International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. V

[Voodoo_Child906]

Gosh, that's a big question isn't it?

That would take some serious negotiation.

That's well above my station.

Well that's the thing, I think everyone would support a ceasfire but we all know that rockets will fly eventually and this mess will start up again. I actually doubt that Netanyahu will accept any long term ceasfire with Hamas still holding power. The only thing I can think of is the Egyptians escorting Fatah into Gaza, and have them slowly take power in stages. Otherwise, this goes on for years with the Gazans getting pounded into dust.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Well that's the thing, I think everyone would support a ceasfire but we all know that rockets will fly eventually and this mess will start up again. I actually doubt that Netanyahu will accept any long term ceasfire with Hamas still holding power. The only thing I can think of is the Egyptians escorting Fatah into Gaza, and have them slowly take power in stages. Otherwise, this goes on for years with the Gazans getting pounded into dust.

Well they need to make clear their terms for the leadership of Palestine then.

Some will call it a coup, and unfair, but it beats Israel's current kill frenzy.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Yet some here who are anti-Israel have claimed it was an option to eradicate Hamas without hurting civilians. An easy option. More nonsense.

Well those anti-Israeli posters certainly aren't actually pro-Palestinian if they support flooding the tunnels with saltwater. That's absurd!

 

[sangreporsangre]

 

[kflo]

Replace "Israeli Hostages" with "Human Shields"...

This is not how they "want" to operate, this is how they are operating.

Based on your observations from the field…..

I’m certain there have been tragic mistakes. Of course, the enemy dresses as civilians. In civilian spaces. They love mistakes. Good for business. They can even fire on their own and blame the IDF.

 

[ferrisjso]

Well that's the thing, I think everyone would support a ceasfire but we all know that rockets will fly eventually and this mess will start up again. I actually doubt that Netanyahu will accept any long term ceasfire with Hamas still holding power. The only thing I can think of is the Egyptians escorting Fatah into Gaza, and have them slowly take power in stages. Otherwise, this goes on for years with the Gazans getting pounded into dust.

Gaza does not want the PLO and considers them complicit in Israeli crimes in the West Bank. This war does not change that. If they go into Gaza and try to govern they are going to get killed and replaced they are not wanted.

Also this whole conversation is pointless Israel has no intent of letting Gaza go. They are doing a song and a dance that the US needs them to do to save face.

 

[Rational Poster]

Wow I'd never thought of that...

... Yes, both sides will obviously have to negotiate.

It seems like the this is pretty common from the ceasefire crowd.

They call for it because it makes them feel good or morally superior, but they can't actually articulate how it would be actually achieved.

JusT NeGoTIaTe haRDeR!

What do you think has been going on for the last 80 years?

 

[kflo]

I also made up that Hamas are cruel and sadistic.

I've never met anyone from Hamas though.

Is that an acceptable assumption?

I bet somehow it is...

Hamas claims to kill innocent Jews. They state it as a goal.

 

[ferrisjso]

It seems like the this is pretty common from the ceasefire crowd.

They call for it because it makes them feel good or morally superior, but they can't actually articulate how it would be actually achieved.

JusT NeGoTIaTe haRDeR!

What do you think has been going on for the last 80 years?

The Likud have made it clear they would rather die than give Palestinians a state.

I do not know how much clearer they have to make this. Any posturing about a two state solution was done solely to aid various US presidents politically that needed them to say the words.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Well they need to make clear their terms for the leadership of Palestine then.

Some will call it a coup, and unfair, but it beats Israel's current kill frenzy.

"Fair" left this region centuries ago. Hamas and Likud are monsters, and both should go. But realistically, getting rid of Hamas would be the first step. Any other suggestions on how this could be done?

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Gaza does not want the PLO and considers them complicit in Israeli crimes in the West Bank. This war does not change that. If they go into Gaza and try to govern they are going to get killed and replaced they are not wanted.

Also this whole conversation is pointless Israel has no intent of letting Gaza go. They are doing a song and a dance that the US needs them to do to save face.

Hamas and Likud both need to go. So what is a realistic solution to get this started in your eyes?

 

[Rational Poster]

The Likud have made it clear they would rather die than give Palestinians a state.

I do not know how much clearer they have to make this. Any posturing about a two state solution was done solely to aid various US presidents politically that needed them to say the words.

And I don't blame them really after the second intifada that directly followed the last serious attempts at peace.

It's pretty clear from the start that Palestinians have never been willing to accept any solution other than a Jewish minority dominated by Arabs and/or literal genocide of Israeli Jews.

 

[ferrisjso]

Hamas and Likud both need to go. So what is a realistic solution to get this started in your eyes?

The most painless way to solve this conflict has always been simply doing Israeli regime change. I've been arguing for this since my technocrat days.

The US only overthrows good govts though they are unwilling to do this they see the Likud as their ideological brethren. So it's not going to happen until we have our regime change.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

The most painless way to solve this conflict has always been simply doing Israeli regime change. I've been arguing for this since my technocrat days.

The US only overthrows good govts though they are unwilling to do this they see the Likud as their ideological brethren. So it's not going to happen until we have our regime change.

So how do the Israelis regime change currently? And how long will this take?

 

[Snubnoze707]

Hamas claims to kill innocent Jews. They state it as a goal.

So does Israel. "Treat them like the Amalek."

 

[ferrisjso]

So how do the Israelis regime change currently? And how long will this take?

Well its not going to happen so its not really relevant. The US deep state has a PHD in regime change and Bibis regime was on the ropes before this war. It is unquestionable they can do it given how integrated the US and Israeli militarys are.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Well its not going to happen so its not really relevant. The US deep state has a PHD in regime change and Bibis regime was on the ropes before this war. It is unquestionable they can do it given how integrated the US and Israeli militarys are. Let a few generals know this is what you want, they arrest Mr Bibi and all his party members etc etc.

If that's an impossibility then again, what is the most realistic way to end this war?

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

And I don't blame them really after the second intifada that directly followed the last serious attempts at peace.

It's pretty clear from the start that Palestinians have never been willing to accept any solution other than a Jewish minority dominated by Arabs and/or literal genocide of Israeli Jews.

Arafat and the PLO did recognize Israel's right to exist in 1988, and they wanted the 67 borders in return. I think we'll agree that this came 40 years too late, but the PLO was at least willing unlike Hamas.

 

[ferrisjso]

If that's an impossibility then again, what is the most realistic way to end this war?

It really saddens me to say it and I don't want to say it. The Israelis are going to get what they want and are going to ethnically cleanse Gaza and likely the West Bank. They've been planning this too long they knew the outrage was coming they think they can overcome it and it's doubtful they are wrong. We're going to lose this one and it's very hard to wrap ones head around that but you're asking me and I'm being honest with you. "Eliminating Hamas" is a very open ended goal and they've already said they plan on this lasting "at least several months". I don't see how we're going to be able to stop them.

 

[Rational Poster]

Arafat and the PLO did recognize Israel's right to exist in 1988, and they wanted the 67 borders in return. I think we'll agree that this came 40 years too late, but the PLO was at least willing unlike Hamas.

It was the PLO that shit on the deal and launched the second intifada.

Whatever overtures they made during the peace process were obviously unfiltered bullshit of the highest quality.

The calls for the 67 borders are also stupid. The 67 borders? Where the West Bank was part of Jordan and Gaza was part of Egypt and there was no such thing as Palestine? Those borders?