International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. II

[idrankyourbeer's maid]

 

[Rod1]

I don't know if it was a failed Hamas launch or an Israeli airstrike on that hospital. What I DO know is that the President of The United States is going to visit Israel tomorrow. Why would Israel commit such an obviously blatant war crime when their greatest supporter is coming?

Why would Israel risk the entire world turning on them, by committing such a heinous act when nearly every camera lens on the planet is pointing directly at them?

It doesn't add up. I'm going to wait for an investigation vs. hearsay. But it looks to me like a failed Hamas launch. I will wait and see. My prayers to those victims and their families.

Because Israel isn't much of a rational actor either or it could be a mistake.

Is there going to be an independent investigation in the first place? Bibi is a corrupt POS doesn't strikes me as the guy that would set an independent commission.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

Move. While doing so, I would consider what life choices I made that may have contributed to my shitty conditions and try to stop them or not repeat them.

Ahh, so where should the Palestinians move to then?

I heard Israel is nice. Maybe they could just move there?

 

[cincymma79]

original borders and i said i would keep israel from playing games by witholding funding from them if they dont.

IF after all of that goodwill the Palestinians still voted in terror groups (without secret funding from israel as is presently the case) that commuted atrocities that would be a VERY different contextual matter.

but i dont have all the answers here man. the whole thing is so ugly.

So they get Jordan back? Not sure they’ll go for that

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Why is there always casual racism and transphobia surrounding every single subject on this forum?

Or did you mean to suggest look at USAs black community to show how forced fatherlessness is a good thing?

You asked about fatherless Palestinian children.

Apparently fatherlessness is only an issue for them, to be blamed on Israel.

 

[Wrath of Foamy]

if i was israel is would give back all of the illegally occupied land i stole and apologize for subjugating Palestinians to inhumane living conditions.

Even after your own people, and citizens from overseas have been massacred? Not sure that would go over well with...everyone in Israel...

do a ground invasion and target them instead of targeting thousands of civilians and hospitals

also what to do with Israel that forces people to live in an open air prison, restric their water and electricity to 3 hours a day, bombs them every two years with white phosphorus (loo "mowing the lawn" doctrine), incarcerate children and sexually abuses them, bombs hospitals and schools, expand illegal settlement, expell old ladies from their house with help of the army, burn olive trees culture and on top of that favors Hamas instead of Palestinian authority because it serves their long game ?

aren't they responsible for what happened? guess not it's a holy state !

I don't know why Israel hasn't launched a ground offensive. I'm not an expert in military tactics, I'll leave that for the smarter posters on this board.

It's a shame that wars can't just happen on a battlefield, devoid of civilians, instead of thousands of civilians having to suffer.

 

[fishNjits]

Ali looks like he's 23 and plays with guns in his mother's basement.

 

[kflo]

I literally condemned hamas terrorist actions dozens of times here but because I explain the deep cause that lead to it which is the constant israeli oppression, killing, illegal settlements, use of forbidden ammunitions, and daily humiliation of Palestinians it enrages him

kflo is an hardcore zionist and the only thing that would be enough for him is if I grovel at his feet and endorse every madness he says

Israel can never be in any wrong because in his eyes it's not a nation like the others it's a holy state

he doesn't want peace he wants ethnic cleansing. he says it if you push him enough

you don't know me.

i want a 2 state solution with peace. i know that will be difficult. i also want limited civilian casualties in this conflict. but the terror has to stop. it has no political objective. the palestinians and their supporters have to turn to political avenues. not terror. not indiscriminate murder. they have to look after their own interests and work on solutions. not just terror.

israel isn't perfect and makes alot of mistakes. i won't get into a debate with you on your view of their historical actions. they don't do all the things you claim but i'm not going down that rabbit hole.

the terror has to stop, terrorists need to be weeded out and good faith political discussions need to take over. and that doesn't include river to the sea. or death to jews.

 

[mkess101]

that is not what i have seen honestly man... some sure but no way is that the whole conversation here.

IDK, it's a lot of it. I know it stands out more so maybe that skews my perception but there are SO many people just dug the F in on this thing.

 

[tastaylvr]

So you're cool with millions of people crossing the US boarder and burdening your country?

isn’t it comical the people who want to build a wall to keep immigrants out also expect other countries just to accept millions of refugees as well?

 

[Bob Gray]

What would you do if you lived in a rubble strewn ghetto with no hope in life?

I wouldn't go door to door murdering families. And I wouldn't support a group that did so. But your answer was just a deflection anyway. supporters can only answer questions criticizing Palestine or Hamas with "But Israel....".

There cant be nuance or context. There cant be blame on both sides. You have to immediately deflect to criticizing Israel without answering the valid criticisms of the side you're supporting.

 

[oldshadow]

i would not support that but i do not think Palestinians would think that as a majority were it not for all of the illegal land grabs and atrocities commuted by israel and their long term plans for taking over ALL the land the Palestinians have. BOTH peoples use that rhetoric man.

israel is the aggressor here imo and hamas is doing profoundly evil things in retaliation. its a giant mess with nobody fully in the right.

if i was biden i would force israel to stop and go back to the original 1967 lines and commit to NEVER trying to steal land again or lose all funding from out country.

They are not going back to 1967 lines. The best would be to separate and turn the west bank and Gaza over to the Palestinians with the conditions they cut off all ties and leave each other alone. I don't think the Palestinians will agree to that because as long as Israel exists they will not be happy. They want it all. Even if they forced the separation groups like hamas would continue the attacks.

It may come down to on both sides "if we can't have it no one will".

However Israel is the one that can make that really happen.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

Haven't they already confirmed that the rockets were hamas?

 

[Rod1]

And just like that Israel lost the moral high ground, they are not better than Hamas, just appear so in a more civilized ways due to better funding and development, at the core there is no difference just a bunch of psychos who let religion and mythology dictate their morals.

 

[Rholk]

FWIW, this isn't exactly accurate. Israel has a responsibility to avoid the deaths of civilians that are not proportionate to the military objective Israel is looking to achieve through a bombing.

A bombing that leads to 5 civilian deaths but also takes out a major rocket factory or a top Hamas commander would probably be proportionate. Taking out a hospital for those reasons resulting in 500 deaths likely wouldn't be. Civilian deaths, while absolutely regrettable, aren't ipso facto war crimes.

Yeah thats a good addition, i meant they have a responsibility to avoid these as much as possible.
Avoiding these at all costs would be impossible with the fight that Hamas is forcing them to fight. By that reasoning nearly every ww2 bombing would be considered a war crime.

Still, even if the head of Hamas was in that hospital, i doubt it would have been a proportional response to bomb it while there's hundreds of civilians around him.
So I'm leaning towards a major fuck up by the IDF, or some shady Hamas set up

 

[Rod1]

Haven't they already confirmed that the rockets were hamas?

Only "confirmation" is Bibi, so far, the video however looks like a JDAM hit, Hamas fireworks don't have the level of firepower.

 

[terrapin]

IDK, it's a lot of it. I know it stands out more so maybe that skews my perception but there are SO many people just dug the F in on this thing.

today i decided that changing minds is not the best course of action as people are pretty dug in. i just need to accept that tribalism reigns and most people dont want to see the context in which this is all happening. i need to be at peace with that in my little corner of the world.

our problem as people has NEVER been a lack of intelligence. the human problem is the unwillingness to use reason in an unbiased way.

 

[jrams]

And just like that Israel lost the moral high ground, they are not better than Hamas, just appear so in a more civilized ways due to better funding and development, at the core there is no difference just a bunch of psychos who let religion and mythology dictate their morals.

First time following Israel and Palestine?

 

[Rod1]

By that reasoning nearly every ww2 bombing would be considered a war crime.

The way WW2 was fought, for the most part was criminal, that is kind of given a slide considering the magnitude of the conflict and how criminal the Axis was.

If we use WW2 as our standard then Israel would be justified to nuke Gaza if Hamas refuses to surrender.

 

[terrapin]

They are not going back to 1967 lines. The best would be to separate and turn the west bank and Gaza over to the Palestinians with the conditions they cut off all ties and leave each other alone. I don't think the Palestinians will agree to that because as long as Israel exists they will not be happy. They want it all. Even if they forced the separation groups like hamas would continue the attacks.

It may come down to on both sides "if we can't have it no one will".

However Israel is the one that can make that really happen.

israel also wants it all and is just as hell bent on getting it.