Goodbye Fedor vs. Crocop: The HW division is on a whole new level now

[corrupted]

Wasn’t the best showing, both dudes got hit quite a lot and didn’t have the best defense. HW division has been regressing since Cain lost to Werdum.


0/10 thread wouldn’t read again

Before that

 

[gono btw]

That Derrick Lewis stuff is actually the proof that it matter who you are fighting, because it's easy to look good against an opponent that sucks.
Still that armbar sucked and Lewis opponent sucked, I have seen that fight.

That Fedor reversal sucked too, and his opponent sucked also.
There is a reason you don't see that many time in mma, because it's low percentage.
I am not that surprised a high level judoka could hip bump a tomato can, maybe you are.
And again, pure power, a big explosion, Fedor's speciality.

You have a different criteria for evaluating skills.

Maybe to you wasn't impressing Rodolfo Viera taking down, shutting down, passing, mounting, choking his opponent during his last fight.
Nothing flashy, kinda boring compared to RINGS stuff right?
But his opponent was a ADCC trial winner, a longtime competitive grappler and an experienced mma fighter, to put things in perspective.

> "That Derrick Lewis stuff is actually the proof that it matter who you are fighting, because it's easy to look good against an opponent that sucks.
Still that armbar sucked and Lewis opponent sucked, I have seen that fight."

Ya said Derrick = Fedor "with an armbar"... and now ya´re backpedallin´... right, mate?


> "That Fedor reversal sucked too, and his opponent sucked also.
There is a reason you don't see that many time in mma, because it's low percentage.
And again, pure power, a big explosion, Fedor's speciality.
You have a different criteria for evaluating skills."

Not only pure power & explosion, leverage too.
Well, mate, from my point of view, ya have zero historical perspective, and dont understand skill sets & their evolution.
Ya are absolutely clueless about those skill sets in that transitional era, and try to mask this ignorance by dismissin´them.
Ya claim this Jap is a can? Gimme his name, and tell me about his skill set + which fights ya did watch.?

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Yeah, imagine Fedor, Nogueira and Crocop actually fighting in their early 20ies, still developing, older fighters with actual skills, well rounder, and experienced in mma, instead of a pletora of fighters not having a clue about this new sport, building them up.

A guy like Pavlovitch had to fight an older, experienced Overeem and got his ass whooped, meanwhile the older generation before your heroes were Coleman and Severn, who were let's say "not much skilled", to be nice and not much experienced either.

Alternatively fighter actually fighting each other in their prime years rather than fighting versions well past their best and having promoters pretend that decline doesn't exist to a fanbase dumb enough to believe it.

 

[Bubblun]

> "That Derrick Lewis stuff is actually the proof that it matter who you are fighting, because it's easy to look good against an opponent that sucks.
Still that armbar sucked and Lewis opponent sucked, I have seen that fight."

Ya said Derrick = Fedor "with an armbar"... and now ya´re backpedallin´... right, mate?


> "That Fedor reversal sucked too, and his opponent sucked also.
There is a reason you don't see that many time in mma, because it's low percentage.
You have a different criteria for evaluating skills."

Well, mate, from my point of view, ya have zero historical perspective, and dont understand skill sets & their evolution.
Ya are absolutely clueless about those skill sets in that transitional era, and try to mask this ignorance by dismissin´them.
Ya claim this Jap is a can? Gimme his name, and tell me about his skill sets + which fights ya did watch.?

Jesus Christ, you are a nutcase.

Backpedaling about what, Derick Lewis has NOT a good armbar, for fuck's sake.
Doing something =/= being good at it.

Fedor has a good armbar because he is actually good at it, not because he armbarred some japanese tomato cans 50 pounds lighter than him or some bar room brawler.
And I don't give a damn about their names, I don't have autism bro and I have a damn life.

Continue watch RINGS matches if you like every day, it's you life.

 

[gono btw]

Jesus Christ, you are a nutcase.

Backpedaling about what, Derick Lewis has NOT a good armbar, for fuck's sake.
Doing something =/= being good at it.

Fedor has a good armbar because he is actually good at it, not because he armbarred some japanese tomato cans 50 pounds lighter than him or some bar room brawler.
And I don't give a damn about their names, I don't have autism bro and I have a damn life.

Continue watch RINGS matches if you like every day, it's you life.

Aahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I asked ya the names of Fedor´s opponents in those 10 gifs ( ya claimed ya did watch ALL his fights, many times), and ya ducked...but...but...ya know they were cans...

Ya´re a fraud, mate.

Spoiler

Owned.

By the way, unlike ya, Jesus...

Spoiler

 

[Bubblun]

Alternatively fighter actually fighting each other in their prime years rather than fighting versions well past their best and having promoters pretend that decline doesn't exist to a fanbase dumb enough to believe it.

Yeah, imagine Fedor, Crocop, Nogueira having to deal with the equivalent of 40 yo Cormier, 37 yo Stipe, 39 yo Overeem instead of Coleman.

Because that was the previous generation of your Pride heroes.
You watch the 2000 Pride GP and for the most part is a bunch of wrestlers trying to neck crank each other.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Yeah, imagine Fedor, Crocop, Nogueira having to deal with the equivalent of 40 yo Cormier, 37 yo Stipe, 39 yo Overeem instead of Coleman.

Because that was the previous generation of your Pride heroes.
You watch the 2000 Pride GP and for the most part is a bunch of wrestlers trying to neck crank each other.

Who's rep was built on beating Coleman? he was considered a decent win but far from the best.

 

[Bubblun]

Who's rep was built on beating Coleman? he was considered a decent win but far from the best.

I remember that when Nogueira was fighting him, Quadros was saying Coleman is the number 1 guy in the world.
You know the phrase "to be the best you have to beat the best"? Coleman was the best at the time.

At least on paper, because Quadros was way ahead of his time and was trying to make sense of all that circus having a legit ranking system and the like.
Basically Quadros is the sole reason why you Pride nut huggers all talk about "xxx ranked fighter", "in his prime", and stuff like that, while nobody gave a damn at the time, including the promoters.
Basically Quadros has ruined my whole existence in this forum, arguing with Pride nut huggers in 2019, fuck my life.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I remember that when Nogueira was fighting him, Quadros was saying Coleman is the number 1 guy in the world.
You know the phrase "to be the best you have to beat the best"? Coleman was the best at the time.

At least on paper, because Quadros was way ahead of his time and was trying to make sense of all that circus having a legit ranking system and the like.
Basically Quadros is the sole reason why you Pride nut huggers all talk about "xxx ranked fighter", "in his prime", and stuff like that, while nobody gave a damn at the time, including the promoters.
Basically Quadros is the reason to ruin my whole existence in this forum, arguing with Pride nut huggers in 2019, fuck my life.

Coleman probably was the #1 guy in the world coming off of the GP(and beating Igor in it) but not a very strong #1 and as HW really came together very quickly that win diminished in importance afterwards. By the end of Pride I would say Nogs wins over Crocop, Barnett, Herring x 2, Sergei and Werdum would all definitely be considered better than Coleman.

Honestly though Coleman in 2001 was much closer to his peak form than a lot of fighters we see today at HW.

 

[Here's the thing]

Yeah, imagine Fedor, Crocop, Nogueira having to deal with the equivalent of 40 yo Cormier, 37 yo Stipe, 39 yo Overeem instead of Coleman.

Because that was the previous generation of your Pride heroes.
You watch the 2000 Pride GP and for the most part is a bunch of wrestlers trying to neck crank each other.

Here's why you're an idiot. Because any jackass can discredit past fighters by talking about how everyone they beat sucked. All the people the top guys back then beat are completely washed up and irrelevant now. In 7 years, another idiot will take your place and trash DC, and Stipe. Because in 7 years, both will be retired, both may have losses to shitty opponents, and both will have resumes that don't look like much because they guys they beat will be completely washed up and irrelevant.

It's just so weak, and cheap to give credit to a guy and pretend they're better just because they are still on top and past greats have fallen off. But like I said, you will continue to do it. And if you don't some other clown will come along and do it for you. The truth is, you have no idea how a Prime Fedor would do against Stipe or DC, but they have not shown anything that would make a smart MMA fan think they'd crush Fedor. If anything, Fedor would crush them. Even if he didn't crush them, the fight would definitely be competitive.

 

[Here's the thing]

Agree, but he isn't half as good as you think he is.

He was as good as everyone thought he was at the time. And at the time, he was the greatest. To this day, nobody has had more excitement surrounding their prime reign than Fedor did. Everyone knew he was the greatest fighter in the world, and everyone knows that to this day, he is certainly the greatest HW of all time. He's also the greatest fighter EVER to many. His mistake was fighting past his prime, way past his prime. That is a mistake GSP did not make.

 

[Bubblun]

Here's why you're an idiot. Because any jackass can discredit past fighters by talking about how everyone they beat sucked. All the people the top guys back then beat are completely washed up and irrelevant now. In 7 years, another idiot will take your place and trash DC, and Stipe. Because in 7 years, both will be retired, both may have losses to shitty opponents, and both will have resumes that don't look like much because they guys they beat will be completely washed up and irrelevant.

It's just so weak, and cheap to give credit to a guy and pretend they're better just because they are still on top and past greats have fallen off. But like I said, you will continue to do it. And if you don't some other clown will come along and do it for you. The truth is, you have no idea how a Prime Fedor would do against Stipe or DC, but they have not shown anything that would make a smart MMA fan think they'd crush Fedor. If anything, Fedor would crush them. Even if he didn't crush them, the fight would definitely be competitive.

Here's the thing, you have to take in mind this whole thread, not me.
Have you read the OP? Because the whole purpose of this thread is trashing current fighters to say your heroes of the past were better, right after a big heavyweight fight.

Like damn, I am one of the few giving props to the current guys.
Do you understand that?

Being a fighter in 2019 is quite demoralizing, when you know you will never be loved like the fighters from 10-15 years ago in "hardcore" mma internet forums.
You get paid more though, and you have access to better training and likely are a better fighter.

 

[Bubblun]

Coleman probably was the #1 guy in the world coming off of the GP(and beating Igor in it) but not a very strong #1 and as HW really came together very quickly that win diminished in importance afterwards. By the end of Pride I would say Nogs wins over Crocop, Barnett, Herring x 2, Sergei and Werdum would all definitely be considered better than Coleman.

Honestly though Coleman in 2001 was much closer to his peak form than a lot of fighters we see today at HW.

"Peak form" Coleman was a bad mma fighter, if you watch him with today eyes.
His skills lacked, big time.

Old Cormier would push his shit in, if the magically fought.

The point is, it was easy to get to the top as a 20-something years old when the older guys you had to face literally created this sport.

 

[gono btw]

Like damn, I am one of the few giving props to the current guys.
Do you understand that?

Being a fighter in 2019 is quite demoralizing, when you know you will never be loved like the fighters from 10-15 years ago in "hardcore" mma internet forums.
You get paid more though, and you have access to better training and likely are a better fighter.

Ya did much more than that, dear friend...

IIRC, ya did say once that:
"Fury would literally destroy Ali"..
"Current NBA players would destroy Jordan"

Remember?

 

[Bubblun]

Ya did much more than that, dear friend...

IIRC, ya did say once that:
"Fury would literally destroy Ali"..
"Current NBA players would destroy Jordan"

Remember?

View attachment 637823

About Fury destroying Ali, I would repeat it without a problem.
He is a more skilled, bigger version of Ali.

Ali said the same thing about fighters of previous eras.



Can't fight where he said that because the video got taken down, but it was this interview/discussion with Cus D'Amato.
I am going to find it.


About Jordan and basketball, I have never watched a basketball match in my life and I don't plan to, I don't know where you got that.
I only know Jordan because of Space Jam.
But if I have to bet, I am betting current players are better.
I know about soccer, current players are a lot better.

 

[gono btw]

About Fury destroying Ali, I would repeat it without a problem.
He is a more skilled, bigger version of Ali.

Ali said the same thing about fighters of previous eras.



Can't fight where he said that because the video got taken down, but it was this interview/discussion with Cus D'Amato.
I am going to find it.


About Jordan and basketball, I have never watched a basketball match in my life and I don't plan to, I don't know where you got that.
I only know Jordan because of Space Jam.
But if I have to bet, I am betting current players are better.
I know about soccer, current players are a lot better.

And Thus Spoke Our Beloved Bublun...

A legit poster, otaku, manga-lover, with legit knowledge...

 

[Bubblun]

And Thus Spoke Our Beloved Bublun...

A legit poster, otaku, manga-lover, with legit knowledge...

View attachment 637835

Ah well, then we have to believe Gonobtw, Sherdog resident RINGS expert.


Quote form Ali

"... we watched these fight films of these old fighters ... they were good for their time but not today ... fighters are better today, everything is better, food is better, the milk is better, people grow strong and bigger ... YOU CAN'T COMPARE ME/RANK ME WITH THESE PEOPLE AND THEY CAN'T BE RANKED WITH ME, BUT RANK ME WITH THOSE YOU HAVE NOW ..."



He was also comparing himself to being a fast supersonic jet to fighters of previous eras being slow cars.

Link got taken down, but you can find it on DVD if you want.
I say that since you will bring that up for ages, about Ali and Fury.
Because you have a damn good selective memory, since you are autistic.

I remember the first time you quoted me, one of the usual discussions about fighters from the old times being better, and current fighters sucking.
I said the obvious and you got MAD.
Now you have changed your story, it's about "fight configuration", and all that crap.
Because you would rather eat a shit that admitting ground fighting got a lot better since the early 2000.


Imagine believing that, that a sport very complex, peaked like 5-10 years since it was invented.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

"Peak form" Coleman was a bad mma fighter, if you watch him with today eyes.
His skills lacked, big time.

Old Cormier would push his shit in, if the magically fought.

The point is, it was easy to get to the top as a 20-something years old when the older guys you had to face literally created this sport.

When Coleman was at the top isn't what were generally reffering to when we talk about a golden era of HW, granted some of the big names of that golden era were fighting by that point but the division was still very disorganised and as I said Coleman as the #1 HW wasn't really a sign of dominance from him, it was mostly down to beating Igor.

Things very quickly shifted in the period around 01-03 as the division came together and Coleman was not considered one of the very best HW's anymore.

As to how he'd do today yeah Cormier would be a big favourite same with Stipe but honestly their are quite a few HW's around these days with very questionable grappling and I could see Coleman threatening them and being more relevant now than he was in the mid 00's.

 

[arrmike]

Your opinion is equally as worthless to me. Cain is a 10x better fighter than Coleman ever was. That's why Nog was helpless against him after looking good against Randy. Cain murders ANY version of Nog.

Cain was better than Coleman, true. But Coleman at that point is still a good win on the resume, and Nog dominated him standing, whiffed in a hk and subbed him immediately. Dominated him like nobody ever had before.

All you need to know about Nog is his Herring fights. First fight was competitive but not really close. Second fight a sub win. Third fight Nog ate a massive hk that really signaled the decline of his career. Even though he won the fight it was the start of his steep decline. And it was in the ufc. Against a fighter he had handily beat twice in pride.

 

[gono btw]

Ah well, then we have to believe Gonobtw, Sherdog resident RINGS expert.


I remember the first time you quoted me, one of the usual discussions about fighters from the old times being better, and current fighters sucking.
I said the obvious and you got MAD.
Now you have changed your story, it's about "fight configuration", and all that crap.
Because you would rather eat a shit that admitting ground fighting got a lot better since the early 2000.


Imagine believing that, that a sport very complex, peaked like 5-10 years since it was invented.

Who tried to bluff this thread with some Rings shit (Bublun´s Rings "knowledge" = ONE fight), mate? Gono or Bublun?

Meanwhile, as usual, ya dont understand the historical perspective behind this Ali quote...
It is what it is.

In time: nah, that shit was not invented in the 1990s, but I doubt ya know what Im talkin´about...

Spoiler

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-part-9-bjj-during-the-vale-tudo-era.3826197/

Tbh, this debate is somehow a lil bit too complex for ya, mate...
Ya have a pretty simplistic understandin´of this evolution.

In short, it´s not about current fighters bein´worse or better than those legends.

No.

It´s about Fight Configuration & Rule Set, and the way fighters adapt and shape their skill set accordin´ to these 2 parameters´ evolution.

And I also remember your laughable assessment about Volkov´s ground game too...
So much fun, right, mate?