Law Great American Outdoors Act

[Deorum]

Appreciate the welcome back. I had to get out for a bit, because I was finding myself getting into these weird spiraling verbal battles with strangers over things that I could just as easily be completely wrong about as being right, but feeling I had to defend endlessly.

I'm determined not to go down that path this time and if I do find it happening, I'll just sign out again. These sorts of threads and conversations are much more what I'm looking for. So thanks for starting it.

You chose a hell of a time to come back during the heat of a US POTUS election year, lol. The forum is riddled with the same threads and identical parallel arguments that are more akin to pure partisan shit-slinging than informed discussion or debate, and it definitely isn't the best work from a majority of otherwise solid posters. I've done what I can to create alternative thread topics.

Economy - US Manufacturing Could Need Up To 3.8 Million New Employees by 2033

Yikes. Who Needs A Job? They're Here. 🇺🇸 🦅 https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/pages/about-deloitte/articles/press-releases/us-manufacturing-could-need-new-employees-by-2033.html

forums.sherdog.com

International - The US/UK H-Bomb MDA Is Set To Expire

Originally signed on the eve of the 4th of July 1958 and hailed as "the great prize" by Super-Mac, this particular Mutual Defence* Agreement is arguably the most exclusive and significant bilateral treaty in existence. A rather brazen violation of international law and in contravention of the...

forums.sherdog.com

International - Wyoming Is Rare Earth

TL;DR: The United States already boasts an extraordinary combination of natural advantages, not only due to sheer geographic size and positioning between the world's two largest oceans but a batshit insane abundance of coastlines, ports, interconnected navigable rivers, freshwater sources...

forums.sherdog.com

Opinion - E Pluribus Unum, or: How I Learned To Reject Partisanship and Love The USA

((@Ameribros)) TL;DR: Yeah, right. I don't expect much engagement out of this one. It's a thread nobody asked for (or even wants), and wild shit has been going down between the upcoming POTUS election and recent SCOTUS rulings. Nevertheless, it's an olive branch of optimism and positive vibes...

forums.sherdog.com

Law - SCOTUS: Apex Court of Last Resort

TL;DR: The final authority on legal interpretation of the US Constitution, the oldest extant charter of national government in the world. There are frequent threads started on specific SCOTUS decisions and the ethics of individual justices. This topic is created for general discussion...

forums.sherdog.com

Law - Gun Control: A Global Overview

What does gun control mean and represent to you? I don't doubt that many of the ordinary citizens who advocate for it do so with the best of intentions. But for me, it is fundamentally the de facto enabling of authoritarian government actions (large scale) and violent criminals (small scale) by...

forums.sherdog.com

 

[Deorum]

Do you have an example of some of the things people did wrong?

It's been a busy month.

 

[Cole train]

I'd say globalism and social media popularization (plus clout chasing) in conjunction with a lack of NPS funding and ranger short staffing are all major contributing factors. There's a lot of foreign nationals visiting these places, and while Chinese tourists are notoriously fucking terrible, I often find that Canadians and most European nationalities behave better than a lot of US citizens. There are workarounds with crown jewels like Grand Canyon and Yellowstone (and they also badly disable or kill a lot of people, lol), but not so much with other destinations like Arches, Great Smokies, Rocky Mountain, Yosemite, and Zion.

I have dramatic yet simple suggestion as solution to overcrowding

Remove car roads from popular cool spots. Force people to hike,ski or go on horseback to these locations

Problem is not caused by long distance hikers or fishermen or anyone who has outdoors as hobby. Its caused by tourists, social media guys etc who all come in by cars near the spot and dont do outdoors stuff as hobby.

This phenom is visible even here

Any cool place in nature that can be accessed by car has people at it all the time

Any cool spot you jave to hike to for 3 days is empty


You will lose a lot of people but you sure as shit will conserve nature (of course above suggestion has massive problems as well)

 

[Deorum]

I have dramatic yet simple suggestion as solution to overcrowding

Remove car roads from popular cool spots. Force people to hike,ski or go on horseback to these locations

Problem is not caused by long distance hikers or fishermen or anyone who has outdoors as hobby. Its caused by tourists, social media guys etc who all come in by cars near the spot and dont do outdoors stuff as hobby.

This phenom is visible even here

Any cool place in nature that can be accessed by car has people at it all the time

Any cool spot you jave to hike to for 3 days is empty


You will lose a lot of people but you sure as shit will conserve nature (of course above suggestion has massive problems as well)

I'm definitely with you here in spirit. The principal mandate of the National Park Service is to protect and preserve the natural resources, full stop. It will be incredibly difficult to sway the political and public emphasis on accessibility and convenience, though. The concept of the road trip with scenic drives is also built pretty deep into modern American culture. I think a good first step would be to at least wipe out the concessions. The idea of full service hotels, big city amenities, shuttle buses and all of the supporting infrastructure, excess crowds and pollution those come with developed on the grounds of national parks has always been fucking atrocious.

A compromise I've been willing to accept in regards to GCNP is that all of that shit is concentrated and kept to one rim of the canyon. I'm one of the only people on the internet promoting the other side, but it's to an exceptionally small audience. There are (very) rustic cabins available and a campground managed by the NPS, but the location is remote. There's no cell service, no internet, no television, no air conditioning, and no electric hook-ups. It puts literally millions of people off: GOOD. Another benefit is that the single highway to reach it by car is really only accessible from May 15th to October 15th and not plowed during winter. It makes it a 45-mile journey to the rim for backpackers, snowshoers, and cross-country skiers.

 

[Deorum]

 

[jk7707]

It's been a busy month.

Thankfully the 8 year old was found and was ok. But these other people are exactly what I was talking about about in a previous post. You don't stumble over the edge of the canyon on the south rim if you're staying where you're supposed to be on the overlooks. These people were intentionally risking their lives for a fucking picture, and a few of them paid for it. I feel bad for their families, but also the dozens/hundreds of other people that just happened to be there that were probably traumatized by seeing a person fall to their death.

 

[jk7707]

I have dramatic yet simple suggestion as solution to overcrowding

Remove car roads from popular cool spots. Force people to hike,ski or go on horseback to these locations

Problem is not caused by long distance hikers or fishermen or anyone who has outdoors as hobby. Its caused by tourists, social media guys etc who all come in by cars near the spot and dont do outdoors stuff as hobby.

This phenom is visible even here

Any cool place in nature that can be accessed by car has people at it all the time

Any cool spot you jave to hike to for 3 days is empty


You will lose a lot of people but you sure as shit will conserve nature (of course above suggestion has massive problems as well)

This will never happen because it goes against the second half of the NPS mission. The trend for some of these extremely crowded parks is to go to times entry to control crowds. And it works, but it's also extremely unpopular with local towns that benefit economically from having as many visitors as possible.

 

[Deorum]

This will never happen because it goes against the second half of the NPS mission. The trend for some of these extremely crowded parks is to go to times entry to control crowds. And it works, but it's also extremely unpopular with local towns that benefit economically from having as many visitors as possible.

I'm chuckling at how ruthless the ramifications of @Cole train's proposal are, and he did acknowledge that it was dramatic. The intended purpose of eradicating destructive tourist hordes and social media shitheads is noble but would also essentially place a de facto ban on children, the disabled, the elderly, and other "heavy set" individuals. Get them all the fuck out, rofl. It would kill a lot of family vacations and 'before I die' bucket list destinations. And of course, you mentioned the biggest reason it actually won't happen.

He wishes to one day visit the United States and go on a grand tour of the American parks; he just wants solitude and unspoiled nature. There are ten of them within the contiguous 48 that have been bestowed World Heritage Site status since 1978, and the variety of aesthetic, atmospheric, geological, and ecological values between them alone is staggering. What resemblance does cruising Going To The Sun Road and hiking to Grinell Glacier bear to exploring an old growth forest of 325+ ft redwoods and camping right off the banks of the Smith River? None, aside from being two of the most extraordinary experiences you could ever have.

* Yellowstone (1978)
* Grand Canyon (1979)
* Everglades (1979)
* Redwood (1980)
* Olympic (1981)
* Mammoth Cave (1981)
* Great Smoky Mountains (1983)
* Yosemite (1984)
* Glacier (1995)
* Carlsbad Caverns (1995)

 

[Rob Battisti]

It's been a busy month.

They found the boy which is a blessing

 

[jk7707]

I'm chuckling at how ruthless the ramifications of @Cole train's proposal are, and he did acknowledge that it was dramatic. The intended purpose of eradicating destructive tourist hordes and social media shitheads is noble but would also essentially place a de facto ban on children, the disabled, the elderly, and other "heavy set" individuals. Get them all the fuck out, rofl. It would kill a lot of family vacations and 'before I die' bucket list destinations. And of course, you mentioned the biggest reason it actually won't happen.

He wishes to one day visit the United States and go on a grand tour of the American parks; he just wants solitude and unspoiled nature. There are ten of them within the contiguous 48 that have been bestowed World Heritage Site status since 1978, and the variety of aesthetic, atmospheric, geological, and ecological values between them alone is staggering. What resemblance does cruising Going To The Sun Road and hiking to Grinell Glacier bear to exploring an old growth forest of 325+ ft redwoods and camping right off the banks of the Smith River? None, aside from being two of the most extraordinary experiences you could ever have.

* Yellowstone (1978)
* Grand Canyon (1979)
* Everglades (1979)
* Redwood (1980)
* Olympic (1981)
* Mammoth Cave (1981)
* Great Smoky Mountains (1983)
* Yosemite (1984)
* Glacier (1995)
* Carlsbad Caverns (1995)

Solitude and unspoiled nature are still pretty easy to find, even with today's crowding issues at the large parks. Going during the shoulder seasons, taking trails less traveled, and even just getting up super early can be a good solution.

When I visited Olympic a few years back it was in August, so still busy, but all I did was get up early and get to the most popular trailheads/overlooks around dawn. No crowds for a couple hours.

 

[Deorum]

They found the boy which is a blessing

I don't mind the growing reputation of it being America's deadliest national park if that means people may actually be less willing to FAFO. There's no excuse for a little boy in his underwear to go missing from the campground at midnight, though; some really horrendous parental negligence there.

 

[fedoriswar37]

Is it a liberal style bill. Aka , very minimal for what it says it will go to and a whole lot to other shite.

 

[Rob Battisti]

I don't mind the growing reputation of it being America's deadliest national park if that means people may actually be less willing to FAFO. There's no excuse for a little boy in his underwear to go missing from the campground at midnight, though; some really horrendous parental negligence there.

Yes and no. If it was midnight the kid could have simply woke up in an unfamiliar place and half slept walked away.

Overall, I agree though.

 

[Deorum]

Solitude and unspoiled nature are still pretty easy to find, even with today's crowding issues at the large parks. Going during the shoulder seasons, taking trails less traveled, and even just getting up super early can be a good solution.

When I visited Olympic a few years back it was in August, so still busy, but all I did was get up early and get to the most popular trailheads/overlooks around dawn. No crowds for a couple hours.

I still haven't ever been to Washington or Oregon, and there are definitely some worthwhile destinations to be found with Olympic, Mount Rainier, and Crater Lake. The latter is pretty much certain to get a side excursion visit at minimum the next time I'm up near Crescent City.

 

[jk7707]

I still haven't ever been to Washington or Oregon, and there are definitely some worthwhile destinations to be found with Olympic, Mount Rainier, and Crater Lake. The latter is pretty much certain to get a side excursion visit at minimum the next time I'm up near Crescent City.

For sure man. In Olympic you can see glaciers and a rain forest in a single day. Rainier during the summer wildflower bloom looks like a movie set. The water in Crater lake during a clear day looks like it's been photoshopped, haha. All spectacular in their own way.

 

[Deorum]

...

 

[Deorum]

 

[BFoe]

The forum is riddled with the same threads and identical parallel arguments that are more akin to pure partisan shit-slinging than informed discussion or debate, and it definitely isn't the best work from a majority of otherwise solid posters.

Psssh, I’m still bringing my A-game and doing the Lord’s work around here.

 

[Deorum]

Yes and no. If it was midnight the kid could have simply woke up in an unfamiliar place and half slept walked away.

Overall, I agree though.

Yeah, fair enough. Mather Campground is a decent jaunt to the rim, but still too close to comfort and overall an awful place to go sleep walking, lol.

MSN

Lilly Endowment, huh. That's interesting. I've always thought it was predominantly a conservative organization that donated to churches and religious liberty causes.

I have dramatic yet simple suggestion as solution to overcrowding

Remove car roads from popular cool spots. Force people to hike,ski or go on horseback to these locations

Problem is not caused by long distance hikers or fishermen or anyone who has outdoors as hobby. Its caused by tourists, social media guys etc who all come in by cars near the spot and dont do outdoors stuff as hobby.

This phenom is visible even here

Any cool place in nature that can be accessed by car has people at it all the time

Any cool spot you jave to hike to for 3 days is empty

You will lose a lot of people but you sure as shit will conserve nature (of course above suggestion has massive problems as well)

Fuck these people. I'd call them animals, but that would be a slight towards the wildlife with far more inherent value than they possess. The crazy thing is that Rancheria Falls isn't even located in one of the popular areas, but Hetch Hetchy -- a once lush and extraordinary valley that was flooded in the early 20th century to create a reservoir for San Francisco’s municipal water supply. And, this was done after Yosemite had already been designated a National Park. If I ever see someone doing this shit, they're going to be forced to clean it up and at gun point is optional.

Yosemite visitors trash park with toilet paper. ‘Just wrong and shameful’

Park officials posted a photo on Instagram on Tuesday of multiple toilet paper rolls abandoned near Rancheria Falls.

www.latimes.com

WTF.



I was actually supposed to go there earlier this year in May, but parental obligations and responsibilities got in the way. I'm even more thankful now that my kid's first NP experience was the Grand Canyon. On that front, I can wholly recommend that it's worth basing an entire individual trip around separate from any other parks like @Long Dark Blues has decided on doing next year. Especially for someone who would be coming from a place like Finland and is used to European landscapes, it would be an especially unique mindfuck. It's dangerous as hell with tons of unspoiled nature and many opportunities for insane physical challenges and terrain to conquer for people up to it.

 

[Deorum]

Psssh, I’m still bringing my A-game and doing the Lord’s work around here.

It's definitely a better subforum when you're active.