shit pushed in more often than not at LW and has never fought anybody of Vals caliber in the striking department. Nate is overrated. Until Nate actually steps foot in a boxing ring there's absolutely nothing to suggest he can even compete with a journeyman.
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You do know Nate is Andre Wards sparring partner right and Ward has even said he has never hurt either bother and they can both hang.
 
Tormund said:
Andre Ward has no reason to belittle Nate publicly so why would he? Nate doesn't know how to do anything apart from throw a basic 1-2.
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Andre Ward says he goes out of his way to spar with Nate because hes a good southpaw. A high level pro doesnt go out of their way to spar someone who you're describing as basically a bum in terms of boxing ability.
 
kingkshon73 said:
You do know Nate is Andre Wards sparring partner right and Ward has even said he has never hurt either bother and they can both hang.
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Why would Ward belittle Diaz? It makes no sense, and Ward isn't his sparring partner AT ALL. They've just happened to spar together once or twice. Sherdog is so uneducated when it comes to boxing.
 
Tormund said:
Ah, whatever man. You do know olympic boxing is a female sport too, right? There are plenty of good female boxers out there even if you or I don't know them, when I say European level it's because I don't know if it gets any lower. Throw Nate in a boxing ring with an Argentinian journeyman and he'd get laid the fuck out. Fed up of MMA fighters having overrated boxing with no credentials.
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The same thing applies to female amateur boxing in the Olympics, for every 100 amateur male boxers in the gym there is 1 girl. Nate prolly would get fucked up by some Argentinian journey man who comes from a deeper talent pool than women's boxing LOL
 
MMAAAM said:
Ridiculous.
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Wow, throw a straight 1-2 and make McGregor start panic wrestling and all of a sudden you're the new Sugar Ray Leonard, Diaz gets his shit pushed in more often than not, why is so overrated all of a sudden? You saw your boy get completely son'd in sparring by Van Heerden who is a journeyman.
 
bad_k said:
The same thing applies to female amateur boxing in the Olympics, for every 100 amateur male boxers in the gym there is 1 girl. Nate prolly would get fucked up by some Argentinian journey man who comes from a deeper talent pool than women's boxing LOL
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Your redundant argument is getting old, Nate has no boxing skills apart from throwing a basic 1-2 and blocking punches with his face. He tries to roll punches and show good defense but fails miserably for the most part. So many people here know jack shit about boxing, it's annoying.
 
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