Helwani refering to Cormier as the 'lineal champ', is he wrong?

[Taric]

Isn't Cormier the lineal HW champ? I thought he was the first one to beat Bigfoot after Bigfoot beat Fedor? And Cormier hasn't lost at heavyweight....

This is the order.

 

[SirKratos]

When the champion vacates he gives up the lineal championship, otherwise Bas Rutten would be the lineal heavyweight champion for the rest of eternity

No thats not true.

The only way lineal championship could vacate is if someone beat the last lineal champ,or if the lineal champion never fights in that division again.Since there is no proof Jones is retired yet,he IS the LHW Lineal champion.

Same as GSP is the current WW Lineal Champion.

 

[Taric]

Do you guys even know how being a lineal champ works ? You have to beat the man who beat the man who beat the........Goes on like that,starting from the absolute beginning.

This is correct.

So the last LHW Lineal Champ was Jones. In order to change that ,either someone should beat him or he shouldn't fight again ever in that division.

None of those two happened,So Jon Jones is the current LHW Lineal Champion.

This is not.

Why?
Because Frank Shamrock was the original UFC LHW "man"

GSP is the lineal LHW UFC champion.
Seriously.

Spoiler

Frank Shamrock>Renzo Gracie>Matt Hughes>BJ Penn>Nick Diaz>Carlos Condit>Georges St-Pierre

 

[TwoFace]

Do you guys even know how being a lineal champ works ? You have to beat the man who beat the man who beat the........Goes on like that,starting from the absolute beginning.

So the last LHW Lineal Champ was Jones. In order to change that ,either someone should beat him or he shouldn't fight again ever in that division.

None of those two happened,So Jon Jones is the current LHW Lineal Champion.

The title was stripped from him. Jon Jones is inactive indefinitely and his future is unknown at this point...even his manager/agent best friend is saying retirement is a very real possibility. Dan Cormier is the legitimate LHW champion until Jon Jones rematch is set in stone...in which Jon Jones WILL take BACK his LHW title.

 

[Fiestar]

GSP is the lineal LHW UFC champion.
Seriously.

Spoiler

Frank Shamrock>Renzo Gracie>Matt Hughes>BJ Penn>Nick Diaz>Carlos Condit>Georges St-Pierre

That's interesting but if a champ drops down a weight class and loses, he's still the champ so unfortunately, GSP isn't the lineal LHW champ.

 

[SirKratos]

This is correct.


This is not.

Why?
Because Frank Shamrock was the original UFC LHW "man"

Yes he was.And Jones is the lineal champ right now.You must have miscalculated something.Check it out here;

http://www.linealmma.com/light-heavyweight

 

[CoffeeAndBeer]

I've heard him say that twice in post-fight interviews. That's not my understanding of the term, isn't Cormier the opposite of a lineal champ since he didn't beat the champ?

He said like "Cormier isn't the interim champ, he's the lineal champ!". It seems Helwani is confusing the term lineal with undisputed.

edit: 5min mark: https://youtu.be/n3j-lhCfk4Y?t=5m

Ariany Helwani is truly a combat sports n00b.
That's a fraud-proving comment.

 

[SirKratos]

The title was stripped from him. Jon Jones is inactive indefinitely and his future is unknown at this point...even his manager/agent best friend is saying retirement is a very real possibility. Dan Cormier is the legitimate LHW champion until Jon Jones rematch is set in stone...in which Jon Jones WILL take BACK his LHW title. Cormier is the lineal LHW chamion.

Nothing you said is a real proof that Jones is retired.He may come back,and no one will be even surprised.He is the lineal champ until he announces retirement himself.

 

[Taric]

Yes he was.And Jones is the lineal champ right now.You must have miscalculated something.Check it out here;

http://www.linealmma.com/light-heavyweight

That entire site is wrong.

 

[Fiestar]

There we go. Enter logic. End of Thread and all of Sherdog.

No, by that logic, there would no point to the term 'lineal champ' since it would be the same thing as 'whoever is holding the belt'.

 

[SirKratos]

After Frank Shamrock fought Bryan Pardoe,he moved to middleweight division and never fought at LHW before he retired.That makes the next champion of UFC after Shamrock moved from LHW,Tito Ortiz,is the new Lineal LHW champion.

Tito Ortiz lost to Randy Couture.

Couture lost to Belfort.

Belfort lost to Couture.

Couture lost to Liddell.

Liddell lost to Quinton.

Quinton lost to Forrest.

Forrest lost to Rashad.

Rashad lost to Machida.

Machida lost to Shogun.

Shogun lost to Jones.

Jones never lost to anyone,or retired.

Jones is the current LHW Lineal Champion.

 

[SirKratos]

That entire site is wrong.

Nope.Thats how Lineal Championship works.Not saying it matters tho.

 

[Fiestar]

Nope.Thats how Lineal Championship works.Not saying it matters tho.

Well, if the lineal champ retires or drops down a weight class, is he the lineal champ forever or is the next guy to win the vacant belt the new lineal champ?

 

[leto1776]

This talk of lineal champions has always been crap anyway.

 

[Taric]

Nope.Thats how Lineal Championship works.

The entire purpose of a lineal line is to show who beat the man who beat the man who beat the man. You said so in your original post.

The second you disregard that entire premise, you're making up some dumb bullshit that fits your own agenda.

Frank Shamrock was the original man. Nobody beat him at LHW. So either he's still the lineal LHW champion, or GSP is. That's the original belt line.

The second UFC LHW belt line, Jones is the lineal champion of... But who gives a shit who's the lineal champion of a second belt line? That's the scrub tier Tito lineal championship. Frank Shamrock scoffs in the face of it.

Again, GSP is the UFC LHW lineal champion because he beat the man who beat the man who beat the man, etc.

 

[MuyThaiElbows]

Jon Jones is dead to us as of now. Once he comes back, he'll get the belt back, but til then I believe Cormier will reign at 205. If he can keep up with Bones and handle Rumbles striking and power, he can beat anyone at 205 but Bones.

We kind of forget how he was the real "lineal " champ in SF. DC is legit, but everyone needs to have fun before Bones comes back.

 

[Fiestar]

This talk of lineal champions has always been crap anyway.

I think in the case of Jones, it's important since we're talking about current champs and not things that happened 20 years ago.

 

[Kingz]

Frank is still the lineal champ. Never lost it. Jones, Cormier, all of them are paper champs until somebody beats Frank at 205.

 

[SirKratos]

Well, if the lineal champ retires or drops down a weight class, is a new line formed or is he the lineal champ forever? That's the issue here.

The answer for that issue is;

When a Lineal Champ never fights at the division that lineal championship is talked of,and when he officially retires;The next champ AFTER he retired becomes the new Lineal Champion.

 

[SirKratos]

Frank Shamrock was the original man. Nobody beat him at LHW. So either he's still the lineal LHW champion, or GSP is. That's the original belt line.

If you never fight again in a weight division for the rest of your career,Lineal Championship holder changes.This is the way Lineal Championship works,and it was always like this.

I'm not creating the rules man,if you want to call it as you said(If a lineal champ retires without losing,he will always be the lineal champ) than call it a "Taric Lineal Championship".

Because thats not what Lineal Championship is.