Law Great American Outdoors Act

[oldshadow]

This is a fault I find with Republicans as well as democrats.

Most Republicans I know are hunters and/or fishermen or just like the outdoors.

We need to make sure our voices are heard by the people we support.

Also I would like to see more controlled hunting and fishing in national parks to increase funding.

 

[jk7707]

This is a fault I find with Republicans as well as democrats.

Most Republicans I know are hunters and/or fishermen or just like the outdoors.

We need to make sure our voices are heard by the people we support.

Also I would like to see more controlled hunting and fishing in national parks to increase funding.

Fishing is allowed in most national parks already. Hunting is banned in national parks, but allowed on many other types of public federal land.

And if we are talking politicians, the Republicans are FAR worse when it comes to public lands than Democrats. The last spending plan to pass the house called for a 12.5 percent cut to the budget of the national park service. During the Trump administration they literally removed a national monument status to open the land up to drilling and mining.

Many Republicans tout their love for public lands, but they sure as shit don't care about paying to take care of them.

 

[Deorum]

America’s National Parks Are Beset by Long Lines, Increased Vandalism

"The amount of full-time equivalent park employees in the National Park Service fell 20% between the 2010 and 2023 fiscal years, according to federal data. Park visitation rose 16% to 325.5 million over that stretch, and the park service got more land to oversee."

"The latest funding bill, which passed the House before the summer recess, would eliminate more than 400 positions next year, according to Democrats on Capitol Hill."

This is what we are dealing with. And nobody in DC gives a shit. They'll all talk about how much they love our national parks. Funding them? No thanks. Especially when it comes to Republicans. One of the reasons I will never support a Republican as long as I live, unless they change their utter disdain for funding public lands in this country.

Man, I would've bet at least a few bills that article was going to lead with Zion. Mr Holmes' wife has saved them from a shitshow. And it goes without saying that modern Republicans are absolute shithouse on this matter. I'm under the assumption that they look to deliberately squeeze the NPS so they can point out how ineffective it is and then make the case that the lands should be opened up for development with assets decommissioned, spun off and sold to the private sector. Nevermind that the vast majority of their own constituents are strongly opposed to doing anything of the sort. With that said, Democrats could be a whole hell of a lot better themselves because the status quo isn't cutting it.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Man, I would've bet at least a few bills that article was going to lead with Zion. Mr Holmes' wife has saved them from a shitshow. And it goes without saying that modern Republicans are absolute shithouse on this matter. I'm under the assumption that they look to deliberately squeeze the NPS so they can point out how ineffective it is and then make the case that the lands should be opened up for development with assets decommissioned, spun off and sold to the private sector. Nevermind that the vast majority of their own constituents are strongly opposed to doing anything of the sort. With that said, Democrats could be a whole hell of a lot better themselves because the status quo isn't cutting it.

All politicians must hang.

Except me when I wins the PotWR

 

[Deorum]

All politicians must hang.

Except me when I wins the PotWR

Ain't No Statesmen Left.

 

[oldshadow]

Fishing is allowed in most national parks already. Hunting is banned in national parks, but allowed on many other types of public federal land.

And if we are talking politicians, the Republicans are FAR worse when it comes to public lands than Democrats. The last spending plan to pass the house called for a 12.5 percent cut to the budget of the national park service. During the Trump administration they literally removed a national monument status to open the land up to drilling and mining.

Many Republicans tout their love for public lands, but they sure as shit don't care about paying to take care of them.

I would need to know the details of any bill and what pork was in it before I support it.

I have no problem drilling on national land if they are held to safety and environmental standards.

I think there should be controlled hunting with federal lottery for the license with all the money going back to that park.

Like I said Republicans need to speak out on this issue.

 

[jk7707]

I would need to know the details of any bill and what pork was in it before I support it.

I have no problem drilling on national land if they are held to safety and environmental standards.

I think there should be controlled hunting with federal lottery for the license with all the money going back to that park.

Like I said Republicans need to speak out on this issue.

I have a major problem with drilling on public land. Because once it's under control of an oil or gas company, it's not longer public. It's marked with no trespassing signs. Roads that were open to the public are gated off. And we do an absolute shit job of holding any of these companies to any environmental standards.

I saw this first hand when I lived in New Mexico. I'd have to travel out onto BLM land to get a particular type of soil to side in some restoration masonry work I was doing on some native american ruins. And on the way we'd have to snake our way past hundreds of drilling pads including many that were clearly not in use anymore, but the sites were filled with trash from old pipelines to open wastewater pits. Just left there. It disgusted me. But it turns out there's almost no enforcement of the regulations because there's not enough employees to do it.

There are a few units managed by the national park service as designated National Preserves and National Recreation Areas that allow hunting. But as far as the National Parks themselves, there should never and will never be hunting allowed on those grounds. The money from licenses shouldn't be a factor in that decision, it goes against the mission of the National Park Service.

 

[jk7707]

Man, I would've bet at least a few bills that article was going to lead with Zion. Mr Holmes' wife has saved them from a shitshow. And it goes without saying that modern Republicans are absolute shithouse on this matter. I'm under the assumption that they look to deliberately squeeze the NPS so they can point out how ineffective it is and then make the case that the lands should be opened up for development with assets decommissioned, spun off and sold to the private sector. Nevermind that the vast majority of their own constituents are strongly opposed to doing anything of the sort. With that said, Democrats could be a whole hell of a lot better themselves because the status quo isn't cutting it.

Oh for sure. Hell, they already started walking down that road when Zinke was head of the DOI.

Zinke Says Privatizing Campsites Could Benefit National Parks

We don't need to fight for a bigger budget, just systematically reduce what the national park service does and then we can make budget cuts permanent! Thankfully he was such a corrupt POS that he got fired before he could do real damage. But the intent was there.

I agree, the Democrats need to make a bigger issue of this. It seems like an easy PR issue to champion, but not enough of them are doing it.

 

[oldshadow]

I have a major problem with drilling on public land. Because once it's under control of an oil or gas company, it's not longer public. It's marked with no trespassing signs. Roads that were open to the public are gated off. And we do an absolute shit job of holding any of these companies to any environmental standards.

I saw this first hand when I lived in New Mexico. I'd have to travel out onto BLM land to get a particular type of soil to side in some restoration masonry work I was doing on some native american ruins. And on the way we'd have to snake our way past hundreds of drilling pads including many that were clearly not in use anymore, but the sites were filled with trash from old pipelines to open wastewater pits. Just left there. It disgusted me. But it turns out there's almost no enforcement of the regulations because there's not enough employees to do it.

There are a few units managed by the national park service as designated National Preserves and National Recreation Areas that allow hunting. But as far as the National Parks themselves, there should never and will never be hunting allowed on those grounds. The money from licenses shouldn't be a factor in that decision, it goes against the mission of the National Park Service.

If they drill on public like I said I would like to see a government oversight and regularly inspect with the report open to the public. They should be paying to the park to maintain it as well and be required to leave it better then they found it.

A lot of parks use professional hunters at night the control population. I still think there could be a controlled way to make money off of it to go back to the park.

That all said our

 

[Deorum]

There are a few units managed by the national park service as designated National Preserves and National Recreation Areas that allow hunting. But as far as the National Parks themselves, there should never and will never be hunting allowed on those grounds. The money from licenses shouldn't be a factor in that decision, it goes against the mission of the National Park Service.

This stuff makes me fucking sick.

Montana Defiantly Puts Yellowstone Wolves In Its Crosshairs

In unprecedented move, new hunting and trapping regulations would allow every wolf coming into state from America's first national park to be killed as a trophy

mountainjournal.org

“Montana is hellbent on erasing one of the greatest wildlife conservation success stories in the history of this country and its liberalized wolf-killing policies allowed to exist literally on the doorstep of Yellowstone are a disgrace,” says former Yellowstone Superintendent Michael V. Finley. “What this does is put wolves, which people come from around the world to see in Yellowstone—and I should note spend money in Montana—in peril. It’s not only wanton waste and morally and ethically reprehensible, but it could also destroy decades of valuable scientific research into these animals.”

 

[jk7707]

If they drill on public like I said I would like to see a government oversight and regularly inspect with the report open to the public. They should be paying to the park to maintain it as well and be required to leave it better then they found it.

A lot of parks use professional hunters at night the control population. I still think there could be a controlled way to make money off of it to go back to the park.

That all said our

If your specifically talking culling hunts, I'd be down. Problem is, they don't happen very often so any fees they would generate would be a tiny drop in the bucket of the budget problems most parks face.

 

[Rob Battisti]

This stuff makes me fucking sick.

Montana Defiantly Puts Yellowstone Wolves In Its Crosshairs

In unprecedented move, new hunting and trapping regulations would allow every wolf coming into state from America's first national park to be killed as a trophy

mountainjournal.org

“Montana is hellbent on erasing one of the greatest wildlife conservation success stories in the history of this country and its liberalized wolf-killing policies allowed to exist literally on the doorstep of Yellowstone are a disgrace,” says former Yellowstone Superintendent Michael V. Finley. “What this does is put wolves, which people come from around the world to see in Yellowstone—and I should note spend money in Montana—in peril. It’s not only wanton waste and morally and ethically reprehensible, but it could also destroy decades of valuable scientific research into these animals.”

Why is Montana doing this?

 

[jk7707]

This stuff makes me fucking sick.

Montana Defiantly Puts Yellowstone Wolves In Its Crosshairs

In unprecedented move, new hunting and trapping regulations would allow every wolf coming into state from America's first national park to be killed as a trophy

mountainjournal.org

“Montana is hellbent on erasing one of the greatest wildlife conservation success stories in the history of this country and its liberalized wolf-killing policies allowed to exist literally on the doorstep of Yellowstone are a disgrace,” says former Yellowstone Superintendent Michael V. Finley. “What this does is put wolves, which people come from around the world to see in Yellowstone—and I should note spend money in Montana—in peril. It’s not only wanton waste and morally and ethically reprehensible, but it could also destroy decades of valuable scientific research into these animals.”

Yep. Come visit this one of a kind national park and witness the wildlife and ecosystem in action. Oh and by the way, as soon as that wildlife steps out of the park it's open season. Disgusting. They blame the wolves for lowering the populations of elk and deer. And they have. To healthy sustainable levels. Unlike the insanely bloated, unhealthy populations that existed in the decades following the eradication of all their natural predators. If you look at pictures of Yellowstone in the 50's you'll see that the trees around the park look like they've been pruned. And they have. They're all eaten all the way up to where an elk can reach on it's hind legs.

 

[oldshadow]

If your specifically talking culling hunts, I'd be down. Problem is, they don't happen very often so any fees they would generate would be a tiny drop in the bucket of the budget problems most parks face.

I agree and we need to properly fund them especially with the required personal.

If it's like the game wardens they can't find enuff people that even want the job.

 

[Deorum]

Why is Montana doing this?

Scientists Say Gianforte's Anti-Wolf, Anti-Grizzly Policies In Montana Have No Scientific Basis

Prominent group of wildlife professionals with 1,500 years of experience condemn Montana's new laws targeting wolves. Already pups from popular Yellowstone wolf pack have been killed

mountainjournal.org

Montana’s natural resources are under attack by extremists and special interests in the legislature and the governor’s office. These extreme views are reflected in the anti-predator, anti-hunter access, and anti-habitat preservation legislation introduced and, in most cases, passed in the 2021 legislature.

Wildlife management in Montana has become politicized. Politicians are now setting science-free wildlife policy based on their personal, partisan agendas. The careful management of Montana’s treasured wildlife and fish used to be a bipartisan issue, but not anymore. The Republicans in the legislature, appointed FWP leadership, and the appointed Wildlife Commission have ignored facts and science to implement regressive wildlife policy. They also have ignored the concerns of the public even when the public is overwhelmingly opposed to what they are doing.

For Wolves, the Culture War Is Extremely Deadly

In Montana, the radical governor changed the rules of the annual hunt, endangering a great rewilding success story.

www.rollingstone.com

Once a proudly purple state, Montana swung red for many of the same reasons as the rest of the country: in part due to the perception in rural America that the Democratic Party is disconnected from low- and middle-income and non-urban people, and — in a state where more than three in five people identify as hunters — out of growing fear that liberals will infringe on Second Amendment rights.

“Hunters, for years, get all spun up on Second Amendment issues, and they give the Republican Party a fair bit of latitude on wildlife issues, because they feel more strongly about the Second Amendment,” Vermillion says. “The governor and legislature are listening to a small but vocal minority when they make these decisions on wolves, and there are a lot of other Republicans who aren’t going to stand up on it because it doesn’t really matter to them.”

 

[Deorum]

Yep. Come visit this one of a kind national park and witness the wildlife and ecosystem in action. Oh and by the way, as soon as that wildlife steps out of the park it's open season. Disgusting. They blame the wolves for lowering the populations of elk and deer. And they have. To healthy sustainable levels. Unlike the insanely bloated, unhealthy populations that existed in the decades following the eradication of all their natural predators. If you look at pictures of Yellowstone in the 50's you'll see that the trees around the park look like they've been pruned. And they have. They're all eaten all the way up to where an elk can reach on it's hind legs.

 

[jk7707]

Seriously. They're ignoring this because some lazy ass, rich hunters are mad they aren't guaranteed a trophy elk every hunt they go on. That's what it comes down to.

 

[Deorum]

Seriously. They're ignoring this because some lazy ass, rich hunters are mad they aren't guaranteed a trophy elk every hunt they go on. That's what it comes down to.

There is some good news that just dropped last week.

Montana Fish and Wildlife Commission Passes Measures that Signal Progress for Yellowstone Wolves — Greater Yellowstone Coalition

On August 16, 2024, the Montana Fish and Wildlife Commission voted for incremental, yet critically important changes to state policies aimed at improving conditions for Yellowstone wolves and the people that depend on them. These changes will reduce the risk that entire Yellowstone packs can be kill

greateryellowstone.org

 

[Deorum]

Why is Montana doing this?

Also proud of Big WYO for not implementing the same sort of idiotic anti-conservation wildlife policies. It's a flat-out better state than Montana. Like so many other things North - Northern Europe, North Dakota (lol), North Rim - the Northern Range of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem is GOATed. It epitomizes "Great American Outdoors". You can also find many, many exceptional trout fishing spots in this area of the park, @koquerelle.

 

[BFoe]

Next summer we have the Grand Canyon road trip planned for my eldest's 25th and my youngest's 16th birthdays!

Trying to convince them on October, as I'm dreading summer temps. But the girlfriend wants to do it for the kid's birthdays (July and August).

We are flying out to Chicago to pick up my eldest, renting an RV, and road trippin' down Route 66 from there.

Three more years and my youngest is 18, he'll be hanging back and watching the house and dog while my girl and I hit the road going campground to campground and National Park to National Park.

I will be activating my banked sick time and taking a three-month sabbatical for that...

Find me somehwere out on that horizon!

I think October would be perfect, although like @Deorum said it is possible to get snow at that time. Are you just going to view it, or to hike? I wouldn’t want to do either in July-August tbh, especially hiking. Fuck that. It’s cooler there than, say, the Phoenix or Tucson area but still probably 95 degrees or so, that shit can get overwhelming quick if you’re hiking.

Do you have an example of some of the things people did wrong?

Not just at the Grand Canyon but in general, people never seem to being enough water hiking in AZ. Even short hikes, if something happens, someone gets injured, or disoriented/lost, heatstroke and dehydration overwhelm people very very quickly. If you’re in the high desert, the drop off in temperature when the sun goes down is very very significant. The desert is very dry, incredibly hot and dehydrating, and get can quite cold if you’re at elevation as well.