Law Great American Outdoors Act

[Deorum]

Holy fuck.

I had those exact fucking shoes.

What did you swap them out for? I've been tempted to make a change from Salomon and give a different brand a shot, but they've treated me well.

 

[Loiosh]

What did you swap them out for? I've been tempted to make a change from Salomon and give a different brand a shot, but they've treated me well.

I had two pairs, one in red, one in black. I used to walk about ten km a day in the city and rotated between them. I loved them but hated the quick laces.

I don't walk nearly as much these days and have a pair of Merrels that weren't nearly as expensive but aren't as good.

 

[Deorum]

I support any and all funding of the National Parks. There is no point where the idea of an undeveloped, unmolested patch of Earth just left to time isn’t preferred. To be appreciated by generations and make people more observant of the environment and ecology as a result.

You still planning on making it out there, @koquerelle?

 

[koquerelle]

You still planning on making it out there, @koquerelle?

Yes, sir. Still saving money.

 

[Deorum]

Yes, sir. Still saving money.

Awesome. You have three distinct advantages working for you that the average visitor doesn't: 1) not going during peak season, 2) plenty of time to spend there, and 3) a Sherbro who treats making sure you have the best possible time like a god damn job. The notorious "crowds" and idiots amongst the horde are NOT going to spoil this fucking vacation of a lifetime for you, like in the case of so many others.

I can't even properly express in words how god damn special the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem (which includes Grand Teton NP) or the memories I have of it are to me, especially since my dad has since passed away. It's hallowed ground, and I treat it almost with religious reverence. My brain is flooded with information and knowledge, so feel free to ask about anything at any time, lol. Especially as it draws closer.

 

[spamking]

I'll never forget being conned into hiking the Grand Canyon within a week or two of moving to the Navajo Nation back in 1995. The people I went with wanted to hike the Bright Angel Trail down to Phantom Ranch and then backup the same day. We did. I felt like I was going to have a stroke on the way back up the trail.

Don't ever do something like that if you can spend the night at Phantom Ranch.

 

[Deorum]

I'll never forget being conned into hiking the Grand Canyon within a week or two of moving to the Navajo Nation back in 1995. The people I went with wanted to hike the Bright Angel Trail down to Phantom Ranch and then backup the same day. We did. I felt like I was going to have a stroke on the way back up the trail.

Don't ever do something like that if you can spend the night at Phantom Ranch.

It's no joke, lol. Phantom Ranch reservations are hard to snag. I'll usually take the South Kaibab trail both ways for rim to river hikes. It has less foot traffic near the rim and follows a true ridgeline descent, so the mileage is far less. The flipside to that is it's also much steeper, and that's serious work on the way back up. Bright Angel is really pretty too, and provides way more shade (plus water refills!). Most people - and I mean of the 1% of visitors who attempt it - will take Kaibab down and then Bright Angel on the way back up.

 

[spamking]

It's no joke, lol. Phantom Ranch reservations are hard to snag. I'll usually take the South Kaibab trail both ways for rim to river hikes. It has less foot traffic near the rim and follows a true ridgeline descent, so the mileage is far less. The flipside to that is it's also much steeper, and that's serious work on the way back up. Bright Angel is really pretty too, and provides way more shade (plus water refills!). Most people - and I mean of the 1% of visitors who attempt it - will take Kaibab down and then Bright Angel on the way back up.

It'll test your fitness for sure. It was in the 40s or 50s on the South Rim and then 75-80 at Phantom Ranch.

I think that Monday after we left a tourist was blown off the trail.

 

[Deorum]

It'll test your fitness for sure. It was in the 40s or 50s on the South Rim and then 75-80 at Phantom Ranch.

I think that Monday after we left a tourist was blown off the trail.

I am thoroughly unsurprised by this.



The NPS seems to be growing frustrated, and I can't say I blame them. This actually might be the most aggressive and condescending "Fuck Around, Find Out" messaging I've ever seen from y'all @jk7707, lol.

Day Hiking - Grand Canyon National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

day hiking

www.nps.gov

Over 250 people are rescued from the canyon each year. The difference between a great adventure in Grand Canyon and a trip to the hospital (or worse) is up to YOU. DO NOT attempt to hike from the rim to the river and back in one day, especially during the months of May to September.

Many options are available for day hikers. Both the South Rim and the North Rim offer rim trail hikes that have spectacular views of the inner canyon, some on paved trails. Or you can choose to day hike into the canyon. Permits are not required for non-commercial day hikes. Day hiking can be a safer and more enjoyable choice than an overnight trip into a difficult area that is beyond the capabilities of any single member of your group.

WARNING: There are no easy trails into or out of the Grand Canyon!

 

[spamking]

I am thoroughly unsurprised by this.



The NPS seems to be growing frustrated, and I can't say I blame them. This actually might be the most aggressive and condescending "Fuck Around, Find Out" messaging I've ever seen from y'all @jk7707, lol.

Day Hiking - Grand Canyon National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

day hiking

www.nps.gov

Over 250 people are rescued from the canyon each year. The difference between a great adventure in Grand Canyon and a trip to the hospital (or worse) is up to YOU. DO NOT attempt to hike from the rim to the river and back in one day, especially during the months of May to September.

Many options are available for day hikers. Both the South Rim and the North Rim offer rim trail hikes that have spectacular views of the inner canyon, some on paved trails. Or you can choose to day hike into the canyon. Permits are not required for non-commercial day hikes. Day hiking can be a safer and more enjoyable choice than an overnight trip into a difficult area that is beyond the capabilities of any single member of your group.

WARNING: There are no easy trails into or out of the Grand Canyon!

I saw several signs saying to not do what were doing . . . the group I was with just ignored it. I'm like guys, I don't wanna die.

7.5 miles down and 7.5 miles back up with a change in elevation of a mile in 4-6 hours is something I don't want to do again.

 

[jk7707]

I am thoroughly unsurprised by this.



The NPS seems to be growing frustrated, and I can't say I blame them. This actually might be the most aggressive and condescending "Fuck Around, Find Out" messaging I've ever seen from y'all @jk7707, lol.

Day Hiking - Grand Canyon National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

day hiking

www.nps.gov

Over 250 people are rescued from the canyon each year. The difference between a great adventure in Grand Canyon and a trip to the hospital (or worse) is up to YOU. DO NOT attempt to hike from the rim to the river and back in one day, especially during the months of May to September.

Many options are available for day hikers. Both the South Rim and the North Rim offer rim trail hikes that have spectacular views of the inner canyon, some on paved trails. Or you can choose to day hike into the canyon. Permits are not required for non-commercial day hikes. Day hiking can be a safer and more enjoyable choice than an overnight trip into a difficult area that is beyond the capabilities of any single member of your group.

WARNING: There are no easy trails into or out of the Grand Canyon!

Yep. They don't pussyfoot around at the South rim permit office. It's filled with signs that flat out say that if you ignore these rules we've listed here you will die. They even got permission from one woman's family to use her death as an example for others and you'll see posters with her picture and story posted there. But people still ignore them and some of them die.

I was at the South rim in May for a training for work, and was walking the rim trail during the evenings. I about had an anxiety attack just watching SO MANY people over the rails, right on the edge of the canyon just to get a fucking picture. I'm not trying to end my day watching someone plummet to their death. Every night was like that. It's amazing more people don't die there each year.

Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon is a book that meticulously goes through the circumstances of each recorded death at the park since it was created. It's kind of a morbid read, but also eye opening, in that VERY few were people who were doing everything right and just happened to get unlucky.

 

[Mr Holmes]

Yep. They don't pussyfoot around at the South rim permit office. It's filled with signs that flat out say that if you ignore these rules we've listed here you will die. They even got permission from one woman's family to use her death as an example for others and you'll see posters with her picture and story posted there. But people still ignore them and some of them die.

Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon is a book that meticulously goes through the circumstances of each recorded death at the park since it was created. It's kind of a morbid read, but also eye opening, in that VERY few were people who were doing everything right and just happened to get unlucky.

Do you have an example of some of the things people did wrong?

 

[jk7707]

Do you have an example of some of the things people did wrong?

-Attempting to get to the river and back in the same day. Particularly in the middle of summer. It can be done, if you're in insane shape.

-Not bringing enough water

-Underestimating how much the temperature increases once you descend below the rim. It can be 80 on the rim, but 100+ by the time you get to the bottom.

There are plenty more specifics, but in general, it's people who don't pay attention to the conditions they're hiking into, and people who overestimate their physical fitness in those conditions.

 

[Deorum]

I saw several signs saying to not do what were doing . . . the group I was with just ignored it. I'm like guys, I don't wanna die.

7.5 miles down and 7.5 miles back up with a change in elevation of a mile in 4-6 hours is something I don't want to do again.

So, I guess a return trip to celebrate the 30th anniversary of that hike isn't in the cards?

Do you have an example of some of the things people did wrong?

Regardless of the actual cause -- plunging thousands of feet off the rim because they wanted a perfect selfie, drowning in the Colorado River because they underestimated its power, or croaking from a combo of dehydration, heat stroke, and organ failure on a corridor trail because they overestimated their own ability -- a lot of it really comes down to arrogance, recklessness, and stupidity. It is an awe-inspiring and humbling place that demands respect. A lot of people don't honor that, and they often pay the price. It can and will Fuck You Up. This almost feels like an every week thing on the local news...

 

[Deorum]

I was at the South rim in May for a training for work, and was walking the rim trail during the evenings. I about had an anxiety attack just watching SO MANY people over the rails, right on the edge of the canyon just to get a fucking picture. I'm not trying to end my day watching someone plummet to their death. Every night was like that. It's amazing more people don't die there each year.

You should have Ed Keable's job. He's a nice enough guy and hasn't done nearly as bad as people anticipated, but the fact that headquarters makes the purely political appointments they do is wild. I realize it's predominantly an administrative role, but damn, zero field experience as a ranger with entire career spent as the assistant solicitor of general law for the DOI, what. Would you uproot again and accept the position of GCNP Superintendent? lol.

-Attempting to get to the river and back in the same day. Particularly in the middle of summer. It can be done, if you're in insane shape.

I've done it, but only in March and/or October. I don't like the South Rim tourist hordes during the summer anyway, and they leave litter around, too. But yeah, @Mr Holmes don't put your wife through that. I don't think @Long Dark Blues' knees or back will take kindly either. On the South Rim, you can still get the experience and perspective of the inner canyon by taking Bright Angel trailhead to Havasupai Gardens; or South Kaibab trailhead down to Cedar Ridge before calling it. On the North Rim, the North Kaibab trail - like everything on the NR - is so fucking beautiful and lush. A good turnaround point is the Redwall Bridge in the thumbnail. The overlook with the lady and kid in the shot is at Cape Royal (no inner canyon hiking required), and is the best in the whole park, north or south, IMO.

 

[Deorum]

7.5 miles down and 7.5 miles back up with a change in elevation of a mile in 4-6 hours is something I don't want to do again.

Jim Walmsley went Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim (44 miles) in under six hours, lol. It's absolutely beyond comprehension -- that's straight up superhuman shit. To be booking like this after already going R2R is insanity, and you can see the pain he was in after reaching the NK trailhead. He annihilated the FKT.



Jim Walmsley (born January 17, 1990) is an American long-distance runner. An ultra-trail specialist, his wins include the JFK 50 Mile in 2014, 2015 and 2016, the Lake Sonoma 50 in 2016 and 2018, the Tarawera Ultramarathon in 2017, and the Western States 100 in 2018, 2019, 2021, and 2024. He holds several course records, including the Western States 100, set in 2018 and further improved by 21 minutes in 2019. In 2023, he became the first American man to win the Ultra-Trail du Mont-Blanc. Walmsley has set 7 Fastest Known Time running records, including the speed record for the 44-mile Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim Grand Canyon crossing in 2016.

 

[jk7707]

You should have Ed Keable's job. He's a nice enough guy and hasn't done nearly as bad as people anticipated, but the fact that headquarters makes the purely political appointments they do is wild. I realize it's predominantly an administrative role, but damn, zero field experience as a ranger with entire career spent as the assistant solicitor of general law for the DOI, what. Would you uproot again and accept the position of GCNP Superintendent? lol.



I've done it, but only in March and/or October. I don't like the South Rim tourist hordes during the summer anyway, and they leave litter around, too. But yeah, @Mr Holmes don't put your wife through that. I don't think @Long Dark Blues' knees or back will take kindly either. On the South Rim, you can still get the experience and perspective of the inner canyon by taking Bright Angel trailhead to Havasupai Gardens; or South Kaibab trailhead down to Cedar Ridge before calling it. On the North Rim, the North Kaibab trail - like everything on the NR - is so fucking beautiful and lush. A good turnaround point is the Redwall Bridge in the thumbnail. The overlook with the lady and kid in the shot is at Cape Royal (no inner canyon hiking required), and is the best in the whole park, north or south, IMO.

Ed actually stopped by and talked to some of us during that same training. They brought him in specifically because he was a lawyer. They wanted that to head off any legal pitfalls that could come with this massive 250 billion dollar water system replacement across the canyon. So that's pretty much his entire focus. Dude struck me as a bulldog. He's like 5'6 but, no bullshit, straight to the point. So probably a pain in the ass to work for, but gets shit done.

I love the canyon but I'd never want to be superintendent there. Wayyy to much political drama with that job. Haha

 

[spamking]

So, I guess a return trip to celebrate the 30th anniversary of that hike isn't in the cards?

Ha. Going back wouldn't be too bad, but definitely not doing that hike again.

 

[spamking]

Jim Walmsley went Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim (44 miles) in under six hours, lol. It's absolutely beyond comprehension -- that's straight up superhuman shit. To be booking like this after already going R2R is insanity, and you can see the pain he was in after reaching the NK trailhead. He annihilated the FKT.



Jim Walmsley (born January 17, 1990) is an American long-distance runner. An ultra-trail specialist, his wins include the JFK 50 Mile in 2014, 2015 and 2016, the Lake Sonoma 50 in 2016 and 2018, the Tarawera Ultramarathon in 2017, and the Western States 100 in 2018, 2019, 2021, and 2024. He holds several course records, including the Western States 100, set in 2018 and further improved by 21 minutes in 2019. In 2023, he became the first American man to win the Ultra-Trail du Mont-Blanc. Walmsley has set 7 Fastest Known Time running records, including the speed record for the 44-mile Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim Grand Canyon crossing in 2016.

I've heard about the rim-to-rim races. But this is insane.

 

[jk7707]

America’s National Parks Are Beset by Long Lines, Increased Vandalism

"The amount of full-time equivalent park employees in the National Park Service fell 20% between the 2010 and 2023 fiscal years, according to federal data. Park visitation rose 16% to 325.5 million over that stretch, and the park service got more land to oversee."

"The latest funding bill, which passed the House before the summer recess, would eliminate more than 400 positions next year, according to Democrats on Capitol Hill."

This is what we are dealing with. And nobody in DC gives a shit. They'll all talk about how much they love our national parks. Funding them? No thanks. Especially when it comes to Republicans. One of the reasons I will never support a Republican as long as I live, unless they change their utter disdain for funding public lands in this country.