"Hard-Working American" Myth

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by MarcoW, May 11, 2014.

  1. MarcoW

    MarcoW Bojacked Horsehungman

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    It applies to Canada as well and I would say it is essentially the basis of the desire for hardcore capitalism in our nation-states.
    But having worked in "Hard-Working Sectors" like manual labour (assembly) and entry level trades (framing and demo) the variety of these jobs do not get "Hard-Working Americans" ahead.

    In fact in Canada these jobs, without bonuses, would not even be able to climb out of the first tax bracket.

    If I worked 8 hours a day for every weekday the job I am in now I would only make 27,000. I think these people certainly deserve more. In fact in order to climb out of the first tax bracket (40,000 income) they would have to work 91 overtime shifts over a 365 day work year.

    I don't even know any workplace with that much overtime available.

    So, the point. You can be as hard-working as you want, but as mistreatment of workers and unfair wages are so common it won't get you anywhere, except for poverty.
     
  2. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Is your complaint that they're not in a higher tax bracket or with what the income actually buys. Who cares what tax bracket you're in if you can buy the things you need?

    Secondly, why would entry level jobs get anyone ahead? They're entry level jobs. You get ahead by moving out of them into higher level jobs.
     
  3. AgeofEmpires2**

    AgeofEmpires2** Silver Belt

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    Remove taxes and how much do you end up with?
     
  4. MarcoW

    MarcoW Bojacked Horsehungman

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    -20% for the first tax bracket, so 21,600
     
  5. MarcoW

    MarcoW Bojacked Horsehungman

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    but hard work doesn't move you out of these jobs.
    In fact the hardest working people I have noticed are old people who have been in these jobs for 20+ years. Sure they've got slight pay raises over the years but they still aren't making more than the first tax bracket.

    The tax bracket is just an indicator meant to show that no matter how hard you work you aren't in a group that the economy and the government considers to be, for lack of a better way to put it, not at the bottom.
     
  6. Shartnado

    Shartnado Yellow Belt

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    Considering most jobs are going to be automated , we better figure out what are plan for the people that aren't needed in the workforce.
     
  7. ultramanhyata

    ultramanhyata Gold Belt

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    You could not be more right. It is a myth perpetuated, duplicitously, but out of practical necessity, by the monied classes.

    Whereas they fully understand that the highest objective of the capitalist is to let one's financial investments do the lion's share of the "work" while one enjoys as much leisure as possible throughout the course of one's lifetime.

    Without hundreds of millions toiling long hours in the salt mines doing the "right thing" the rich could not afford to spend the day enjoying the polo matches.
     
  8. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Hard work gets people ahead. But not everyone is qualified for more difficult work that pays better money. But if someone has been working hard and haven't learned enough to qualify for a better job somewhere else then I, regretfully, must characterize them as "not capable".

    If you're not smart enough or talented enough to get a promotion or a new job paying more then maybe you should start looking at ways to supplement your full time income. Or find a job that rewards your skill set. And if you don't have a skill set...that's your problem.

    We can't all be indian chiefs (no disrespect intended to Native Americans reading this post).
     
  9. shootermcgavin7

    shootermcgavin7 Blue Belt

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    In a market-based economy, consumer decisions drive everything at the end of the day.
    At a very basic level, if one job is more "important"** in getting consumers stuff that they want than another job, the first job will pay more.

    **"important" here is in the context of supply/demand for labor as a factor of production.
     
  10. CableandThanos

    CableandThanos Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Where in the American dream Or Canadian does it state that you will get ahead and have a fantastic live with all you desire, only having to work 1 entry level job?

    Lord forbid, someone work 2 jobs

    Naww funk that, I want the world at my feet for only workin forty.
     
  11. AgeofEmpires2**

    AgeofEmpires2** Silver Belt

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    Did they take financial statistics from everyone? Right now we have the lowest savings rate in history, and there's a large chunk of people that are living paycheck to paycheck and some of those people, not all because they really are poor, are spending it on $120 cell phone bills and car payments they can't afford to give themselves an illusion that they have money.
     
  12. MarcoW

    MarcoW Bojacked Horsehungman

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    if you work forty hours a week with overtime when on earth do you have time to work a second job? hahaha that's ridiculous.
     
  13. CableandThanos

    CableandThanos Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    LOL ohh my God someone works 40 hours a week and maybe a couple hours overtime??

    Bless there poor little heart.

    Dude I am a licensed medical professional and I work 110-120 hours a paycheck and I watch my 2 small children during the day while my wife is at work.

    I don't wanna hear crap about -- ohh how can someone work more than 40 hours.

    You seem to live in some spoiled fantasy land.

    Why should we have to work 40 hours, why can't we all be paid more, why can't we get rich all equally as fast.

    Grow up.
     
  14. CableandThanos

    CableandThanos Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    I love how the idea of people working 2 jobs or a job and a part time job is so foreign to you. No one in the history of the world has ever had to work 2 jobs to make ends meet.
     
  15. 7437

    7437 Gold Belt

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    I work around 100 a check and go to college full time too. It blows, but is doable. Most people do not want to bite the bullet and go through the crunch to be successful. More for those of us who are willing.
     
  16. MarcoW

    MarcoW Bojacked Horsehungman

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    8 hours overtime a week?
    so 48 hours of work a week. What now, no sunday? so, no day off at all the entire week?
    Working 12 hour shifts? ignoring the legality of working that much...


    and you are a medical professional eh? at least you get paid fairly. I bet you lift 50 pound metal objects all day. Clearly what you do is so physically taxing that doing overtime for you is the same as a manual laborer doing overtime.

    I care about improving the real world. Not saying "That's how the world is, deal with it you pansy."

    Maybe if more people cared things would actually improve.

    Also, your nurses are getting ripped off, overworked and underpaid. As a result burnout, and substandard patient care results. Theres a real world example for you.
     
  17. MarcoW

    MarcoW Bojacked Horsehungman

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    I go to university full time and work 2 jobs during summer while doing summer classes.
    On top of that I have to constantly work out in order to stay in shape for police testing.
    It doesn't matter what we do. It doesn't change the fact that we should get fair wages for fair work.
     
  18. CableandThanos

    CableandThanos Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    No you are a freggin liar

    The other guys says it is impossible to work 40 hours and do anything else.

    I guess all the tv shows and movies and books where people are working 2 jobs or working and going to school are all just made up.

    Has this guy not ever worked with someone who has more than 1 job? basically everyone I work with has multiple jobs and we are in healthcare, much less warehouse workers.
     
  19. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Spoken like someone destined for mediocrity.
     
  20. sabretruth

    sabretruth Too many notes

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    Lol you average 15.5 posts per day. Does your paycheck come once a month?
     

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