Has the Exodus Begun?

This is another example of a poster talking about something he obviously knows nothing about....

Ive stated this many times on this site, but your argument has been debunked 100 times over yet people like u hold on to it as if it were true.

Dave Meltzer & Frank Shamrock (among others disagree)

http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/1/11/3859604/the-demise-of-strikeforce

The other major event was the signing of Emelianenko, still considered at the time of his signing by most inside the sport as the best heavyweight, and many still considered him the best overall fighter in the sport. But it came at a huge cost and with tremendous headaches. Not only did the cost per fight run into the millions, but they had to co-promote every show with M-1 Global, Emelianenko's fight company. And after every show, Emelianenko's people would keep trying to change the deal. He was also submitted in one minute by Fabricio Werdum's triangle, in what was from a world MMA news standpoint, the biggest moment in the company's history.

The idea to turn things around, was the heavyweight Grand Prix tournament. It was an idea from Japan. Coker had regularly attended the K-1 World Grand Prix every year which at its peak would sell out the Tokyo Dome and be every bit as big in that country to the public as an event like the Final Four of the NCAA basketball tournament was in the U.S.

Instead of one night, he figured it was best to space it out over a year, like Pride had done with its successful tournaments. The idea would be two first round fights on two different nights, then the two semis a few months later, ending with the finals. The idea at first was that hopefully the semifinals could get them back on CBS, and build to the finals on pay-per-view with the hook of crowning the "true" best heavyweight in the world.

But even before the tournament had started, SVSE decided it wanted out.

"From their side, they invested a lot of money into the brand," said Shamrock. "We were signing some high dollar fighters, Dan (Henderson), Fedor, and when we committed to the heavyweight tournament, that was a huge financial commitment. Those guys, they aren't big risk takers. After we signed Fedor at everyone's suggestion, we didn't get the support from our distributors that we thought and hoped for. Nothing was guaranteed and they could expose themselves to great risk, and they got out. To them, it was just business. We were an asset not making enough money and having too much risk. For the rest of us, it meant a lot more."

They spent heavy on the tournament. The eight first-round fights would pit Emelianenko vs. Antonio "Bigfoot" Silva, the Elite XC champion when it folded and a huge guy. Andrei Arlovski, the former UFC champion, would face Sergei Kharitonov, one of Pride’s top heavyweights when it went down. Josh Barnett, another Pride heavyweight star, would face Rogers, who gave Fedor a great fight on CBS. And Alistair Overeem, champion by that point in Dream, K-1 and Strikeforce, returned to face Werdum. The idea was to build for Overeem vs. Fedor in the semifinals.

There was simply no way to outlay the kind of money it took to get those fighters together without big pay-per-view numbers or much larger television rights fees backing it up.

Coker over-paying was directly related to SF owners wanting out.

No idea why you think otherwise
 
Dave Meltzer & Frank Shamrock (among others disagree)

http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/1/11/3859604/the-demise-of-strikeforce



Coker over-paying was directly related to SF owners wanting out.

No idea why you think otherwise

I see your shamrock ,and Meltzer and raise you the horse's mouth...

http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/6/1...lm-scott-coker-reflects-on-bellators-past-and


coker never bankrupted sf, or ran it into the ground.. coker himself said that sf was indeed profitable.. the only shows that weren't profitable were the ones with fedor... he said that those shows would break about even...

coker also state that he wanted to continue the operation, but the people he sold stock to saw the 40m the ufc put on the table and took it...

Coker stated that his biggest mistake was selling stock to people who weren't 100% invested in mma, rather they were only in it for the quick buck.

i agree that coker spent a lot on fedor, but fedor was one of the main reasons that sf got the deal on cbs. the amount of eyeballs that fedor brought sf was more than worth it....

My point: coker never ran sf into the ground... rather it was sold, by people who wanted the quick buck, for a healthy profit.
 
Sorry for not apparently being specific enough.

My point was to ask if Bellator's willingness to pay decent money, combined with fighters' general disdain for the Reebok deal, would mean a rise in people defecting to Bellator.

I think we might see more guys on the level of JT and Davis going to Bellator, but I don't think we'll see any real superstars. The UFC could have matched JT's contract but they didn't. With bigger names, like with Gil, I think they will continue to match. It seems like there's room for guys like Davis and JT, who have a name but who aren't "superstars" to get some more money from Bellator, especially when you factor in sponsorship money, that the UFC won't see the value in matching. I think some more of those guys might see greener grass in Bellator now, where in the past just being in the UFC might have meant more sponsorship dollars so that even if Bellator offered a bigger base contract, the UFC was still the safer/better/more lucrative option. I think the UFC will still keep anyone they really want to keep, but lose a few guys that they would have liked to hold onto, but who they decided weren't worth the money Bellator offered.
 
I see your shamrock ,and Meltzer and raise you the horse's mouth...

http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/6/1...lm-scott-coker-reflects-on-bellators-past-and


coker never bankrupted sf, or ran it into the ground.. coker himself said that sf was indeed profitable.. the only shows that weren't profitable were the ones with fedor... he said that those shows would break about even...

coker also state that he wanted to continue the operation, but the people he sold stock to saw the 40m the ufc put on the table and took it...

Coker stated that his biggest mistake was selling stock to people who weren't 100% invested in mma, rather they were only in it for the quick buck.

i agree that coker spent a lot on fedor, but fedor was one of the main reasons that sf got the deal on cbs. the amount of eyeballs that fedor brought sf was more than worth it....

My point: coker never ran sf into the ground... rather it was sold, by people who wanted the quick buck, for a healthy profit.


Shocker. Corker saying Corker didn't fuck up.

The fact remains, that the people who owned the operation weren't happy with the fact that their investment wasn't making them the money that they wanted, namely because of the fact that Corker was over paying middling and over the hill fighters.

He also never even says it was a profitable enterprise as a whole, just that certain cards didn't lose money. That's buisness man double speak. It's a fact that Strikeforce the company was losing money. He talks about how SVE "didn't understand the MMA business" and how young of a company SF was, and "forget the numbers and Xs and Ys and Zs" and shit like that. He never uses the word "profitable" or anything like it and it's because he can't honestly do so.
Scott was willing to keep losing money on SF because he thought he could break through to profitability. SVE thought SF was losing too much money, and sold out to Zuffa.
 
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time will tell, but if the reebok contract is as cheap as we think then that exodus will happen sooner or later, maybe not in fighters going from UFC to Bellator but from talent growing bigger in Bellator.

I hope Reebok deal isnt that bad
 
Shocker. Corker saying Corker didn't fuck up.

The fact remains, that the people who owned the operation weren't happy with the fact that their investment wasn't making them the money that they wanted, namely because of the fact that Corker was over paying middling and over the hill fighters.

He also never even says it was a profitable enterprise as a whole, just that certain cards didn't lose money. That's buisness man double speak. It's a fact that Strikeforce the company was losing money.

I see where u are coming from, and u make solid points...

But as i look deeper into the matter, i just get the sense the coker and sf was doing something right....

If the ufc has to basically come in and buy you out for a healthy profit, while gutting your GP... then you werent fucking shit up..

If coker was truly fucking shit up, why didnt the ufc simply let sf crash and burn, and pick up the scraps after the fact? That would have been much more cost effective imo....
 
I see where u are coming from, and u make solid points...

But as i look deeper into the matter, i just get the sense the coker and sf was doing something right....

If the ufc has to basically come in and buy you out for a healthy profit, while gutting your GP... then you werent fucking shit up..

If coker was truly fucking shit up, why didnt the ufc simply let sf crash and burn, and pick up the scraps after the fact? That would have been much more cost effective imo....


That isn't what happened though

SF owners put it up for sale, because they were not making the $$$
 
They will keep who they want. Remember Glibert Melendez...
 
I doubt there will be an exodus, but I do believe you'll see more talent going to Bellator for the long run over UFC.
 
That isn't what happened though

SF owners put it up for sale, because they were not making the $$$

The point being mad was, coker never ran it into the ground or bankrupted it, as people imply...

" they not making enough money" is subjective and up to the people who ran it... coker simply stated that they made money... never said they were rolling in it...
 
Is Josh Thomson's departure for Bellator possibly the start of something big? If he can make triple (or more) the money in sponsors elsewhere.... and make roughly the same in base pay, why not?

Yes, Josh Thomson, who is 38 years old in a month and is 2-5 in his last 7 is the leader of a mass exodus.
 
The point being mad was, coker never ran it into the ground or bankrupted it, as people imply...

" they not making enough money" is subjective and up to the people who ran it... coker simply stated that they made money... never said they were rolling in it...

You moved the goal post

I wrote
Coker over-paying was directly related to SF owners wanting out.

You argued that
 
You moved the goal post

I wrote


You argued that

Didnt argue that... i clearly argued the fact that people keep saying that coker bankrupted sf.... look back and read..
 
They're all Zinkin Entertainment and Sports Management clients. He's just moving some of his fighters over.
 
For some reason I read exodus shogun. The new Shogun that doesn't train in Brazil.

Exodus Shogun is the next champ.
 
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