good karate techniques

[JohnPJones]

@AndyMaBobs

is this, or is this not, taking the same exact thing, but with the roles reversed?

A kyokushin guy has some muay thai fights, teaches 5 year olds the very basics of muay thai/day care and hires a muay thai instructor to teach anything beyond his capabilities/more serious older age class? What a mcdojo!! How dare he teach 5 year olds the basics! What does a kyokushin guy that fought muay thai know about fighting muay thai? Surely not enough to teach 5 year olds the basics such as the stance. That takes 10 years of training! And he can't even speak thai or do the wai khru! What a huge disrespect to muay thai. What a mcdojo!

you keep forgetting about the video you shared as your inspiration that had nothing to do with karate or any other martial art except that they were wearing a gi...and why not just let the karate instructor teach all of the karate?

 

[JohnPJones]

Also tenshin nasukawa has a good record in MT fights but as far as I am aware, he never actually trained MT, does that mean he’s qualified to teach MT just because he can adapted his karate and kickboxing experience to that ruleset?

 

[shincheckin]

you keep forgetting about the video you shared as your inspiration that had nothing to do with karate or any other martial art except that they were wearing a gi...and why not just let the karate instructor teach all of the karate?

you keep forgetting all kinds of shit, such as the things you brought up now, that i have already answered. quit asking me the same questions and learn how to read.

 

[shincheckin]

Also tenshin nasukawa has a good record in MT fights but as far as I am aware, he never actually trained MT, does that mean he’s qualified to teach MT just because he can adapted his karate and kickboxing experience to that ruleset?

yes it does, hes much more qualified than someone who never fought it but knows the wai khru, can speak thai, and knows how to say elbow in thai.

I previously mentioned andy hug with just that example bud

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Also tenshin nasukawa has a good record in MT fights but as far as I am aware, he never actually trained MT, does that mean he’s qualified to teach MT just because he can adapted his karate and kickboxing experience to that ruleset?

Tenshin trained Muay Thai not as much as Chatri Sityodtong would have you believe, but he has

 

[JohnPJones]

Tenshin trained Muay Thai not as much as Chatri Sityodtong would have you believe, but he has

thanks for the correction, how long did he train? I’ve found nothing referencing MT training

 

[shincheckin]

Nah I don't think so. Not in regards to speaking Thai and Ram Muay - as they're not part of the syllabus of the martial art, whereas Kata large in part informs how a karateka will move.

As for the rest of it, my question would be why can the Muay Thai instructor not also teach the childrens Muay Thai class? Surely that would be something you would work out during scheduling.

he could, although it would be an extra expense.

my question to you is, why cant the kyokushin guy, that fought and knows muay thai, teach the very basics in the childrens class?

 

[JohnPJones]

yes it does, hes much more qualified than someone who never fought it but knows the wai khru, can speak thai, and knows how to say elbow in thai.

I previously mentioned andy hug with just that example bud

youre confusing teaching people to fight vs teaching a martial art.
If the only goal is to teach people to fight it doesn’t matter what style is taught as long as it’s easily adapted to the ruleset.

You maybe 100% qualified to teach someone how to fight, doesn’t mean you’re qualified to teach people how to fight via karate.

I still don’t get why you just don’t teach a kids MT class. Moms who just want to pay someone to take care of their kid for an hour or so will still throw their money at you so they can go on tinder dates.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

he could, although it would be an extra expense.

my question to you is, why cant the kyokushin guy, that fought and knows muay thai, teach the very basics in the childrens class?

but wouldn't you be paying him anyway?

Also - in fairness it depends on his level of technique - but for me I and the main kids coach who I learned to teach from put a lot a of time and energy into making sure our kids were not just learning the basics but were learning to put them into practise. We didn't just teach them the basic techniques, we would have 5 rounds of clinching (1 minute at a time) inbetween drills along with specific instruction on how to keep proper distance and how to select their shots for the maximum scoring in Muay Thai.

Our kids class wasn't just a basics class, we have kids with over 5 fights, and have a very high standard of technical ability. I cannot take credit for that, as I came much later in most of these kids development - but I wouldn't like the idea of a guy teaching that class unless he had a strong understanding of Muay Thai.

If this Kyokushin guy was @Tayski as an example of somebody I know who I have seen fight - and I know has a lot of interest and understanding of the Muay Thai game I would be less sceptical - but otherwise. No I would not be comfortable with it, especially not when I could have that same person teach kyokushin to them.

 

[shincheckin]

youre confusing teaching people to fight vs teaching a martial art.
If the only goal is to teach people to fight it doesn’t matter what style is taught as long as it’s easily adapted to the ruleset.

You maybe 100% qualified to teach someone how to fight, doesn’t mean you’re qualified to teach people how to fight via karate.

I still don’t get why you just don’t teach a kids MT class. Moms who just want to pay someone to take care of their kid for an hour or so will still throw their money at you so they can go on tinder dates.

i agree with you, but moms wont do it for MT class, they will do it for karate class. this is why it must be called karate. Its part of american culture now, and again we have already had this discussion and I have already explained to you why it needs to be called karate and not moo tie. because if its moo tie mommy wont drop timmy off, if its karate mommy will. mommy doenst know what moo tie is, or what moo tie in a gi is, but she does know what karate is........and again i have explained this to you already.

 

[shincheckin]

but wouldn't you be paying him anyway?

Also - in fairness it depends on his level of technique - but for me I and the main kids coach who I learned to teach from put a lot a of time and energy into making sure our kids were not just learning the basics but were learning to put them into practise. We didn't just teach them the basic techniques, we would have 5 rounds of clinching (1 minute at a time) inbetween drills along with specific instruction on how to keep proper distance and how to select their shots for the maximum scoring in Muay Thai.

Our kids class wasn't just a basics class, we have kids with over 5 fights, and have a very high standard of technical ability. I cannot take credit for that, as I came much later in most of these kids development - but I wouldn't like the idea of a guy teaching that class unless he had a strong understanding of Muay Thai.

If this Kyokushin guy was @Tayski as an example of somebody I know who I have seen fight - and I know has a lot of interest and understanding of the Muay Thai game I would be less sceptical - but otherwise. No I would not be comfortable with it, especially not when I could have that same person teach kyokushin to them.

people are paid per class, so more classes equals more money. so yeah he would be getting paid for a class already but not this class, unless i decided to add it, so hes now being paid for 2 classes instead of 1 so yeah its a extra expense.

and everyone always seems to forget the age group of the class I am talking about. a very young kids class, like ages 3-7. as I said before, the main goal of the kids class so young, is to stop them from eating their boogers.

Everything you just mentioned about what you do for your kids classes, what was the age group? I am going to make the guess older than ages 3-7.

Its difficult enough to get 10 yr olds to take muay thai training serious enough to learn anything, let alone even younger kids.

this is not happening for children ages 3-7, they dont have the mental capacity:
"kids were not just learning the basics but were learning to put them into practise. We didn't just teach them the basic techniques, we would have 5 rounds of clinching (1 minute at a time) inbetween drills along with specific instruction on how to keep proper distance and how to select their shots for the maximum scoring in Muay Thai"

in b4 someone posts badass 7 yr old thai kids........................thats different and we all know it. homeless child taken in by gym with opportunity to fight for a living vs litte timmy getting dropped off by soccer mom.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

people are paid per class, so more classes equals more money. so yeah he would be getting paid for a class already but not this class, unless i decided to add it, so hes now being paid for 2 classes instead of 1 so yeah its a extra expense.

and everyone always seems to forget the age group of the class I am talking about. a very young kids class, like ages 3-7. as I said before, the main goal of the kids class so young, is to stop them from eating their boogers.

Everything you just mentioned about what you do for your kids classes, what was the age group? I am going to make the guess older than ages 3-7.

Its difficult enough to get 10 yr olds to take muay thai training serious enough to learn anything, let alone even younger kids.

this is not happening for children ages 3-7, they dont have the mental capacity:
"kids were not just learning the basics but were learning to put them into practise. We didn't just teach them the basic techniques, we would have 5 rounds of clinching (1 minute at a time) inbetween drills along with specific instruction on how to keep proper distance and how to select their shots for the maximum scoring in Muay Thai"

Karate is usually a mixed age class. Unless you specifically wanted an adults only karate class you wouldn't need to split it. At least that's how it's always worked over here since I've been around.

You're quite right they were older than 3-7. My class was 6 at the youngest, 15 at the oldest, and the kids averaged about the 9-12 range. We refuse to take them any younger than 6 because they don't recognise that they have to listen to adults other than their parents at that age.

 

[shincheckin]

Karate is usually a mixed age class. Unless you specifically wanted an adults only karate class you wouldn't need to split it. At least that's how it's always worked over here since I've been around.

You're quite right they were older than 3-7. My class was 6 at the youngest, 15 at the oldest, and the kids averaged about the 9-12 range. We refuse to take them any younger than 6 because they don't recognise that they have to listen to adults other than their parents at that age.

exactly so were comparing apples to oranges. awesome that you teach 15 yr olds muay thai differenlty than the way you would teach 5 year olds muay thai.....you see my point? this age group thing is something everyone always overlooks.

the way you taught your muay thai class (more serious) is what the hired instructor would be for, for the older kids class.

yes I would have the classes split, I am not going to have a 12 yr old with a real interest in learning something, training along side a 5 yr old eating his boogers.

So you can see, when everything is clearly explained, everyone pretty much agrees with me and is on board with the idea, and it really not being such a bad thing......but despite me clearly explaining it mutliple times, it is never clearly understood and misintepreted, such as the age thing.


ok guys its time for 5 3x1 on the pads followed by 3 rounds of clinching and 3 rounds of sparring...........that is a how a real muay thai class should be ran!!!..............but maybe not for 5 year olds.

so let me again ask you, why cant a kyokushin guy, that has fought muay thai, teach a basics muay thai class to kids age 3-7? I do not see a problem with that at all. but when the roles are reversed, its a mcdojo!!!

 

[AndyMaBobs]

exactly so were comparing apples to oranges. awesome that you teach 15 yr olds muay thai differenlty than the way you would teach 5 year olds muay thai.....you see my point? this age group thing is something everyone always overlooks.

the way you taught your muay thai class (more serious) is what the hired instructor would be for, for the older kids class.

yes I would have the classes split, I am not going to have a 12 yr old with a real interest in learning something, training along side a 5 yr old eating his boogers.

So you can see, when everything is clearly explained, everyone pretty much agrees with me and is on board with the idea, and it really not being such a bad thing......but despite me clearly explaining it mutliple times, it is never clearly understood and misintepreted, such as the age thing.


ok guys its time for 5 3x1 on the pads followed by 3 rounds of clinching and 3 rounds of sparring...........that is a how a real muay thai class should be ran!!!..............but maybe not for 5 year olds.

so let me again ask you, why cant a kyokushin guy, that has fought muay thai, teach a basics muay thai class to kids age 3-7? I do not see a problem with that at all. but when the roles are reversed, its a mcdojo!!!

I think you're running with the 15 year old. Like I said the majority of our students were around 9-11 as well as 6 year olds. I definitely agree that under 6 year olds would be more difficult which is why I personally won't take them. I don't think it's question of not being understood, so much as it is some just aren't agreeing.

I don't think it's the end of the world by any means, I'm not even really calling you out for it. I can just understand where the guys that have dedicated a huge part of their life to karate would be offended by it. I think that you think that I have more of an issue with this than I do.

I mean unless you had two classes running at the same time (Thai and Karate) and you were doing the standard mixed age karate class I don't see why you couldn't be the assistant karate instructor for the jrs.

But like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I agreed with you on maybe having a kickboxing class in a jacket to appeal to the parents, while teaching the stuff you are more familiar with.

 

[shincheckin]

But like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I agreed with you on maybe having a kickboxing class in a jacket to appeal to the parents, while teaching the stuff you are more familiar with.

thats part of it, but it must be called karate, not moo tie or kickboxing in a jacket. and so as not to make it total bs i plan to both learn and compete in karate.

i can also understand how guys can get offended by it, but a huge part of that offense is misunderstanding. No I dont plant to call myself grand master ninja and teach teens or adults. But I dont see anything wrong with a guy who fought karate, teaching karate basics to extremely young kids thats little more than daycare. He should be more than qualified to do that. So yeah, myself head karate instructor for kids ages 3-7, and the hired instructor for ages 8+, I feel that model is fair and logical and not a scam, and not screwing karate over in any way. Anyone that has had a amatuer boxing fights, is capable of teaching the very basics of boxing for kids ages 3-7.

you have never had a muay thai fight right? yet you are a muay thai coach. So sure maybe you cant coach someone to be a lumpinee champ, but your more than capable of coaching children.....and even adults for that matter. I dont see anyting wrong with that. if someone knows how to do something, they can teach others how to do it.

so if i plan to both learn and figh karate, i dont see a problem with me teaching children, and not just any children, very very young children.

I know theres alot more "shit" to karate which is why the hired instructor is for.

I serisously cannot understand the outrage of a guy that fougth karate, teaching the very basics, to 5 year olds............makes no sense at all.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

you have never had a muay thai fight right? yet you are a muay thai coach. So sure maybe you cant coach someone to be a lumpinee champ, but your more than capable of coaching children.....and even adults for that matter. I dont see anyting wrong with that. if someone knows how to do something, they can teach others how to do it.

Yup that's correct - I haven't fought. Teaching and fighting are two different skillsets though, maybe I could one day coach someone to be lumpinee champ if I stayed the course and made sure I kept honing my skills as a teacher. Most of the coaches to world class championship fighters weren't world champions themselves.

Which is why I'm not too concerned if someone fights or not in regards to their teaching. For me it's about how well they can explain, analyse and correct.

I'd actually say teaching beginners is harder than teaching experienced guys. When I've worked with experienced guys they already come from a place of knowing roughly what you're on about. The newbies (as you know) have little to no clue.

 

[shincheckin]

Yup that's correct - I haven't fought. Teaching and fighting are two different skillsets though, maybe I could one day coach someone to be lumpinee champ if I stayed the course and made sure I kept honing my skills as a teacher. Most of the coaches to world class championship fighters weren't world champions themselves.

Which is why I'm not too concerned if someone fights or not in regards to their teaching. For me it's about how well they can explain, analyse and correct.

I'd actually say teaching beginners is harder than teaching experienced guys. When I've worked with experienced guys they already come from a place of knowing roughly what you're on about. The newbies (as you know) have little to no clue.

yeah but now we have jumped ship. Im not arguing your coaching skills or abilities, or that coaching and fighting ARENT two different things, or that a great fighter doesnt mean hes a great coach, etc.......i agree with all the things you stated.

The point of my previous post, was that your capable of coaching muay thai.

just as I am capable of coaching the basics of karate to kids 3-7 after I fight karate, because surely someone who has fought karate, must know at least the very basics. And if he knows those very basics, he should be able to teach what he knows, to children

ohhh the outrage! how dare someone fight muay thai and then teach the basics of muay thai to kids age 3-7, what a imposter. What does he know!

 

[AndyMaBobs]

yeah but now we have jumped ship. Im not arguing your coaching skills or abilities, or that coaching and fighting ARENT two different things, or that a great fighter doesnt mean hes a great coach, etc.......i agree with all the things you stated.

The point of my previous post, was that your capable of coaching muay thai.

just as I am capable of coaching the basics of karate to kids 3-7 after I fight karate, because surely someone who has fought karate, must know at least the very basics. And if he knows those very basics, he should be able to teach what he knows, to children

ohhh the outrage! how dare someone fight muay thai and then teach the basics of muay thai to kids age 3-7, what a imposter. What does he know!

Nah I'm not saying you're questioning my credentials. I was just furthering the conversation - as I'm not sure what fighting has to do with teaching jrs either. Especially when there's a good chance that you could go in there and mow someone down on the grounds that you're an experienced fighter in general, rather than because you understand karate.

 

[shincheckin]

Nah I'm not saying you're questioning my credentials. I was just furthering the conversation - as I'm not sure what fighting has to do with teaching jrs either. Especially when there's a good chance that you could go in there and mow someone down on the grounds that you're an experienced fighter in general, rather than because you understand karate.

this is what pisses me off about these karate threads is this. My intent behind the karate jrs class is genuine.

I dont plan to just slap kids in a gi and call it karate, I plan to not only learn but also compete in karate, to give myself some credentials, so that I am not just throwing kids in a gi and calling it karate, rather I have some actual knowledge and experience in karate..........now how deep is that karate knowledge of mine going to be, not very deep, more along the lines of beginner, which is why i plan to only teach the basics to very young kids.......and hire a instructor for anything further than that.

so i am showing respect etc for karate, and still being treated like shit for it. I am treated as if I plan to never learn or fight karate and label myself a blackbelt and open a karate school. Which reminds me of another thing thats always over looked, its not a karate school, its a MT gym with a small karate program..........big difference.

at the end of the day all this is really making me want to do is hurry up and have some kyokushin fights and shove it in everyones face.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

this is what pisses me off about these karate threads is this. My intent behind the karate jrs class is genuine.

I dont plan to just slap kids in a gi and call it karate, I plan to not only learn but also compete in karate, to give myself some credentials, so that I am not just throwing kids in a gi and calling it karate, rather I have some actual knowledge and experience in karate..........now how deep is that karate knowledge of mine going to be, not very deep, more along the lines of beginner, which is why i plan to only teach the basics to very young kids.......and hire a instructor for anything further than that.

so i am showing respect etc for karate, and still being treated like shit for it.

at the end of the day all this is really making me want to do is hurry up and have some kyokushin fights and shove it in everyones face.

I don't think people are getting annoyed because you want to learn karate and teach karate.

It's clear to me that you are genuinely interested in it. I mean by all means go ahead, learn karate, get your black belt and engross yourself in it - that's why I recommended WKO gym if it was financially feasible for you. I'm genuinely rooting for you to take up a new martial art get a new experience and learn more - but can you understand why your plan might upset people?