"Hard-Working American" Myth

[MarcoW]

yep.

- IGIT

what if, due to lack of jobs, due to racism, sexism, or a criminal past that you have put behind you, you cannot find such a job?

Clearly its more complicated than that.

 

[Perfidious]

Where in the American dream does it guarantee you will be rich, even if you work hard?

Yes those damn conservatives and trying to tell society to work hard, I guess we could just give up and tow the liberal line and just say screw it, tax the rich,no need to work hard.

The American Dream isn't some written document that has guidelines, genius. It's just a line conservashits always repeat, that isn't true.

My point being that you need some sort of skill to make money, along with dedication and hard work. You need to gain some skills to advance.

 

[IGIT]

Where in the American dream Or Canadian does it state that you will get ahead and have a fantastic live with all you desire, only having to work 1 entry level job?

Lord forbid, someone work 2 jobs

Naww funk that, I want the world at my feet for only workin forty.

hello CableandThanos,

i think the definition of the "american dream" changes as society changes. in terms of what you're referencing, yesterday's dream is now today's distant fantasy.

1950—Top CEO salary in America: GM chairman Charlie Wilson is paid $663,000, roughly $5 million in today’s dollars, and about 40 times the annual wage of his average assembly line worker. Corporate ethic frowned on CEOs taking stock grants as unfair “competitive avarice.” Economists call this period “The Great Compression because the income gap between the rich and the middle class is at its narrowest in the twentieth century.

Mid-1940s to Mid-1970s—Heyday of the middle class, when the U.S. economy is driven by the dynamics of “the virtuous circle.” Companies paid high wages and tens of millions of families had steady income to spend, generating high consumer demand. Robust consumer demand propels businesses to invest in new plants and technology and to hire more employees, fueling the “virtuous circle of growth” to another round of expansion and higher living standards.

http://hedricksmith.com/timeline-who-stole-the-american-dream/

i don't see this as "good" or "bad", it's just the way it is. as the baby boomers age and either die out or descend into dementia, this olde thyme version of the American Dream will whither and fade.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

what if, due to lack of jobs, due to racism, sexism, or a criminal past that you have put behind you, you cannot find such a job?

Clearly its more complicated than that.

hiya MarcoW,

i don't know, i can't speak to that. i'm not white, nor were my parent's born in this country, and we have managed to do very well in the United States.

your OP seemed to center around entry level jobs, not corner offices in upper management - minorities and women seem very well represented in entry level jobs.

if you have a criminal past? tough shit, you know?

- IGIT

 

[ultramanhyata]

I work around 100 a check and go to college full time too. It blows, but is doable. Most people do not want to bite the bullet and go through the crunch to be successful. More for those of us who are willing.

Reginald from the Polo Club is thankful for your inspiring Protestant work ethic.

 

[7437]

I go to university full time and work 2 jobs during summer while doing summer classes.
On top of that I have to constantly work out in order to stay in shape for police testing.
It doesn't matter what we do. It doesn't change the fact that we should get fair wages for fair work.

get a better job. electrical union is usually picking up apprentices.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

When the playing field isn't even equal to begin with why are people crying "work harder."


The deck is stacked so much in certain groups favor u could work 24 hours a day and it wouldn't matter much.

 

[IGIT]

When the playing field isn't even equal to begin with why are people crying "work harder."


The deck is stacked so much in certain groups favor u could work 24 hours a day and it wouldn't matter much.

hello Kong,

i don't want to seem combative or disrespectful, but which "group" has the deck stacked against them?

jewish MBAs?

hispanic american Petroleum engineers?

african american Pediatricians?

asian americans in the Pharma industry?


or is it people who work at Taco Bell?

- IGIT

 

[MarcoW]

get a better job. electrical union is usually picking up apprentices.

no electrician would want an apprentice that goes to classes 4 days a week.
and I would likely have to go to a trade school, where I would rack up more debt.
No I have to keep the path I'm on now. The only reason I'm doing as well as I am is because I was a member of an upper-middle class family until 3 years ago.

 

[MarcoW]

hello Kong,

i don't want to seem combative or disrespectful, but which "group" has the deck stacked against them?

jewish MBAs?

hispanic american Petroleum engineers?

african american Pediatricians?

asian americans in the Pharma industry?


or is it people who work at Taco Bell?

- IGIT

women, ethnic minorities, the working poor, the disabled, etc etc.
You can cite firsthand sources all you want but statistics show that this is still the case.

 

[TeTe]

It's hard work and/or education that gets you ahead.

Consumerism is the bigger issue when it comes to what people think that poverty is. People think because they don't have a McMansion, a BMW and $1,000 watch that they are someone in poverty.

Like Pan said, entry level jobs aren't supposed to pay great. You can work hard and get promoted in that field or become more educated and get the hell out.

Could you imagine how much more some of these people could accomplish if they worked as hard at their job as they do worrying about how much other people make and what they have?

 

[Queen B]

LOL at blue collar and entry level jobs being "hard work"

 

[TeTe]

women, ethnic minorities, the working poor, the disabled, etc etc.
You can cite firsthand sources all you want but statistics show that this is still the case.

And yet you see people from all those groups thrive. What their excuse? Or lack of excuse should I say?

 

[TeTe]

Is this the part where we complain about CEO salaries as if somehow what they make even affects anyone else that works for that same company?

 

[IGIT]

women, ethnic minorities, the working poor, the disabled, etc etc.
You can cite firsthand sources all you want but statistics show that this is still the case.

hello again Marco,

i don't know, i guess. this is a pretty broad topic and hard to discuss in two or three paragraph snippets.

women in major US cities who are without children are actually doing very well, financially - but if you leave the workforce for a couple years to raise children, it tends to truncate your advancement.

that's just reality.

regarding ethnic minorities, i can see your point - certainly i find it odd that Asian americans, despite their academic prowess, seem to hit a glass ceiling in most US corporate structures and i've never understood it.

regarding the poor - sure, the deck is stacked against them. i'm curious how well the working poor made use of my K-12 tax dollars that i've been contributing to all my life.

regarding the disabled? i guess it is sort of hard to advance in certain fields if you're missing an arm or a leg or are wheelchair bound. i don't know what to do about that.

- IGIT

 

[Gametheory]

That's just some rhetoric thrown around in conservative circle jerks.
Most people in rich countries work hard.

One difference is that Americans have less vacation time.

 

[IGIT]

LOL at blue collar and entry level jobs being "hard work"

hello Queen B,

it can be hard work, physically - mostly it's sort of boring work.

- IGIT

 

[7437]

no electrician would want an apprentice that goes to classes 4 days a week.
and I would likely have to go to a trade school, where I would rack up more debt.
No I have to keep the path I'm on now. The only reason I'm doing as well as I am is because I was a member of an upper-middle class family until 3 years ago.

Sure they will. Take night classes. The schedules are pretty stable, so you can plan classes around them. And trade schools arent a good thing, an apprenticeship is the same thing, but you get paid instead of paying for it. IBEW has a good program for guys getting started.

The only reason I am doing well is because I did 6 in the military and make sure I have a plan for everything I do. I came from a lower class family, and am already better off than my parents. It is rough, but it gets better every day.

 

[7437]

Reginald from the Polo Club is thankful for your inspiring Protestant work ethic.

Im sure he does. I am aware that I make more profit for others than I do for myself. I do not plan on working for someone else forever.

 

[Bay Area]

Let's be honest, are people just scraping by? Or are they buying crap that is not a necessity at certain skill levels.

Most of us (American), even the poor, have multiple tvs, dvds players, cable, cell phones, eat out, etc.

I love the way people imagine that the mean old companies are out screwing everyone over while we the little people make all the right decisions, are not wasteful or spend on excess and frivolous crap, we don't run up credit cards, and lose money gambling and buying lottery tickets, smoke $8 packs of cigarettes, etc.

if it wasn't for those mean old companies us perfect people would be better off and basically equal.

Lol. People doing low wage labor use credit cards because they are receiving low wages. They are a necessity in order to pay for things like clothes and bills. If they weren't getting fucked by their employers in terms of wages, CCs wouldn't be needed.