CC Has maybe a 5% chance of knocking him out. And that’s being generous. He’s getting thrown to the mat and getting the shit kicked out of him. Cain Also fucking brutalize a prime Junior on the feet in the second and third fight..
CC It’s not very tough mentally. He was basically a front runner. When you watch his fights if it was going great yeah he would dominate. But when he met resistance he will usually fold up like a cheap suit. You can see all of his mental weakness is in the UFC. He was broken mentally in a couple of fights. He would need to get the knockout really early. Otherwise he gets broken.
Lmao, you posted exactly 1 gif of Fedor not being able to escape while on his back (Bigfoot fight). Every other time he either swept or subbed his opponent.
It's wasn't an isolated event? Then please, list all the times Fedor was full mounted and GnP severely prior the BF fight, and list all the times Cormier has been able to full mount and GnP other grapplers
Anderson is better than Fedor on his back? lmao.
-Anderson ate hundreds of punches vs. Chael, he was full mounted in the rematch
-He was full mounted and GnP by an exahusted Travis Lutter who could barely throw punches
-He ate several bombs vs. Weidman. Couldn't get up until Weidman went for a leglock. Couldn't get up at all in the rematch.
-He was taken down, GnP and subbed by Takase
-Taken down and controlled by Chonan for a good part of the fight
-Taken down and controlled by Okami (pulled an illegal move out of desperation)
-Taken down and controlled by Hendo
etc.
Anderson was so weak on his back, he often had to wait until rounds ended in order to do anything. Case point, the Sonnen/Hendo fights. He was mounted repeatedly, he ate hundreds of punches, he was subbed…that's the guy Cormier couldn't do anything to. And somehow he's better than Fedor, who in 10 years didn't receive a significant amount of damage while on his back, wasn't subbed and was able to sweep or sub anyone who put him on his back, LOL.
Here's something for you to meditate: Anderson took more punches on his back in the first Sonnen fight than Fedor did in 10 years. Good luck at making a case for Anderson.
You don't need to bring old ass Anderson fights to discredit him.
I just need my pair of eyes to see Anderson being way more active on the ground than Fedor, and having a better guard (and by the way, why are suddenly interested in talking about Anderson, maybe you feel he is a potential Fedor competitor for GOAT discussions?)
For the 100th time, I don't give a fuck about GOAT discussions, Anderson, Fedor or whatever, so don't make it about "my fighter" against "your fighter", because you are talking to the wrong person.
Your whole existence in this forum is discrediting other fighters to proving your hero Fedor is the GOAT.
You are a sad fella, you know that right?
Let's put it this way, so you can't hide under straw hats.
YOU POST a fight, or a gif or whatever about Fedor doing guard retention, shrimping, sweeping, basically Fedor doing something that isn't an armbar or a bridge reversal, SO EVERYBODY CAN SEE.
Because, I am repeating myself again, Fedor ain't half as good on the ground as nut huggers like yourself claim him to be.
People shit on Derrick Lewis, right?
Then tell me the difference between how Fedor escapes from the ground and what Lewis do.
Give me gifs, or fights obviously, because I feel I am like the only one here that is trying to give proofs meanwhile you Fedor nut huggers are sucking each other's dicks.
Virtually the same.
That's all athleticism and power.
Fedor is Derrick Lewis on the ground, 30-40 pound lighter, with an armbar.
hmmm...yeahhh..
Some serious lack of historical perspective, & understandin´of those technical sequences on the ground...
I/ Rings:
"Arona was 33 pounds lighter than Fedor, he was a small middleweight in that fight, by today standards.
Yes he was a good grappler, but I know you meant Mark Kerr when you said "good wrestlers".
He never beat Mark Kerr in ADCC, he beat Fat Kerr."
The thing is...in Rings, the OW configuration was balanced by the Fight Configuration & Rule set.
That´s why ya had undersized dudes like Hendo, Arona, Tamura, Kanehara... etc.. who were truly competitive there.
"Watch Fedor reactions on the ground.
On the ground the main reason Fedor was able to reverse Arona was
because the referee was putting pressure on Arona saying ACTION every second Arona
was not doing something, which is crazy (stupid rules in an early undeveloped mma environment).
Since the rules didn't permit strike to the face on the ground, Arona was forced to go for an americana,
a low percentage submission, because there aren't really many things you can do on mount top.
Fedor knew that, and Arona was really light, so he was waiting for that americana to do his bridge."
Several inaccuracies there:
> Rings was everythin´ but "an early undeveloped mma environment", mate...
That was actually the...opposite...
In Japan, Rings and then Pride were the results of an evolution from the Pro Wrasslin´worl, the BJJ world collidin´ (for the 1st time) with a new wave of sambo dudes who would have access to this new market thanks to the end of the Cold War.
This scene saw an influx of legit ATG grappling encyclopedias, like Volk (Ivan Gomes, Gotch b4) etc..
This progressive teaching led to the birth of transitionnal Org. like Rings or Pancrase,
which made an entire generation work on its ground game (strikers like Tiger White, Mezger, Semmy for instance)
See, each org tries to target a market, promoting a certain type of 'entertainment' according to its core market.
This choice predetermines what kind of ruleset will be effective or not under this fight configuration.
Therefore, Rings or Early Pancrase were no less MMA than current UFC.
Early Pancrase tried to promote a new evolution, more technical, with fighters working on their
ground game and trying to build a submission game (that´s why GNP was forbidden, great idea...).
Sergio Batarelli, IVC promotor, said that the current UFC´s fight configuration is a "joke", "much too watered down compared to the real Vale Tudo tradition."
"Real MMA"... Have you watched the Vale Tudo/NHB scene? in the 1980s - early 1990s?
There was absolutely no "MMA" in it. It was pure, gruelling GNP with headbutts all over the place.
You would see more basic GNP and headbutts, even from strikers and BJJ dudes...
Your current UFC is in-between, due to its fight configuration and ruleset: not really "real fighting" a la Vale Tudo, and not really "pure" MMA a la Rings/Pancrase, since the grappling level has become so limited.
In particular, the prohibition of GNP was a sublime idea since it enabled fighters to showcase their grappling & submission skills, or work on them, if they were pure strikers...
GNP via hammer fists (those infamous 'gorilla' punches), a modern evolution? Rather ironic, no?
A whole generation of talented LHWs & HWs enhanced their skill set thanks to this specific Fight Configuration & Rule Set.
Consequently, one might argue that Rings was actually an anomaly, historically: this kind of modern evolution shouldnt have happened while the sport was still 'immature' (started in the 1930s, but was still limited to Brazil till the 1970s-90s...).
Rings is technically from the ...future...
> "Arona was forced to go for an americana".
Nah, mate... Tiger was not 'forced' to do anythin´.
He had multiple options, since the very beginnin´of each technical sequence on the ground:
1st of all, he was not 'forced' to go systematically for the full mount.
He did so coz, well, he was a rookie then and was actually respondin´ to his corner´s request
(@ 8mn52 [2nd Rd] [> see the 19mn41 version]:
ya can hear Sperry urgin´him to pass Fedor´s guard.
Why, may I ask ya?
Coz good ol´Zen Machine Sperry was still prisoner of the good ol´ Vale Tudo Paradigms:
TD > Secure Position > Stabilize Position > Guard-passin´> Full Mount > Blows/RNC
Zen Machine was actually failin´ him since, jus´like ya, he failed to understand the qualitative evolution
from a NHB Fight Configuration to a truly Modern MMA environment.
It is what it is.
The BJJ Community was slowly progressin´to new approaches, & brilliant guards like Nog´s would finally emerge (Allan Goes too...)
Historically, one of NHB/MMA´s Golden Rules: @ OW, the undersized fighter shall not go for the full mount.
See:
> Hoyler vs Sano [Pride]
> Wand vs Hunto [Pride]
....& the adjustment [side mount] made by Mousasi vs the same... Hunto [Dream]
Was he forced? Was full mount his only path?
See what Big Nog did in the same tournament against Tamura:
Same progression to the full mount, apparently..but..out of nowhere, Nog surprises him with a leg lock attack.
Brilliant.
And this was what the [educated] audience was expectin´: creative transitions on the ground.
Nog didnt get the leg lock, but created conditions for a multi-dimensional offensive game & potential openings that left Tamura (who was no slouch on the ground:
think about it, was only subbed once in his Rings career, fightin´@ OW, & twice in a different Fight Configuration: against the same Nog & Yoshida, in Pride)
...disorientated.
Later in the fight, again Nog made transitions on the ground that surprised Tamura, coz of his non-obvious early attempts.
Check Tamura´s face at the end of the fight: neither sad, nor angry with himself, as he would normally be.
Simply 'bluffed' by Nog´s brilliance on the ground.
Tiger´s very next fight in Rings was against..Kanehara...& guess how he won, this time...by kneebar...
Finally creative...
2nd: Nah, keylock was not his only option after he got the full mount, consequently he was not 'forced' to [systematically] go for it.
> He could go for an armbar:
The Ref. kindah fooked up @ 10mn58 Rd 2: he stopped the action while Tiger was visibly goin´for an armbar... This [potential] technical sequence alone denies your claim about his 'limited' options [keylock] in the full mount.
> He could have baited Fedor durin´one of those bridges & gone for a rollin´armbar...(high level move on the ground, never saw Tiger goin´for one durin´his whole career...but...could have learnt with his teammate Nog, one of his go-to-moves... )
See @ 17mn20 [Rd 3]:
> Ya said: "As far as standing grappling, Fedor doesn't wrestle.
Offensively he doesn't go for single or double legs, but he doesn't defend takedowns either for the most part."
> About Fedor bein´kindah 'reckless' on the feet against Arona (clearly outgrappled in the 1st Rd):
Potential explanation: a young Fedor might have been too 'emotional' & was basically relyin´on haymakers to beat him, since Arona had jus´beaten Kopylov, one of his mentors in RTT, the fight b4...
> About Fedor´s 'posture' on his back: In Rings:
Specifically, coz of its Rule Set where TDs were not decisively rewarded, TDD was not that essential like in current UFC.
The Ref. would give some 30 sec. for the guy on top to be creative on the ground, then would call for the stand-up.
That´s why most competitors would kindah 'weather' the storm, let the guy on top try to solve the 'riddle' (no easy task to set a transition to a potential sub with no GNP...).
That was Rings´ modus operandi, on the ground, basically...
Unless ya had an exceptional guard like Nog´s, or TK´s... (Kanehara was pretty deceptive too, by the way...)
Lmao, you posted exactly 1 gif of Fedor not being able to escape while on his back (Bigfoot fight). Every other time he either swept or subbed his opponent.
It's wasn't an isolated event? Then please, list all the times Fedor was full mounted and GnP severely prior the BF fight, and list all the times Cormier has been able to full mount and GnP other grapplers
Anderson is better than Fedor on his back? lmao.
-Anderson ate hundreds of punches vs. Chael, he was full mounted in the rematch
-He was full mounted and GnP by an exahusted Travis Lutter who could barely throw punches
-He ate several bombs vs. Weidman. Couldn't get up until Weidman went for a leglock. Couldn't get up at all in the rematch.
-He was taken down, GnP and subbed by Takase
-Taken down and controlled by Chonan for a good part of the fight
-Taken down and controlled by Okami (pulled an illegal move out of desperation)
-Taken down and controlled by Hendo
etc.
Anderson was so weak on his back, he often had to wait until rounds ended in order to do anything. Case point, the Sonnen/Hendo fights. He was mounted repeatedly, he ate hundreds of punches, he was subbed…that's the guy Cormier couldn't do anything to. And somehow he's better than Fedor, who in 10 years didn't receive a significant amount of damage while on his back, wasn't subbed and was able to sweep or sub anyone who put him on his back, LOL.
Here's something for you to meditate: Anderson took more punches on his back in the first Sonnen fight than Fedor did in 10 years. Good luck at making a case for Anderson.
In Pride: Hunto fight, for instance: full mount(s) easily explainable.
> "Fedor didn't beat Noguera being better on the ground, Nogueira was lights years ahead of Fedor on the ground, Fedor beat Nogueira punching him in the face very hard, something he is very good at."
Agreed about Nog bein´that good.
Meanwhile, as Frank Shamrock said after his Cung Le fight, "it´s a mental thing. ", which means u no longer have the mental discipline to follow a gameplan. Why? Coz u stayed in the game too long.
Remember how Fedor attacked Nog´s guard... He was following a disciplined gameplan, PACING his bursts.. watching for his arms & Nog´s grip... goin´ in & out, without losing the control...
Was really more than doin´ damage with hard punches...
Let's pretend Volk Han is bullshitting, so the fight outcome was legit.
You have a promotion that doesn't not allow strikes on the face on the ground, grappling maneuvers don't score points, only submission attempt score points.
That's sounds awesome, on paper.
Too bad that not every submission attempt is equal and the judges apparently didn't know that or had the ability to see that.
Because trying to go for an hail mary guillotine that promptly your opponent uses to pass your guard and mount you, that shouldn't score you nothing.
Actually in every mma or grappling competition that matters, the opponent score, multiple times.
Same thing with a crappy foot lock attempt, that shouldn't score.
Having a mma promotion that is only about submission attempts is crap, sorry but that's the truth.
Plus the referee, judges didn't know what they were watching, that's even crappier.
Not many years ago there was this submission only grappling tournament craze, initially even no time limit.
Sub only, no time limit grappling, that's sound badass, right?
The opposite of the complex, limited rules or a IBJJF, IJF or wrestling tournament.
Too bad that if you eliminate points in grappling competitions, nobody would pass guard, because passing guard is hard against a good opponent and without scoring nobody has the incentives to do that.
What happened is you eliminate points, you eliminate guard passing, sweep, and escapes and defence for those, so those competitions reverted to a leg locking competition, since the first thing, and only thing, available without passing is the opponent's legs.
Most of the matches were boring stall fest, or staring matches.
Remember Brendan Schaub vs Cyborg Abreu?
Quickly everybody realized that sub only no time limits competitions sucked and were the opposite of what people initially thought.
There is a reason why there are scores in grappling competitions, because that's the best method to see who is really better.
I take you down, pass your guard, mount you, I am better then you, 100%.
You submits me with a flying armbar out nowhere, a leglock out nowhere, hail mary stuff, you proved that you could surprise me with something, but you didn't prove you are better than me.
Regarding Arona.
It isn't about Arona training with Mario Sperry, and Sperry being an old school guy (also Nogueira trained with Sperry and Sperry was damn good by the way, one of the best of his era), is about what you consider ground fighting.
BJJ (on top) is ultimately about taking down the opponent, passing, mounting/back taking submitting, and definitely is BJJ in mma.
Arona did that because that's what he was supposed to do.
If the rules forces me to not do that or do not give me props for that, the rules sucks, in grappling and even more in mma (actually I have no idea why RINGS matches are on professional mma records, at this point they should put Eddie Bravo Combat JiuJitsu in them, it's way more violent).
You see all the jiu jitsu guys in mma, even those who aren't famous to play a fancy game in jiu jitsu, going for the take down, pass, mount.
Every single one of the bjj guys into mma, they are all about the slow, methodical pressure passing into mount/back game, to finish is almost always an arm triangle and rear strangle.
You said you could go for an armbar or a leg lock (!!!!) from mount.
Yes you could, if you are insane or you are fighting a 11 years old or a 80 years old grandpa.
To have an armbar you must have the opponent's arm across the center line, then transition to the armbar without losing control.
This is a great instructional on that topic
But the arm triangle is also there, and is the safer, higher percentage choice all the time.
That's why 100% of the times in mma you see 3 finishes from the mount, the arm triangle, GnP or the opponent turns desperately and get choked.
I bet this is boring for you.
And this is the conclusion, no offense dude, but you have this strange idea that doing a fancy submission is impressive, more advanced and so RINGS guys were more skilled compared to the guys of today, "RINGS from the future".
Doing a leg lock from the mount isn't impressive, is dumb as fuck.
It only works if the guy you are fighting is so much worse than you, that you could do ANYTHING to him.
If you could leglock him from the mount in a mma fight, you could also put him in a gift wrap and removing his nasal hair one by one, ANYTHING.
This is impressive right?
If you could put that Rumina Sato against an opponent from today that is "good" on the ground or even an "old school" guy from the Mario Sperry era, he is getting arm triangle or choked for the back.
TLDR:
- Doing a leg lock, americana, armbar from the mount in mma is dumb as fuck.
- If the rules forces me to do a leg lock, americana, leg lock from the mount, the rules are dumb as fuck.
- Doing a flying armbar, flying leg lock or fancy stuff isn't more impressive or a prove of better skills than winning by taking down the opponent, passing, mounting him and choking him, Demian Maia style.
This is Arona being forced by a dumb referee, applying a dumb ruleset, doing a dumb americana from the mount.
Fedor, who isn't dumb, exploded at the right time and got away.
Nothing technical by the way, just timing and explosion.
But this wasn't the point is was making at the beginning when you quoted me.
I wasn't talking about RINGS, it's 2019, I don't give a damn about RINGS, you made me talk about RINGS.
I was saying all Fedor did on his back was bridging and armbars, and the Arona fight was a good example of that.
Without RINGS ruleset Arona would have potentially controlled Fedor on the ground more, that was the point I was making.
TLDR:
Doing a leg lock, americana, armbar from the mount is dumb as fuck.
if the rules forces me to do a leg lock, americana. leg lock from the mount, the rules are dumb as fuck.
Doing a flying armbar, flying leg lock or fancy stuff isn't more impressive or a prove of better skills than winning by taking down the opponent, passing, mountign him and choking him, Demian Maia style.
hmmm... nah, mate, ya understood absolutely nuthin´...
I suggest ya read again.
> Never said anythin´about leglock from full mount.
> armbar from full mount was a reality, like it or not, nuthin´ dumb.
And ya didnt counter the technical sequence where Arona was about to attempt one, I presume ya didnt notice it.
> about rules "forcin´": again ya understood nuthin´: rules were forcin´ya to be creative, especially when it comes to transitions.
Note: dont drop youtube vidz about technical sequences not related to the fight, focus on those that did happen durin´the fight(s).
> Rings was not solely about submission attempts, and even if it were, I would have no probz about it.
Technical sequences like reversals were rewarded too.
> About the qualitative difference between BJJ guards in that transitional era: read again what I said [modern approaches Nog/Allan Goes... adapted to different Fight Configurations & Rule Sets]
Most important: this Arona vs Fedor fight was tricky to score & to assess.
I presume ya´re only interested in this fight coz it kindah gives ya an angle of attack against them Fedor´s fanbase.
Pretty safe to say that it´s the only Rings fight ya ever watched, right, mate?
About this fight & his context, especially about Volk Han, this interview is problematic, & pretty safe to say that ya didnt really assess it.
Meanwhile, IIRC, ya said other things about Fedor not able to wrestle, no TDD, no guard-passin´, flat on his back, only explosin´, Arona outgrapplin´him (I showed that he only outgrappled him solely in the 1st Rd) ...etc...
Generalizations, Im afraid... > Ya cant assess a skill set without acknowledgin´ its evolution, which means havin´a legit knowledge about all the fights/technical sequences.
hmmm... nah, mate, ya understood absolutely nuthin´...
I suggest ya read again.
> Never said anythin´about leglock from full mount.
> armbar from full mount was a reality, like it or not, nuthin´ dumb.
And ya didnt counter the technical sequence where Arona was about to attempt one, I presume ya didnt notice it.
> about rules "forcin´": again ya understood nuthin´: rules were forcin´ya to be creative, especially when it comes to transition.
Note: dont drop youtube vidz about technical sequences not related to the fight, focus on those that did happen durin´the fight.
> Rings was not solely about submission attempts, and even if it were, I would have no probz about it.
Technical sequences like reversals were rewarded too.
> About the qualitative difference between BJJ guards in that transitional era: read again what I said [modern approaches Nog/Allan Goes... adapted to different Fight Configurations & Rule Sets]
Most important: this Arona vs Fedor fight was tricky to score & to assess.
I presume ya´re only interested in this fight coz it kindah gives ya an angle of attack against them Fedor´s fanbase.
Pretty safe to say that it´s the only Rings fight ya ever watched, right, mate?
About this fight & his context, especially about Volk Han, this interview is problematic, & pretty safe to say that ya didnt really assess it.
Meanwhile, IIRC, ya said other things about Fedor not able to wrestle, flat on his back, only explosin´...etc...
Generalizations, Im afraid... > Ya cant assess a skill set without acknowledgin´ its evolution, which means havin´a legit knowledge about all the fights/technical sequences.
"Without having legit knowledge", dude I am a brown belt in bjj, I have competed against guys that are in the UFC, Bellator today, I am the only guy here that has a clue of what he is talking about.
I can actually break down what's happening in the fight and tell you the reasoning behind that.
Not to pump myself up, I don't give a damn, but that's the truth.
Are you really sure you know what are you talking about?
Have you trained in your life?
Because you can't understand what's happening if you don't have a clue.
No offense, I appreciate your efforts and your dedication to RINGS and old school mma, I really do, but WTF!
I have watched RINGS fights, the big names and stuff, but I am not obsessed like yourself.
And damn are you obsessed with RINGS boy.
You can bet I have watched every single Fedor and Minotauro fight over the years, multiple times, but fuck, I don't rewatch those old ass fights every day like yourself.
You say I have nitpicked Fedor in bad spots, unfairly?
Than give me gifs, or full fights of Fedor doing more than bridges and armbars from the ground, I am still waiting.
Give me Fedor doing guard passes, technical sweeps, give me something.
It's easy for you, you watched every single fight, right? You are an encyclopedia of obscure old fights.
The buffoon Claude said I was talking about "isolated events" meanwhile nobody gave me evidence of that.
Fedor doing a double leg in his first fight is an "isolated event", give me Fedor doing more double legs.
I am not the guy that is nit picking here.
"I presume ya´re only interested in this fight coz it kindah gives ya an angle of attack against them Fedor´s fanbase."
I used as evidence every single fight Fedor was on his back, that I can remember, of top of my head.
Arona, Sonnen, Bigfoot, Coleman, Randleman, Nogueira, go check my older posts.
Not many fights Fedor was on his back, Fedor is 38-6, he is damn good, I am not saying Fedor isn't good.
All I am saying is he isn't as good as the nut huggers claim.
Clause made a thread about Fedor 100% armbarring Cormier.
Like armbarring Hong Man Choi and Coleman aren't "isolated events".
"Without having legit knowledge", dude I am a brown belt in bjj, I have competed against guys that are in the UFC, Bellator today, I am the only guy here that has a clue of what he is talking about.
I can actually break down what's happening and tell you the reasoning behind that.
Not to pump myself up,I don't give a damn, but that's the truth.
Are you really sure you know what are you talking about?
Have you trained in your life?
Because you can't understand what's happening if you don't have a clue.
No offense, I appreciate your efforts and your dedication to RINGS and old school mma, I really do, but WTF!
I have watched RINGS fights, the big names and stuff, but I am not obsessed like yourself.
And damn are you obsessed with RINGS boy.
You can bet I have watched every single Fedor and Minotauro fight over the years, multiple times, but fuck, I don't rewatch those old ass fights every day like yourself.
You say I have nitpicked Fedor in bad spots, unfairly?
Than give me gifs, or full fights of Fedor doing more than bridges and armbars from the ground, I am still waiting.
Give me Fedor doing guard passes, technical sweeps, give me something.
It's easy for you, you watched every single fight, right? You are an encyclopedia of obscure old fights.
The buffon Claude said I was talking about "isolated events" meanwhile nobody gave me evidence of that.
Fedor doing a double leg in his first fight is an "isolated event", give me Fedor doing more double legs.
"I presume ya´re only interested in this fight coz it kindah gives ya an angle of attack against them Fedor´s fanbase."
I used as evidence every single fight Fedor was on his back, that I can remember, of top of my head.
Arona, Sonnen, Bigfoot, Coleman, Randleman, Nogueira, go check my older posts.
Not many fights Fedor was on his back, Fedor is 38-6, he is damn good, I am not saying Fedor isn't good.
All I say is he isn't as good as the nut huggers claim.
Clause made a thread about Fedor 100% armbarring Cormier.
Like armbarring Hong Man Choi and Coleman aren't "isolated events".
ah..now ya came back with an emotional rant, mate... goin´fulll ad hominen wont help ya here...
Gono doesnt give a fook that ya´re a brown or purple bet, who cares?
Gono´s only interested in technical sequences & evolution of skill sets.
That´s why I assume ya´ve never really watched those Rings fights, except this Arona one coz it fits your agenda, right, mate?
Technically, ya countered literally nuthin´here, while I did counter most of your arguments with assessments related to specific technical sequences.
The only thing ya did is tryin´to get some help from youtube random, non-related vidz.
It is what it is.
Show me technical sequences, & then ya´ll be taken seriously.
Do ya want me to drop more technical sequences showin´that he could wrestle,had TDD, didnt get outgrappled by Arona in the last 2 Rds, did go for an armbar in the full mount etc ?
Right now, on your side, it´s pretty weak, when it comes to technical sequences, and your knowledge about the context is rather mediocre [see the Volk Han context].
CC It’s not very tough mentally. He was basically a front runner. When you watch his fights if it was going great yeah he would dominate. But when he met resistance he will usually fold up like a cheap suit. You can see all of his mental weakness is in the UFC. He was broken mentally in a couple of fights. He would need to get the knockout really early. Otherwise he gets broken.
Crocop got pressured many times and the most common result was his opponent being brutally finished.
He wasn't as tough as JDS(one of the toughest guys ever at HW in his primet) its true but really that didn't help Jnr much in the rematches did it? technically Mirko is a vastly better counter fighter than JDS though, Jnr has always been best when he has distance and time to work, Mirko could and did pick out deadly counters to guys pressuring him.
Look at the Kongo fight were Cain marching forward gets dropped by a straight punch multiple times, Mirko had the best straight counter in MMA history and didn't give up easy takedown like Kongo.
This is Arona being forced by a dumb referee, applying a dumb ruleset, doing a dumb americana from the mount.
Fedor, who isn't dumb, exploded at the right time and got away.
Nothing technical by the way, just timing and explosion.
But this wasn't the point is was making at the beginning when you quoted me.
I wasn't talking about RINGS, it's 2019, I don't give a damn about RINGS, you made me talk about RINGS.
I was saying all Fedor did on his back was bridging and armbars, and the Arona fight was a good example of that.
Without RINGS ruleset Arona would have potentially controlled Fedor on the ground more, that was the point I was making.
Already explained about Arona bein´ "forced" to go for that americana from the mount.> read again.
Meanwhile, ya´re the one who chose this Rings topic, not Gono.
"Without RINGS ruleset Arona would have potentially controlled Fedor on the ground more, that was the point I was making."
> See Wand vs Hunto in Pride, & the technical adjustment made by Mousasi vs the same Hunto in Dream.
What´s your technical assessment of these 2 fights?
Crocop got pressured many times and the most common result was his opponent being brutally finished.
He wasn't as tough as JDS(one of the toughest guys ever at HW in his primet) its true but really that didn't help Jnr much in the rematches did it? technically Mirko is a vastly better counter fighter than JDS though, Jnr has always been best when he has distance and time to work, Mirko could and did pick out deadly counters to guys pressuring him.
Look at the Kongo fight were Cain marching forward gets dropped by a straight punch multiple times, Mirko had the best straight counter in MMA history and didn't give up easy takedown like Kongo.
What caliber of opponents did he show this great heart and mental toughness against in victory? When he came to the UFC he faced their best heavyweights at that time and the results were not pretty. Especially during his initial run. He never never beat a single elite heavyweight in the UFC.
ah..now ya came back with an emotional rant, mate... goin´fulll ad hominen wont help ya here...
Gono doesnt give a fook that ya´re a brown or purple bet, who cares?
Gono´s only interested in technical sequences & evolution of skill sets.
That´s why I assume ya´ve never really watched those Rings fights, except this Arona one coz it fits your agenda, right, mate?
Technically, ya countered literally nuthin´here, while I did counter most of your arguments with assessments related to specific technical sequences.
The only thing ya did is tryin´to get some help from youtube random, non-related vidz.
It is what it is.
Show me technical sequences, & then ya´ll be taken seriously.
Do ya want me to drop more technical sequences showin´that he could wrestle,had TDD, didnt get outgrappled by Arona in the last 2 Rds, did go for an armbar in the full mount etc ?
Right now, on your side, it´s pretty weak, when it comes to technical sequences, and your knowledge about the context is rather mediocre [see the Volk Han context].
Already explained about Arona bein´ "forced" to go for that americana from the mount.> read again.
Meanwhile, ya´re the one who chose this Rings topic, not Gono.
"Without RINGS ruleset Arona would have potentially controlled Fedor on the ground more, that was the point I was making."
> See Wand vs Hunto in Pride, & the technical adjustment made by Mousasi vs the same Hunto in Dream.
What´s your technical assessment of these 2 fights?
Try to go from am armbar from the mount in a mma fight, and then tell us how it goes.
Do it bro, for real, instead of analyzing old fights, go on the mats, get into a real competition, then tell us how it went.
You can start you rant about evolution, Allan Goes, Ebenezer Braza, ... doesn't fucking matter.
Armbars from the mount in mma don't work, period.
If you hit an armbar from the mount in mma, your opponent sucks.
Again, to hit an armbar you need to have one of the opponent's arm across the center line.
Nobody is giving you that on purpose, you have to fight for it.
If you fight for it is better to go for an arm triangle, it's safer, you don't lose position if you mess up.
Result ----> Nobody goes for the armbar from the mount, everybody goes for the arm triangle.
Same thing with americanas and leg locks from the mount.
You can do it? Yes.
It is a good idea to go for it against a good opponent? Fucking no.
And this was true 100 years ago and is still true today.
Try to go from am armbar from the mount in a mma fight, and then tell us how it goes.
Do it bro, for real, instead of analyzing old fights, go on the mats, get into a real competition, then tell us how it went.
You can start you rant about evolution, Allan Goes, Ebenezer Braza, ... doesn't fucking matter.
Armbars from the mount in mma don't work, period.
If you hit an armbar from the mount in mma, you opponent sucks.
Same thing with americanas and leg locks from the mount.
You can do it? Yes.
It is a good idea to go for it against a good opponent? Fucking no.
Nobody talked about leg lock from the [full] mount.
Meanwhile, dont talk about Ebenezer Braga, ya dont even know him or his skill set, dont try 2 pretend now, mate.
Meanwhile, again, ya fail to understand that transitional era from NHB to Rings, that explains specific technical sequences that were relevant back then.
Meanwhile, dont talk about Ebenezer Braga, ya dont even know him or his skill set, dont try 2 pretend now, mate.
Meanwhile, again, ya fail to understand that transitional era from NHB to Rings, that explains specific technical sequences that were relevant back then.
You got me here bro.
I read "armbars from the mount" and I ranted without reading your last post.
But let me say something, I am not a native english speaker, I have already hard time digesting that, but your posts are a pain in the ass to read.
It's not the content, is the grammar and everything.
I just want to scroll and be done with it as fast as I can.
Let's restart again if you want.
Choose a topic, no wall of text for fuck's sake, just few things.
You said you explained Arona going for the americana?
I missed that, tell me again.
You wanted to talk about Mousasi not going for the mount against the bigger Hunt, right?
That's the "evolution" you where talking about?
Arona should have not mounted the bigger Fedor? That was your allusion?
Get to the point, make a statement in proper english, no vague stuff.
If you say vague stuff with your grammar, your point go missing.
What caliber of opponents did he show this great heart and mental toughness against in victory? When he came to the UFC he faced their best heavyweights at that time and the results were not pretty. Especially during his initial run. He never never beat a single elite heavyweight in the UFC.
Guys like Barnett, Herring, Igor, Aleks, Wanderlei, Coleman, etc all pressured Mirko and all of them got destroyed.
By the time of his second run he was clearly on the decline physically, nothing like as fast agile as his best years after a succession of leg injuries.
You got me here bro.
I read "armbars from the mount" and I ranted without reading your last post.
But let me say something, I am not a native english speaker, I have already hard time digesting that, but your posts are a pain in the ass to read.
I just want to scroll and be done with it as fast as I can.
Let's restart again if you want.
Choose a topic, no wall of text for fuck's sake, just few things.
You said you explained Arona going for the americana?
I missed that, tell me again.
You wanted to talk about Mousasi not going for the mount against the bigger Hunt right?
That's the "evolution" you where talking about?
That must be the reason why ya´re not taken seriously, mate.
And now ya´re tryin´ 2 save face, right?
> I´ve already explained that Arona shit.
More: I took time to assess [almost] all your arguments (didnt assess the ones about Fedor & wrestlin´, TDs, guard-passin´... etc... coz was aleady a TLDR & the post was limited to 10 gifs; meanwile, makin´ gifs... takes time).
You? You had no real rebuttals, only generalizations & random youtube vidz to help your case and allow ya to skip any legit technical assessment.
Gonna be sincere with ya, mate:
1- Ya have limited knowledge about that transitional era, and globally, no historical perspective.
2- Knowin´that, ya tried to 'bluff' this thread with that Arona fight.
3- Ya tried to go full 'Volk Han' about that Arona fight... Well, let me tell ya: if ya dont know about the context [Volk Han, Maeda, Nikolai Pitkov, Zouev], jus´stay quiet.
That must be the reason why ya´re not taken seriously, mate.
And now ya´re tryin´ 2 save face, right?
> I´ve already explained that Arona shit.
More: I took time to assess [almost] all your arguments (didnt assess the ones about Fedor & wrestlin´, TDs, guard-passin´... etc... coz was aleady a TLDR & the post was limited to 10 gifs, meanwile, makin´ gifs takes time).
You? You had no real rebuttals, only generalizations & random youtube vidz to help your case and allow ya to skip any legit technical assessment.
Gonna be sincere with ya, mate:
1- Ya have limited knowledge about that transitional era, and globally, no historical perspective.
2- Knowin´that, ya tried to 'bluff' this thread with that Arona fight.
3- Ya tried to go full 'Volk Han' about that Arona fight... Well, let me tell ya: if ya dont know about the context [Volk Han, Maeda, Nikolai Pitkov, Zouev]
Saving face my ass, I read all your shitty posts only to scroll down the last one (and fuck that was hard to do).
I was taking you seriously so I was being polite to you instead to giving you the GTFO right away.
I should have done that as soon as you quoted me.
Don't even dare to quote me ever again, you are a legit mental case.
A mental case with shitty grammar.
lmao... Ya know, mate.that´s what I truly love in this forum: when the dude´s completely owned, has absolutely no rebuttals on technical sequences & skill sets... watchin´him crumblin´, meltin´... goin´ full ad hominem...
"Don't even dare to quote me ever again"
Ya´re not qualified to talk about that Arona fight, dude... Ya wouldnt even recognize Zouev or Pitkov...
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